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 Anyone have stents without statins? 
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Post Anyone have stents without statins?
Is there anyone on here or anyone know someone who has stents and has weaned themselves off statins without the stents reclotting or closing up?


Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:37 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
Check out Leake's book/experience.
http://www.amazon.com/Patented-Heart-Disease-Cure-Works/dp/1475122926/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351622115&sr=8-1&keywords=leake+heart+disease
I know he weaned himself off after something like 17 years, but don't remember if he had stents.


added he has stents...

Quote:
David H. Leake is a retired Naval Reserve Captain and public relations professional. He developed coronary artery disease at age 48. He has undergone two angioplasty procedures and has three stents permanently implanted in his heart. Every statin drug he was prescribed over several years eventually led to disturbing side effects. Lipitor was the last ... and worst. With no statin alternative remaining, he panicked. Nearly all his relatives had died of heart disease. Leake began an extensive search of the Internet, looking for any glimmer of hope. His quest finally led him to a 1994 patent, a cure for heart disease. In this book he reveals how following the regimen prescribed by that patent led to complete reversal of his coronary artery disease. He wants the world to know there really is an inexpensive, non-prescription treatment to prevent, reverse and cure heart disease, and possibly prevent strokes as well..

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Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
My wife has had three for 11years!
Has not touched nor taken one statin drug in those 11 years.
All is stable and holding and she does 30 min. (4mph) on the threadmill everyday.
Just 6g. of V-C and 4g. L-lysine, 1g. l-arginine, 10 mg policosanol, 10 mg. Norvasc, 5mg Effient.
(SHHHH) she'll be 70 next month :wink:

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Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
And she has never had stenosis or clogging of those stents? I wanted to see if anyone else who has had stents ever tried to stop a stain and clotted up again?


Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:08 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
jpoww wrote:
And she has never had stenosis or clogging of those stents? I wanted to see if anyone else who has had stents ever tried to stop a stain and clotted up again?


I hope it is clear that these reports of people who are using Pauling and associates invention - Lp(a) binding inhibitors (vitamin C, lysine and proline) to keep their arteries w/stents clear!

The published statistics are that those under ordinary care w/stents suffer regrowth (restenosis) over 40% of the time. (And I can safely bet that nearly 100% of these people have been prescribed statins!)

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Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:12 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
I understand. We went to see another cardiologist today and he also said, stains like lipator keep the stents open, it widens the arteries too. He says with as young as my husband is and at his age already has 35% heart muscle damage it would be to risky to try and get off of lipator or effient. My husband is still doing the lysine, proline and vit. c


Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:04 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
Quote:
I understand. We went to see another cardiologist today and he also said, stains like lipator keep the stents open, it widens the arteries too.


Most people don't want to disagree with a highly trained specialists - including me. (I have tried it, and it isn't pretty).

However, if their opinion really matters to you, then you should dig a little deeper and ask for the scientific references that provide evidence that statins (not stains) keep stents open and widens arteries.

There is only one published study that I am aware of (out of hundreds that have been run) that showed such an effect in a modest way - the Jupiter study of Crestor. But as soon as the effect was observed, the study was immediately terminated, and is probably the statistical fluke that a P value of .95 equals (1 in 20 studies might show such a result
even though it is a statistical fluke). The drug companies keep running studies (that would otherwise be the definition of insanity - doing the same thing and expecting a different result). Only they are not insane - they keep hoping for that statistical fluke, and apparently got it in Jupiter. But the broad meaning of all the studies combined is that there is no value from statins in "keeping stents open and widening arteries." This is pretty astounding given how much outright fraud there is in medical research (I refer you to Nick Gonzalez's recent book WHAT WENT WRONG). and especially when the drug is a "cash cow" like the statins.

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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:27 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
Ok on our next visit to the doctor I will ask him for evidence. The only reason I keep arguing with myself over this is because after a year of my husband weaning himself off lipator, he has a major heart attack. I want proof that stains do or do not keep the arteries and stents open. I did read on the internet on one site that said lipator stablizes plaque. That was all I could find.


Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:43 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
I think the doctors really dont know if lipator widens the arteries or even stablizes plaque but to protect themselves they just tell me your husband is very young and has had 3 heart attacks and one of them was a major heart attack that caused him to go into cardiogenic shock, so we dont want to risk him getting off any medications. so they have me scared to death


Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:45 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
jpoww wrote:
...The only reason I keep arguing with myself over this is because after a year of my husband weaning himself off lipitor, he has a major heart attack. ...


Without reviewing this entire case again, I ASSUME YOUR HUSBAND WAS NOT SUPPLEMENTING VITAMIN C when he had the heart attack. If he was on the Pauling therapy, and suffered a heart attack, please remind me! If as I suspect, he was not, then that is the reason he suffered the attack. Lipitor had little or nothing to do with it.

A good book on this is STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER by a cardiologist - written for cargiologists. (Written by Thomas Levy livonbooks.com) as it describes how vitamin C is involved in every known risk factor (or rather, how a deficiency of vitamin C is involved with every known risk factor for CVD).

This would also be a book you might give to a cardiologist, if they seem in any way receptive to new ideas.

Heart attacks can be caused for multiple reasons and vitamin C may not be able to counteract them all (for example, as Dr. Levy describes, capillary (small arteries like veins) can grow in the plaque tissue to supply it with blood, but, since these fragile arteries are near the heart and can burst, (called "unstable plaque") leading to a cascade of "clotting events" which can lead to a blood clot, which can lead to a heart attack. Levy convinced me that in certain situations, like unstable plaque, the only thing that can/should be done is a coronary by pass operation. But if vitamin C is taken regularly before things get that bad, this problem should not occur.

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Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:46 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
No my husband was not supplementing with vit. c when he had his heart attack. What causes unstable plaque?


Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
For a more definitive answer, you (and your husband) should read Dr. Levy's book.

From my poor memory, the thing that "causes" unstable plaque is having cardiovascular disease over a long period of time. As Levy describes the process, the growth of plaque, leading to the narrowing of arteries, is almost like a growth of a tumor. It turns from the soft atheromas (that can been so easily seen on retinal photographs) to hard calcifications, and eventually the tissue itself grows, and the capillaries appear. (This is one of the reasons cardiologists are taught and firmly believe that advanced atherosclerosis cannot be reversed.)

However, even callouses on the hands go away when you don't work with your hands.

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Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:33 am
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
i'm currently reading How to practice medicine without a license. I will read Dr. Levy's book next. I remember my the doctor said after my husbands first heart attack that he had soft plaque. I dont remember him saying it was unstable plaque until the last heart attack. The doctor said the word unstable plaque when he mentioned we should never get off lipator because it stablize the plaque. So do I assume my husband has unstable plaque and that he needs bypass surgery? is there a way to know for sure if he has unstable plaque?
my husband will never stop this the pauling therapy but I want to get to the bottom of what causes plaque? what causes inflammation in the artieries and to stop that also.
I have read that stess, to many carbs, to much sugar and eating vegatable oils (that become rancid ) cause inflammation to the artieries and in turn cause cholesteral to repair and that causes the begining of buildup. is this also true?


Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:48 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
Let me know if my book helps you answer the question what causes atherosclerosis.

Focus on the Willis work and the early experiments with guinea pigs (animals that cannot make their own vitamin C and suffer atherosclerosis similar to humans.)

One thing missing in a diet determines whether these animals (and probably humans) get atherosclerosis - vitamin C.

Now the theory why that is has to do with collagen, physical forces caused by the heart beat, leading to the crack (lesion) in the arterial wall...

If Pauling was right, nothing else really matters.

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Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Anyone have stents without statins?
I understand what willis was saying what causes atherosclerosis and I'm not saying that I disagree with him. But I also think that lesions in the arterial walls could be from what we eat too. Maybe its a combination of what willis said and the food we eat. I believe sugar and carbs and trans fats or rancid fats create lesions causing inflammation to the aterial walls that cause cholesteral to try and repair it. and if the arterial walls are weak from lack of vitamin c then the Lp(a) particles get into that underlining layer of the wall and cause build up until it bursts and causes a heart attack. These is just my opinion from the little research I have done. I also believe that saturated fat is good for you and does not cause you harm in anyway. Saturated fats are a full chain fat..there is no open molecule for any type of rancid or oxidation to occur. and rancid oxidized fat is what is bad.

I know I might sound like I'm repeating myself but is there anyway to know for sure that my husband has unstable plaque? and if he would need bypass surgery? you stated
"Levy convinced me that in certain situations, like unstable plaque, the only thing that can/should be done is a coronary by pass operation. But if vitamin C is taken regularly before things get that bad, this problem should not occur"
So how do I know if the only thing for my husband now is bypass surgery? How do we know we caught this in time and started the vitamin c soon enough that it can be fixed?


Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:35 pm
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