Need help with BP & Cholesterol

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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bsaudio
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Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#1  Post by bsaudio » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:15 pm

Hi - looking for help on lowering BP & Cholesterol. Have been following Pauling Therapy since February, 2012.

Male, 42, 195 lbs.

Currently taking:

Tower A9 - 2 scoops
Vit C - 12 grams
Lysine - 2 grams
Chelated Magnesium - 200 mg
CoQ10 Ubiquinol - 200 mg
Fish Oil Sup - 980mg omega 3
Vit A - 25000 iu
Vit D3 - 2000 iu
Unique E - 400 iu
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate - 100 mg
Jarrow B-Right - 1 ea
Super K - 1 ea
Phosphatidylserine - 200 mg
MultiVitamin - 1 ea
Lyc-O-Mato Tomato Lycopene Complex - 2 ea
Healthy Origins MegaNatural-BP Grape Seed Extract - 1 ea
Jarrow Joint Builder - Glucosamine, MSM, Hyaluronic Acid
Jarrow JarroSil Silicon
(these last 2 Jarrow supplements are for an aching lower disk and foot joint, and do provide relief)

Doc has me on 10mg Lisinopril each day.

My current blood tests revealed:
Cholesterol - 229
LDL - 157
HDL - 45
Non-HDL - 184
LDL/HDL Ratio -3.49
Chol/HDL Ratio - 5.09

Last blood test was 18 months ago, and my numbers have worsened by about 20 points.

Blood pressure is strange -- it peaks between 10am and 2:30pm each and every day. Usually peaks around 128/82. From 2:30pm to 10am it is under 120/80. Not taking the Lisinopril raises my BP about 7 to 10 points. I have white coat syndrome, so when I am in the doctor's office, my BP can go up to 150/95 (where it can be the aforementioned 128/82 prior to departing the house for the doctor).

I know I need to lose some weight.

I have a follow-up blood test in 3 months - Doc says he wants to see an improvement in cholesterol or he wants to talk about Statins - ugh.

I'm at my BT for Vitamin C.

I'm looking to avoid the Statins altogether, and get off of the Lisinopril.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Brian

VanCanada

Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#2  Post by VanCanada » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:44 pm

L-Arginine.

Search my earlier posts for more information.

Good luck.

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#3  Post by Surveyor » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:16 am

VanCanada wrote:L-Arginine.

Search my earlier posts for more information.

Good luck.

VanCanada wrote:L-Arginine.

Search my earlier posts for more information.

Good luck.

Where are your earlier post?

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:23 am

bsaudio - thanks for posting.

What is missing is the medical history, if any, of CVD. Or are your only medical problems high cholesterol and high blood pressure?

Elevated cholesterol is usually a symptom of a problem, either heart disease or a toxic load (e.g. amalgam fillings, or toxins from drugs, etc.). You say you are at bowel tolerance, so give it some time (for the cholesterol to exit the body - it is reabsorbed and recycled, so when it dissolves off the arterial wall, your numbers can/will go up for a time.) In case you bowel tolerance is low, a good idea is to add 1 or 2 packets of Lypo-C, say at the end of the day. Good insurance policy.

The high blood pressure ought to be reduced over time, especially with the Super-K (vitamin K) and if there is calcification that is causing the high blood pressure. It may take a year or more for the calcium to be redeposited (hopefully into your bones).

There can be other reasons for the high blood pressure, and johnwen may have more ideas. But you supplement program looks good. Stay the course.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#5  Post by bsaudio » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:02 am

Thanks Owen.

There is no history of CVD, for either myself, or my family. I have one small filling which is nearing "end of life" if you will, and will probably be replaced on my next dental visit. I had one other small one that was replaced many years ago by one of the porcelain looking ones.

I stumbled across Linus Pauling's book while trying to deal with my aching back, and decided to start the protocol as my BP was elevated. It was disheartening to discover my Cholesterol had gotten worse after being on the program, but what you have said about it basically taking time to clear itself out makes sense.

My blood pressure intrigues me as it is only for that 4 to 5 hour window each day. I don't know if that is "normal" for people with elevated BP - it just seems odd to me.

I will add the Lypo-C and see how that helps.

Will be interested in what johnwen has to say.

For VanCanada - I've looked into Arginine before, but it seems pretty clear that it and Lysine cancel out the benefits of each other, which kind of defeats the purpose. I know they can be taken 3 or 4 hours apart, but I don't think with my travel and work schedule I can manage to take supplements every 3 or 4 hours of the day.

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:22 pm

Johnwen has posted previously on the blood pressure/time of day issue.. (I may search myself.) This is not unusual (and remember high blood pressure is normal - as long as it isn't high all the time. It evolved as a way to push nutrients and adrenaline into cells during short periods of stress.)

As far as,

For VanCanada - I've looked into Arginine before, but it seems pretty clear that it and Lysine cancel out the benefits of each other, which kind of defeats the purpose. I know they can be taken 3 or 4 hours apart, but I don't think with my travel and work schedule I can manage to take supplements every 3 or 4 hours of the day.


This "cancelation" is a rumor, as far as I am concerned. Perhaps arginine and lysine can be antagonists, in certain limited applications. For example, lysine my fight certain viral infections, while arginine may promote the infection. But I am not even sure of this, so if you have information/links that support the idea that these essential nutrients - amino acids - "cancel each other out", I would love to look at this information.

I think you can safely take both of these aminos together for CVD. Arginine (3000 mg) has a demonstrable effect lowering blood pressure (as does magnesium and vitamin B6, etc.).
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

VanCanada

Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#7  Post by VanCanada » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:42 pm


randian

Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#8  Post by randian » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:49 pm

This article has some good information on arginine.

The gist is:
1) Arginine/Lysine antagonism occurs in vitro. Specifically, lysine antagonizes the viral growth-promoting action of arginine. Whether arginine antagonizes the actions of lysine is not stated.
2) Replenishment of arginine reduced the virus-enhancing activity of preincubated media.
3) Addition of arginine reduced the multiplication of herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and demonstrated the potential of arginine as an antiherpetic agent.
4) Critically ill patients fed a high-protein diet enriched with arginine, fiber, and antioxidants showed no increase in incidences of infections
5) Arginine and NaCl in conjunction with elevated temperature enhances inactivation of herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and influenza virus type A.
6) Excess arginine in growth media in absence of methylation capacity may inhibit viral replication
7) It turns out that there is a key protein involved in herpes replication that contains arginine-rich regions. However, the arginine residues found in the protein must become methylated in order to stimulate replication. Otherwise, replication can be inhibited. It is not stated whether the body methylates arginine.
8 ) Advice that herpes sufferers reduce arginine is basically wrong

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:37 am

Thank you. I note that all these conflicts are referring to effects fighting or controlling infections, which may or may not be true in vivo.

However, both aminos seem to be able to create NO, (Nitric oxide, or nitrogen oxide, also known as nitrogen monoxide, is a molecule with chemical formula NO. - wikipedia) which expands blood vessels, lowers blood pressure, and promotes better cardiovascular health.

Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#10  Post by bsaudio » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:44 pm

Thanks for all the input.

I will add a pack of the Lypo-C each evening to my supplements.

For the 3000 mg of Arginine - I'm assuming I should take it all at once, and in the morning before my BP ramps up?

Many Thanks.

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#11  Post by Saw » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:40 pm

For the 3000 mg of Arginine - I'm assuming I should take it all at once, and in the morning before my BP ramps up?


Here are Dr.Ignarro's recommendations from his book 'No more heart disease'

Option 1: once a day before bedtime, 4-6 grams l-arginine, 200-1000 mg l-citrulline.
Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#12  Post by BaronZemo » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:46 pm

Saw wrote:
For the 3000 mg of Arginine - I'm assuming I should take it all at once, and in the morning before my BP ramps up?


Here are Dr.Ignarro's recommendations from his book 'No more heart disease'

Option 1: once a day before bedtime, 4-6 grams l-arginine, 200-1000 mg l-citrulline.




Tried this in the past, just arginine, didn't lower BP..bought some arginine with -citrulline , will see if it works any better

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#13  Post by eDOC » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:02 pm

Hi there,

Am treating an eldery man aged 89, with 2 CABG performed in 1982 & 2002, hypertensive, diabetic, hypelipedemic, suffering from Ch Bronchitis, Spondylosis, Enlarged Prostate was placed on 14 different prescriptive drugs & in total took 36 tabs/day.

Came to me with muscleaches & pains & wanted any treatment to relieve his issues.

Was taking Nitrostat, Diltiazem, Cozar, Flowmax, Statins, Clopidogrel, Montelukast.....

Told him that you are taking chemical crap & junk that would never help you......he jumped & said it's been prescribed by the top doctors in US & UK..........still replied that it's crap & bandaid.

Stopped ALL his meds...........except Cozar 25mg once day if needed.

Taking MMS 11drops/day day time & increasing & Vit C 4gms, along with Lysine, Proline, NAC & CoQ10 in the evening.

Total duration till today is 2 weeks, BP in 24hrs varies btw Systolic 160-110/ Diastolic 85-75, BS 90-140 mg/dl, gave intotal 4 shots of IV Gluta too at different times that helped relive his back pain by 50%. Lipids are with normal range, Prostate has reduced in size.

Hope that helps, sorry am in a rush couldn't resist, shall edit details later, PM if you need any help.........what you are taking might never help. Arginine for BP, what causes hypertension, think about that, you are trying to dilate clogged/narrowed vessels with Nitric Oxide, doesn't make sense.

Good Luck......
Rookie, rusty, sub average doc but one that gives results!

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Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#14  Post by eDOC » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:40 am

Serum Triglycerides level?
Rookie, rusty, sub average doc but one that gives results!

VanCanada

Re: Need help with BP & Cholesterol

Post Number:#15  Post by VanCanada » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:42 pm

eDOC wrote:...gave in total 4 shots of IV Gluta too at different times that helped relive his back pain by 50%.
I've looked without success for scientific studies backing the use of intravenous glutathione for any sort of health malady. Please point me in the right direction, if you don't mind. Thanks.

However, if there are only unpublished case reports available and nothing that's been published, while that's valid evidence too, it's unfortunately not particularly rock solid spectacular to point others to. Thanks for all the contributions you are making to this online community; yours is mostly hard scientific data we can use, which is really terrific.



Edit: I just came across an earlier thread here. It seems that Owen should have pointed you to some information about glutathione from Drs. Levy and Hickey at the thread below from October 2009. It's almost as if you didn't see that information yet, seeing as though you are still employing Gluta shots with your patients.

In brief, Dr. Levy recommends lyposomal glutathione over the Gluta shots. And Dr. Hickey wrote "The glutathione may act as an antioxidant in the tumor modulating the effect of the ascorbate. However, the doses would be important."

I'm not clear about the scientific basis for your intravenous use of glutathione. Would you agree or disagree that it's generally not advisable to raise the serum levels of glutathione above a person's baseline? Why or why not? If you have evidence I would be most interested in the references. Thanks eDoc.


Thread: I/V Vit C & Gluta Protocol for treating Ca Breast, Leukemias
(from the subforum "Vitamin C and Cancer")
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7621
Last edited by VanCanada on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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