Anyone have stents without statins?

[Johnwen]

Heres a Link that pretty much describes the different forms that are used and sometimes are given a name without being investigated if this is truely what it is.
Also remember when you read this Endothiel Errosion is the same thing as scurvy. Breakdown of the glue that holds the endothiel cells together. (collagen)


http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/16/2068.full

[jpoww]

John, I read the article but some of those medical terms made it hard for me to understand what was being said. So there are several types of unstable plaque? one caused from cholesterol and one from blood? is that what they were saying?
I still dont know how we are supose to know what my husband has? The doctors have not told me what they found when they went in there to ballon his stents. All they say is that the older stents closed up and we balloned them open.
How do I know which type of unstable plaque he has?
My husband has been having periods of time where he has low white blood count/neutropina where is neutrophils are very very low. a year ago when his neutrophils were so low they did two bone marrow biopsy's to see if he had luekemia and both times came back negative. in september when he had his lastest heart attack his white blood count went low again while he was still in the hospital. its still low right now .
in the article you sent me it mentions neutophilis in there, it says "In patients with severe unstable angina, a transient acute widespread coronary endothelial inflammatory process is suggested by transcoronary activation of neutrophils.16,17 Neutrophil activation appears confined to the acute phase of instability, as it is no longer detectable at the time of hospital discharge"
can you explain to me what they are saying about this because I dont understand?
I wonder if his neurtophils are playing a role in his stenoses.

[Johnwen]

neurtophils are a persons first responders to infection or invasion of a pathogen if the levels are low and he's been checked for low production it means their out doing their job somewhere in the body and being used faster then they can be reproduced. So did they give him antibiotics after the procedure or NSAID's. Did he run a fever after the cath?? Because it's possible when they did the procedure it caused inflammation within the artery. However since this condition has been chronic (had it for a long time) it leads me back to his thyroid. With a high TSH in my opinion anything over 2 is high because your already in trouble when it's around 4. When the persons t3 levels get low, inflamation at the cell level begins and with a low thyroid levels the production of cortisol becomes suppressed (which is your body's natural anti-inflamatory hormones) and levels of epinephrine increase which raises heart rate and blood pressure. The neurtophils are then being used all over the place trying to correct a problem which is not in their job description and serum (blood) levels will drop since their inside the cells trying to correct a problem they can't fix. Bottom line he really needs to get his thyroid looked at and corrected but in the mean time stay on the V-C to give his pipes what they need during these invasions. I tried to make this as simple as possible hope it helps.

[jpoww]

yes they gave him antibotics after cath and he did run a fever. What you said makes total sense. When I saw his tsh go to 4 I thought it was due to the fact that he was amiodarone but I will get him to go get his thryoid check.
Getting back to the unstable plaque..How do I know which type of unstable plaque he has?
How do I know if he is headed for bypass surgery if he has another heart attack?

[randian]

It turns from the soft atheromas (that can been so easily seen on retinal photographs) to hard calcifications, and eventually the tissue itself grows, and the capillaries appear. (This is one of the reasons cardiologists are taught and firmly believe that advanced atherosclerosis cannot be reversed.)

Are you saying that hard calcified atheromas can in fact be reversed? Is Pauling therapy + vitamin K the means to that reversal? What source did you use to confirm this? I was under the (perhaps erroneous) impression that once calcification occurs lysine and proline can't do their thing and scrub away the lp(a) that's bound up with that calcium.

[ofonorow]

true - vitamin K is the important addition for dealing with calcification's.

[randian]

true - vitamin K is the important addition for dealing with calcification's.

True, calcified plaques can be reversed and Pauling Therapy + vitamin K is the means to accomplish it, or true, they cannot be reversed? Over what kind of timeframe does this effect occur?

[jimmylesante]

True it can reduce calcification. A study on rats showed a 37%+ decrease in plaques after 6weeks of vitamin K dosage-can't remember the ref but think it was in the Blood journal.
Vitamin K2 is found in cheese,egg yolk, sauerkraut and the Japanese Natto(fermented soyabeans-perhaps that's why the Japs live so long?) It is also manufactured in the stomach microflora, if you have the right microflora.
It activates certain proteins(MGP) that scavenge on the calcium in blood vessels. Mice born without the MGP protein die within 2 months from arterial calcification leading to blood vessel rupture.
Vitamin D increases the production of MGP- so sitting in the sun eating Sauerkraut would be ideal

[randian]

True it can reduce calcification. A study on rats showed a 37%+ decrease in plaques after 6weeks of vitamin K dosage-can't remember the ref but think it was in the Blood journal.

Very cool, thanks. I knew that vitamin K was effective on calcification of arteries (hardening), but wasn't sure if it was also effective on calcification of plaques, which seemed like a potentially different phenomenon.

Does the study who which K2 (mark 4 or mark 7) is most effective?

[tjohnson_nb]

Heres a Link that pretty much describes the different forms that are used and sometimes are given a name without being investigated if this is truely what it is.
Also remember when you read this Endothiel Errosion is the same thing as scurvy. Breakdown of the glue that holds the endothiel cells together. (collagen)


http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/16/2068.full

Did a search on that page for 'Endothiel Errosion' and found nothing. Try 'endothelial erosion'

[tjohnson_nb]

This article seems to suggest that Vit C increases bio-availability of NO and so reduces CRP and so inflammation in vascular walls?
http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/25/16/1412.long

The two fundamental mechanisms for impaired bioavailability of NO are reduced synthesis and increased oxidative inactivation by reactive oxygen species. Intra-arterial infusion of the oxygen radical scavenger vitamin C completely normalised reduced baseline, as well as acetylcholine-stimulated, blood flow responses in patients with elevated CRP serum levels. Most importantly, the effect of the oxygen-derived free radical scavenger vitamin C on basal blood flow was directly related to CRP serum levels and superimposed on the effects of other risk factors for CAD, as evidenced by the multivariable analysis identifying CRP serum levels as an independent predictor of vitamin C-mediated increases in basal blood flow.

[jimmylesante]

Randian: The study used MK4- .Regards the Pauling Therapy, Saul,Hickey and Roberts in their book reckon it takes 6months to see some plaque reduction and expect full reduction within 2years.

[ofonorow]

true - vitamin K is the important addition for dealing with calcification's.

True, calcified plaques can be reversed and Pauling Therapy + vitamin K is the means to accomplish it, or true, they cannot be reversed? Over what kind of timeframe does this effect occur?

Original Life Extension Magazine article from the year 2000 that keyed me to the importance of vitamin K and arterial calcification:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html Stunning New Research..


Told this story before. CEO of Tower who knew Pauling had taken his product (vitamin C, lysine, etc.) for years. Friend invented a new CT-Scanner and invited him to see how well the Tower products worked. Massive calcium score. Checked himself into a hospital - but angiogram was good. Very little blockage/narrowing.??? Same CEO at a trade show. We both take CardioVision tests from an adjoining booth. My "arterial stiffness" score was normal, from memory 50. CEO was off the charts stiff - (from memory 250). I had just read the article, and the CEO added vitamin K to his regimen. Year later, same trade show - both CardioVision tests has us the same - around 50.

Moral - you can take high dose vitamin C and lysine (and proline, E, etc.) and still have calcified arteries which leads to high blood pressure, etc., and having a high calcium score does not necessaraily mean that your arteries are narrow and blocked, and the Japanese are apparently correct, and vitamin K will act like a hormone to move calcium from soft tissue into bones.

And isn't it sad that so many drugs for heart patients, blood thinners, work by blocking vitamin K, leading to rapid calcification of heart patient's arteries!

Here is a more recent, 2009, Life Extension Magazine article about vitamin K.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_01.htm

Not clear that benefit is always K2 - some research with K1 (and the body apparently turns K1 into K2). So to cover all bases I recommend 1 Super-K from Life extension.

However, because of the clotting antagonists, discussions here would indicate that vitamin K2 is appropriate for heart patients on blood thinners - because MK2 does not play a role in clotting.. Need to verify. If not on a blood thinning drug, then no issue.

[randian]

I am taking 20,000 mg C, 4800 mg lysine, 1600 mg proline, and 1 life extension super-K each day. I hope that has the bases covered.