Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

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Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#1  Post by Robaltap » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:51 pm

Hello,

I've started the thread some time ago about low hemoglobin, wich was the issue of my grandmother & again would like to thank everyone that answered the questions there...
However, I've got couple of other questions now, since unfortunately my grandmother had two heart attacks recently (she is 83 years old) & then after all the tests in the hospital found out that she has serious calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels. So could anyone here please write what amounts of vitamin C is needed in such case? Are there any recommendations with other vitamins & nutrients?

By the way, she was taking vitamin complex of D3+K2 (1000IU of D3 & 90mcg of K2, twice a day) before the attacks & now I also wonder if it could worsen her condition (I mean could D taken with K2 still take the calcium out of tissues, bones & make it into the blood)? I see from other topic here, that vitamin K2 is crucial in cases of calcium in arteries, so if she should take it, then what is the dose? And also - can vitamin K2 make the blood thiker, so it can become the problem for elder people with such heart issues?

What she takes now is B-100 complex 2-3 times a day, vitamin C 2500mg twice a day, Magnesium 250mg twice a day (should we raise that?), niacinamide of about 125mg a day (& will increase) & will soon also take CoQ10 (600mg a day) & taurine (we are waiting for the package). She also takes medications that was prescribed (including blood thinners).

Will be grateful for any information on this. Thank you!

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:38 am

What kind of heart attacks? What are her medications? You mention blood thinners, and most oppose vitamin K and thus lead to rapid calcification of soft tissues.

How long has she been taking the vitamin K2?

On page 125 of Dr. Levy's DEATH BY CALCIUM under vitamin K dosage recommendations, he has the surprising recommendation of 45 MILLIGRAMS daily in three separate 15 mg dosages of vitamin K2 (MK-4). (This in contrast to 200 MICROGRAMS of Vitamin K2 (MK-7).)
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#3  Post by Robaltap » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:29 am

Her diagnosis:
Coronary heart disease, Recurrent infarction ('myocardial' is not written, but I guess it's the same thing?) without Q apical-lateral(/side/flank) region
Postinfarction cardiosclerosis
Complications: Chronic heart failure I, Functional classification II, Paroxysm of atrial fibrillation (paroxysmal AF)
Concomitants: Chronic Anemia, mild degree of severity

Medications she takes:
Cardiomagnyl (acetylsalicylic acid + Magnesium hydroxide)
Clopidogrel-Teva (Clopidogrel)
Nebilet (Nebivolol)
Preductal MR (Trimetazidine)
Lozap (Losartan)
Isoket (Isosorbide dinitrate) (spray, only when the pulse is very high)

She has been taking D3+K2 complex for about 3 months. This one: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitami ... rry-flavor

We would give her K2 in the mentioned doses from Dr. Levy's book, but there's concern about vitamin K blood thickening properties - can this be the problem with such heart issues & in her age? Especially if we are going to exclude the blood thinning medications - won't vitamin K cause rapid blood clotting & thickening then?
Thank you!

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:07 pm

First of all, she’s not taking a Blood thinner per se but she is taking Clopidogrel (Plavix) which is a what is known as a anti platelet drug. In plain language they grease up the blood cells so they can’t stick together. They have no dependency on K vitamins or D vitamins. Therefore she is Ok to use K2 and D3 without worry. Her arms and legs will still bruise like they do now when she bumps them. In fact there is a greater risk of reaction between the beta blocker (Nebivolol) she’s taking then the vitamins.

Now on her heart valve I covered this quite a bit in a lot of prior posts.
When you get on this site click the “Search” word on top and when the search screen pops up Enter “Aortic Valve” in the keyword block and “Johnwen” in author block and hit the search button and you should get about 10 hits. Read them!

In her case I believe her infarctions are being caused by debris from the
stenotic valve breaking off and becoming lodged in one of the hearts arteries.
When reading those prior posts you’ll see that the ostium (junction) of these arteries are right at the valve and are fed by retrograde blood flow. This sloshing of the debris on the valve can break loose and go right into the coronary arteries and become lodged causing the attack and then they dissipate into smaller pieces and become lodged in the smaller vessels doing less harm but none the less harm to the cells that depend on that blood flow. Other times they just get absorbed and leaves the docs scratching their heads trying to figure out what happened and where they went.

Another problem is her age at 82 and probably not in the best of health to under go a chest cracking. This leaves her with TAVR (Trans catheter Aortic Valve Replacement). Which is a valve that’s pushed into place like a stent is placed in a artery. Problem is now that they been on the market for a few years some have been having problems with sealing. St. Judes Portico is being recalled right now for leakage problems. They were the big Boys in TAVR’s.

Your probably thinking that, “this debris can be removed,” but I think after reading those prior posts you’ll see it’s not that easy!

Some questions: Did they do a Echo on her if so do you have her AVA reading? Like to know EF reading also.
Is she or has she taken Calcium supplements recently?
Did she take any Statins prior to this?

I wish her luck and Don’t stop the Vitamin C!!!!
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#5  Post by Robaltap » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:31 pm

Thank you very much for the respond! I've searched “Aortic Valve” & author “Johnwen” as you've mentioned & reading everything right now, very usefull (and worrying) information... I have her Echo & will see if there's AVA & EF, will provide it in the next post.

Just wanted to ask last one question on K2, sorry, but I just want to be 100% sure on that - the doctors here always say that in her age one should always take some blood thinning medications since blood becomes more thiker with age & will develop problems with heart etc - I just wonder if I understood everything right that this kind of information is a myth & she can freely take as much K2 as it's mentioned in Dr. Levy's book, in milligrams, without any problems with blood thikening & clotting (not only concerning medications interference with K2, but just in general, it's blood thikening properties & her age)?

There's also two medications that was prescribed but we decided not to take them yet, since there are some concerns about them:
1. Atorvastatin (trade name "Liprimar") - 40mg - was prescribed to lower her cholesterol, however the tests show than her cholesterol is ok, plus I've just read that this medication is actually a calcium salt.
2. Zofenopril (trade name "Zocardis") - 1/4 of tablet of 7,5mg - was prescribed to dissolve plaques & to lower the blood pressure, however she's always had moderate or even (most of the time) low blood pressure.
So I wonder if we did it right by not taking these now?
Thank you!

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:43 pm

Here’s some short detail’s on these meds. By the names it sounds like your in a European country.

Cardiomagnyl (acetylsalicylic acid + Magnesium hydroxide)
Prescription form of Asprin and magnesium. About 3 times more expensive if you bought the two in supplement form. Has some blood thinning effects but bottom line it’s a mild anti platelet. No effect with K2 or D3!

Clopidogrel-Teva (Clopidogrel)
Plavix in the US. This is a anti platelet med. Not a Blood thinner

Nebilet (Nebivolol)
Bystolic in the US. It’s a Beta-Blocker which slows the heart rate and reduces the contraction force of the heart muscle. Which also reduces blood pressure.

Preductal MR (Trimetazidine)
Vastarel MR in the US. Is a anti anginal med which increases the use of glucose in the tissues of the heart muscle by preventing fatty acid oxidation.
New kid on the block here is Ranexa which beside doing the same thing also blocks calcium channels by altering the sodium channels. (HMMM calcium blockage in the heart?)

Lozap (Losartan)
Cozaar in the US. Is a BP med known as a ARB (angiogenesis II receptor blocker) Which is a BP Med used to lower blood pressure.

Isoket (Isosorbide dinitrate)
Is Nitro glycerin used as a direct vasodilator it’s the fast acting, short lasting version that lasts about 4 hours after use. It’s brother Isosorbide Mononitrate ER is the long lasting version. Used to threat angina or vasospasms.

Atorvastatin (Liprimar)
Lipitor in the US. Is a statin which is used around the world to make drug companies Rich! It has a “number needed to threat,” of 72. Which means if 72 people take it, 1 in the 72 will be prevented from having a coronary event. 71 will have an event. It’s good shes NOT taking it. No Guarantee she’ll be the 1!!!!

Zofenopril ("Zocardis")
This is a angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor with cardioprotective properties. It’s a BP med. If her Bp is ok with what shes taking, why take it??

Another thing I wanted to make a point on, Is her Paroxysmal atrial fibrillation.
Paroxysmal is a fancy way of saying random. This is a common occurrence with a stenotic valve because the heart can’t eject all of the blood in it due to the reduced size of the valve and the backpressure in the heart causes the atrium to quiver. Since it’s random this is usually an indicator that the stenosis is not to the point where immediate attention is needed. If they increase in time and length she will end up on warfarin which is a BLOOD THINNER and be looking at a corrective procedure.

Once I see her AVA I’ll have a better idea what kind of range she is in. However I’m not to happy about her infarcts which are not good!

Hope this helps! YES! She is OK on the meds she is on right now to go ahead with the K2 and D3 protocol. I see your also giving her magnesium supplement along with the Cardiomagnyl which has Mag. In it. Which is OK if she’s not running to the bathroom because of it. If it sends her running back off on the Mag. Supplement.
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:00 am

Note there are 2 forms of vitamin K2 - and it is the MK4 form that Dr. Levy recommends 45 mg.
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:46 am

In the following linked article I found some things that I haven’t seen after monitoring INR of patients on Warfarin. They say that K2 (mk7) can change the action of these blood thinners and MK4 won’t. This is something I have not observed. However some people taking MK7 have had some skin reactions which I haven’t seen in MK4. Anyway here a pretty good understanding of what K does and don’t do .

But first here’s what WIKI says:

Vitamin K is absorbed along with dietary fat from the small intestine and transported by chylomicrons in the circulation. Most of vitamin K1 is carried by triacylglycerol-rich lipoproteins (TRL) and rapidly cleared by the liver; only a small amount is released into the circulation and carried by LDL and HDL. MK-4 is carried by the same lipoproteins (TRL, LDL, and HDL) and cleared fast as well. The long-chain menaquinones are absorbed in the same way as vitamin K1 and MK-4, but are efficiently redistributed by the liver in predominantly LDL (VLDL). Since LDL has a long half life in the circulation, these menaquinones can circulate for extended times resulting in higher bioavailability for extra-hepatic tissues as compared to vitamin K1 and MK-4. Accumulation of vitamin K in extra-hepatic tissues has direct relevance to vitamin K functions not related to hemostasis.


Put your reading glasses on this is a long one! Here’s the link:

http://www.jlr.org/content/55/3/345.full
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#9  Post by Robaltap » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:30 pm

The information on medications and vintamin K2 is very usefull, I will read the long article, thank you both!

She hasn't taken Calcium supplements recently (but her diet included dairy products, we excluded it now) & I'm sure she took some medicine prior the infarctions (I will see what was it exactly), but not so much as she was taking vitamins since january of this year and felt very good, much better than before vitamins.

Here is her Echo (I believe that AVA and EF is included, if not - please let me know, I see the papers & provide any information that is needed):
----------
Acoustic access satisfactory.

Aorta - 34 mm

Ascending aorta - 33 mm

Aortic valve opening - 21 mm

Left atrium - 47х49 mm

Interventricular septum - 9 mm, superior third 14 mm

Posterior wall of left ventricle - 10 mm

Right ventricule - 19 mm

Right atrium - 35х39 mm

Pulmonary artery (diameter) - 24 mm


Left ventricular end-diastolic dimension - 5,4 cm

Left ventricular end-systolic dimension - 3,8 cm

End-diastolic volume - 141 ml

End-systolic volume - 63 ml

Stroke volume - 78 ml

Ejection fraction - 55% (by Teichholz)

/\S - 29% (I don't know how to write it, it's typed as triangle and "S")


Aorta walls thickened

Retractive function of LV myocardium is satisfactory

Asynergy zones detected: akinesia of basilateral, middle lateral segments

Inferior vena cava is not changed, on the inhale decreases more than 50%

Fluid in the Pleural cavity is not detected

Fluid in the Pericardial cavity is not detected


Heart valve apparatus:

Aortic valve: cusps fibrous thickened, calcification of the base of the cusps, calcification of left coronary cusp detected 5-10% PGAV 4,5 mm Hg

Mitral valve: 30-40% PGMV 2,2 mm Hg

Tricuspid valve: Regurgitation is absent

Pulmonary valve: No peculiarities, regurgitation is absent

Signs of diastolic dysfunction of left ventricule are absent

calcification in the base of the anterior papillary muscle


Conclusion:

Atherosclerotic changes of the walls of the aorta, left fibrous AV ring, aortic valve cusps.

calcification of aortic valve I degree. Left atrial dilation.

Moderate hypertrophy in superior third of the interventricular septum. Contractile ability of LV myocardium is satisfactory.

Akinesia of basilateral, middle lateral segments.

Mild aortic, moderate mitral insufficiency.
----------

I've also recommended to eliminate sugar (including honey) & nightshades, but this is damn hard to do.

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#10  Post by Johnwen » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:10 pm

Let’s get some definitions and problems out of the way.
To get a ▲ is real simple:
In your word processor or on the forum. Using the number keypad on the right of the keyboard. (make sure numbers lock is ON) Press “ALT” and punch in 30 let go of “ALT”. You then have a ▲!!!

Now the hard part what does this mean. ready??
Triangle of dysplasia in arrhythmogenic right ventricular dysplasia (ARVD).
Real simple answer to what it is! It’s the amount of muscle that has broken down an becoming fatty tissue.
I’ll let the computer explain it rather then writing a book. Here’s some links for better understanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhythmog ... _dysplasia

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2006/0415/p1391.html

The pressure gradient across her valves is good and a EF of 53% is excellent given her age and heart attack history. Valve area has not been affected by stenotic build up as of yet. However she’s getting a lot of muscle breakdown which is degrading to fatty tissue which is probably what the build up on her valve is. It appears your working on this problem Early which is good which also means you have a good chance of reversing it. Other then that it’s a pretty good report for a 82 year old.

I like the call the Heart the “Weight Lifter,” in your chest. Let’s take a person who has lifted weight’s and worked out and watch his diet and supplements all his life and all of a sudden STOP’s Lifting and working out and intake. What happens now?? Well he’ll do well for about 2 or 3 month’s. Then the pains will start which is the first sign of the muscles breaking down and as time goes by he’ll turn into a hurting glob of fat and things will start falling apart. I’ve seen Regressing Muscle Heads in their 40’s with heart reports much worst then your gram has.
That’s why I believe you gram was a very active lady till old age started catching up to her and she backed down a lot. Now we can’t change that but what we can do is help get what it takes to help her.

Your K2 plan is excellent and don’t stop this what we need to do is get with her doc and see if he’ll get her off of the Nebilet (Nebivolol) which is a Beta Blocker which weakens the hearts contraction force (ie Makes the weight Lifter WEAK) NOTE: You cannot just stop a beta-blocker drug a person must Titrated off of it over a period of 2-3 weeks. So don’t just Stop It!!!!

See if he can then add a Calcium Channel blocker. Like Procardia
(Nifedipine) in EU I believe it’s called “ADALAT”

Next get her up to the highest dose possible of Pauling Therapy and don’t stop or skip a single day!!!

Get some Protein drinks, shake’s or whatever supplemental form available where your at. If her weight is between 100 and 150 Lbs (45kg to 65kg)
She needs 25 grams of protein per day.

Get some Astaxanthin 4mg. One a day. For glucose control.

Like you said “Cut the CARBS and Sugars!!” Where looking for about a 1lbs.(.46kg) drop in morning weight every 2 or 3 weeks. This is a good indicator that she’s burning body fat.

Keep intake calories around 2000. Adjust for weight loss or gain as above.

Lots of water!

I know it sounds complex but it’s not all that hard, just takes patience.
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#11  Post by purposefirst » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:32 pm

On page 125 of Dr. Levy's DEATH BY CALCIUM under vitamin K dosage recommendations, he has the surprising recommendation of 45 MILLIGRAMS daily in three separate 15 mg dosages of vitamin K2 (MK-4). (This in contrast to 200 MICROGRAMS of Vitamin K2 (MK-7).)


I had been taking Carlson K2 (MK4) capsules, 5mg x 3/day (as per their recommended usage). After researching various alternatives, I settled on Thorne Research in liquid form. My research suggests that it should be an excellent product, but I only just started on it. Incidentally it is the only product I found that actually suggests a very high dosage -- EXACTLY the same as what Dr. Levy recommends. But you would have precise control of each dose because one drop = 1 mg. It costs $62 per bottle, which supplies 80 doses of 15mg. (But that x 3 means 27 day supply.)

I'm doing a little less than full recommendation, as the full seems so much higher than what everyone else is recommending. Also, in another of Dr. Levy's book, Stop America's #1 Killer, Dr. Levy himself recommends "only" 3-9mg/day of MK4. I'm treating atherosclerosis, not osteoporosis. I'm also taking one dose/day of MK7 90mcg (Jarrow).

As I recall, the half life of MK4 in the body is only a few hours, while the MK7 is about a couple days. (But check me on that.)

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#12  Post by Robaltap » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:46 am

Johnwen wrote:


Johnwen, thank you very much for all the information! We'll try to follow everything you've wrote.
(Btw, About the triangle ▲ - don't know if it's crucial, but the one in the tests is hollow :) just thought I'd better mention that.)

You are right - her weight is 119 Lbs & she was very active till old age. We'll try to get Calcium Channel blocker & get off Nebilet (Nebivolol), she takes 1/4 of 5mg tablet once a day, so it's 1,25mg.

She takes vitamin C every day, and if her pulse start to speed up (it happens from time to time, like 1-2 times in every 3 days & it goes up to 100-120 heartbeats per minute) we give her extra 2500-5000mg of vitamin C, it seems that it helps a lot.

Is it ok if she'll take Astaxanthin 5mg a day instead of 4mg? I just couldn't find the 4mg supplement that will be free of fillers we don't want her to take & bought 5mg.

She also takes B-12, 5000mcg (Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12) once a day & B-12 Patch (http://www.vitasciences.com/B12patch) once a week, but now I've read some interesting information about different types of B-12 & thinking of switching to Dibencozide (Adenosylcobalamin) (or just rotate it with Methylcobalamin) since it has some benefits with hemoglobin etc. I would be very appreciated if you have any advice on this & Potassium deficiency that may be caused by B-12 (is it true?).

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#13  Post by Robaltap » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:50 am

Damn, all these ingredients in vitamins drives me crazy. First I've found out recently that D+K complex contains calcium silicate & niacinamide has 29mg of calcium in each tablet, so recently she was taking 97mg of calcium from it a day :(

Now I've found out that B-100 complex she was taking since january has Pantothenic Acid as d-calcium pantothenate & also there's mention of dicalcium phosphate in 'other ingredients'. Could please anyone write how crucial/bad is that & did I cause any harm to my grandmother with this B-100 supplement & boosted her calcification? :cry:

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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:44 pm

Maybe not ideal, but if that is all the calcium, I don't see a big deal. Nature's "natural" calcium-channel blocker is magnesium, so if mg is not on her supplement list - you should add it.
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Re: Calcification of aortic valve & blood vessels

Post Number:#15  Post by Robaltap » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:05 am

Yes, she takes magnesium 250mg twice a day. Thank you for the respond! We will change D+K complex to one without calcium, same with niacinamide. As For B-100, I can try to find it without calcium in 'other ingredients', but it looks like it always has pantothenic acid in the form of d-calcium pantothenate. And from past experience we know that my grandmother will loose her appetite without B-100 supplement, so we have to decide & choose what is worse (no B-100 with calcium & no appetite or B-100 with calcium & good appetite).


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