new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Public discussion of how to use Vitamin C to treat and cure cardiovascular disease.

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ofonorow
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new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:32 pm

Hi Owen,
I was wondering if you heard the latest study on L-Carnitine, being related to risk for heart disease.

I'm on Cardio C as you know, and i just found out that L-Carnitine can be synthesized from Lysine, I have also been supplementing with about 1000mg of L-Carnitine which i understood to be good for the heart,and now i'm wondering if i should continue with the Carnitine supplementation, with the amount of Lysine i get from two scoops of Cardio C. My heart ejection fraction is at 35 to 40% so i thought that the L-Carnitine would be good to increase my energy.

Can you please shed some light on this subject. Thank You. Charles. P.S. Thanks for the Cardio Ade,I noticed it doe not contain Proline, and does not taste as good as the Cardio C.


I'll bet you a quarter that study is nonsense. But please send me the link.

This is called the BIG LIE.

All these garbage "studies" and associated news stories are to keep the ignorant doctors in line (ignorant because they don't get trained in nutrition during med school)

For a better understanding how garbage posing as science can make it into "prestigious" medical journals, take the time to read the fantastic book by Steve Hickey TARNISHED GOLD.

I would not worry. I repeat, I would not worry.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:09 pm

My question is why didn't the media run with the NIH study in 2003 that proved L-carnitine is actually good for the heart!
Now there saying L-carnitine is converted in the GUT to TMAO Well guess what! TMAO is a natural occuring organic compound found in FISH!!!
If it's so bad then why are all the Heart experts claim that eating fish is HEALTHY!!!

I agree with Owen that something smells fishy here!!! :?:

Trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO)

ADDED LATER

Found a goverment site that gives some figures

http://www.fao.org/fishery/topic/14866/en
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research!

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#3  Post by roadrunner » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:45 am

Some trimethylamine (TMA) may be formed from dietary choline (a component of lecithin, widely found in dietary sources), by a reaction catalyzed by enzymes within gut bacteria. Dimethylamine (DMA) is formed from TMA.
These amines can be nitrosated to form dimethylnitrosamine, a potent carcinogen.
Most humans can convert TMA to TMAO. (see following link – research done back in ’88)
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/119/5/800.full.pdf
They concluded that there is a critical concentration of choline that must be reached in the large intestine before the choline absorption processes in the small intestine are overloaded, thus allowing enough choline to reach the large intestine (which is colonized by bacteria, unlike the small intestine)
The researchers concluded that consumption of normal foods were not likely to significantly increase TMA and DMA production, therefore not likely to greatly change exposure to nitrosamines.

Here is a kicker – they said that direct dietary intake of TMA and DMA would likely be far greater sources – e.g. EATING FISH, which already contain pre-formed TMA!!
The conversion of TMA to TMAO is an oxidation reaction. Why did the “brilliant”, large, well-funded team at the Cleveland Clinic ignore the likely protective action of anti-oxidants such as Vit C and gamma E? Simple minds or simple politics? And by the way, remember research was published a while back which found that vit C prevented the formation of nitrosamines.

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#4  Post by roadrunner » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:21 pm

p.s. Carnitine, like choline, can be a precursor of TMA. I will keep my vit. C up and not worry about it.

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:11 pm

Thanks all. Excellent responses. Here is the article that worried my correspondent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/l-carnitine-heart-disease-red-meat-compound_n_3037372.html?utm_hp_ref=email_share

I was especially impressed by the work showing carnitine increases atherosclerosis in mice! (And here I thought that the only mice that you could induce atherosclorosis in were those bred deficient or completely unable to make their own vitamin C (GULO defect).
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:16 pm

http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/jon.html
The late Brian Liebovitz (Journal of Optimal Nutrition) was one of my heroes and a friend of Linus Pauling

Cardiac insufficiency (with its plethora of symptoms, including arrythmias, pulse abnormalities, pressure on the chest, difficulty breathing, and a sense of something being wrong in the area of the heart) is a condition which, if left untreated, will result in a heart attack. Although there are many causes of cardiac insufficiency (i.e., atherosclerosis, ischaemia, vasospasm), the ultimate biochemical defect is an insufficient supply of cellular energy (i.e., ATP). The combination of L-carnitine, coenzyme Q10, magnesium, and vitamin E (CCME) is an extremely effective treatment for cardiac insufficiency, as the nutrients provided cover most of the known mechanisms of cardiac dysfunction.
CCME: L-Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Magnesium, And Vitamin E CCME stands for L-Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Magnesium, and vitamin E - a combination of the most important energy-generating nutrients. This quartet of nutrients regulates the most remarkable process in life, because the process is life, at least multicellular life. Of all the nutritional factors required for life, L-carnitine, coenzyme Q10, magnesium, and vitamin E must be ranked among the most important for optimizing mitochondrial energy production. Other nutrients are essential, to be sure, and the emphasis on CCME should not be interpreted as diminishing the cardiovascular benefits of niacin (as NAD), riboflavin (as FAD), pantothenic acid (as coenzyme A), thiamin (as TPP), and many other nutrients and food factors.

L-Carnitine, coenzyme Q10, magnesium, and vitamin E all interact in the mitochondrial generation of energy. Carnitine carries fats across the inner membrane for beta-oxidation. Coenzyme Q10 is the key factor in the electron transport system. Magnesium is an essential cofactor for many of the enzyme systems which support energy production. Moreover, it is required for ATP stability, as ATP is synthesized as the magnesium complex. Vitamin E is in the membrane where it can scavenge the free radicals generated by the electron transport system.
L-Carnitine
L-carnitine (the rate determining factor in beta oxidation) increases ATP generation via its effects on beta oxidation, as well as its role in the removal of acetyl units from the mitochondria. The latter process is important because accumulation of acetyl units is known to inhibit various parts of the respiratory process. Other important actions of L-carnitine include vasodialation of the blood vessels and increased ability to sustain cardiac contractions. Finally, supplemental L-carnitine has been well- documented to reduce blood and tissue lipids, which is associated with a reduced risk of developing heart disease.

Lipids provide 60-80% of the metabolic energy required by the heart, which explains why such high levels of L-carnitine are stored in cardiac muscle. Moreover, interference with fatty acid oxidation can have dire consequences on myocardial function. Cognizance of L-carnitine�s import has led to numerous investigations, the results of which have documented its cardiovascular benefits in both animals , and humans , , Carnitine is perhaps best known for its lipid-lowering activity, specifically, its ability to rapidly and markedly decrease plasma triglycerides and increase HDL-cholesterol.


And lets not forget Bruce Ames, longevity studies/formula - Acetyl L carnitine and alpha lipoic acid.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#7  Post by Saw » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:06 pm

Apr. 11, 2013 — L-carnitine significantly improves cardiac health in patients after a heart attack, say a multicenter team of investigators in a study published today in Mayo Clinic Proceedings. Their findings, based on analysis of key controlled trials, associate L-carnitine with significant reduction in death from all causes and a highly significant reduction in ventricular arrhythmias and anginal attacks following a heart attack, compared with placebo or control.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130412132321.htm
Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:58 pm

Wow - thank you saw! So this is another example of the postulate that the forces working against the health of humanity drop a "bomb" designed to deflate the effect of an impending study favorable to a low-cost nutrient! This may be the perfect example. Thank you for finding this.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:36 am

Think about what must be involved if all these apparent coincidences aren't?

The people orchestrating the debunking campaign must somehow be made aware of a study in the pipeline to be published. (According to Pauling, usually authors submit to one journal at a time. If rejected, they try a different journal, etc.) I suppose a back door method might be the Institutional Review Boards, as it is my understanding that all studies on human require the approval of the IRBs.

So after it is determined that a study is in the pipleline to be published that would be detrimental to the economic health and viability of medicine - should doctors hear about it - this group must somehow put together and sanction a study that has the opposite results, so that it can be published just ahead of the "dangerous" study. Or perhaps they keep records of unpublished studies, rejected during peer review, for just this purpose, to be published/released when deemed necessary.

And finally, they have some inside knowledge of the date of publication of the real study, so they can issue a press release just before to blunt any stories about the real science.

I don't know if any of this is illegal, but certainly immoral and unethical.

Of course we are just speculating here. Maybe all these coincidences are really coincidences.

And to all readers with time on their hands, who can go back through the literature and find examples of this phenomenon - please list your findings here. A long time ago, (circa 2004) I wrote an article about this
http://www.internetwks.com/owen/taleoftwo.htm
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:33 am

From the newly appointed Vitamin C Foundation researcher....

I KNOW you are on to something. The most recent one I remember was about fish oil. Here is LEF link Science by Ambush: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/apr2013_Science-by-Ambush_01.htm

Another one I remember was against vitamin E. Again, here is LEF article:http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/Rebuttal-to-Recent-Attacks-Against-Dietary-Supplements.htm

Another one on multivitamins--the Iowa Women's Health Study: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/mar2012_Findings-Flawed-Study-Used-Discredit-Multivitamin-Mineral-Supplements_01.htm
A couple of good quotes: "The impact of the blatantly flawed study will be to foster apathy and fear in the public, who are misled to think that taking a simple multivitamin supplement may cause them to die sooner.

This is great news for pharmaceutical interests, of course, since the more that people neglect their health, the greater the demand will be for costly medical interventions."
I am convinced these are orchestrated attacks funded by Big Pharma. Their lobby is unbelievable. Billy Tauzin, R-LA, was chairman of the committee overseeing the drug industry. Just before he retired, he passed the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill which was very generous to the pharma industry. He was even criticized by members of his own party for using unethical tactics. Guess where he was offered a job for his reward?? Head of the PhRMA lobbyists at over $2 mil per year. In 2010, he received $11.6 million making him the highest paid health-law lobbyist. I read that Big Pharma got EVERY thing they wanted while he was there!! The greed is just unbelievable!!

I will search for more on this subject as time permits.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#11  Post by roadrunner » Wed May 01, 2013 7:15 pm

Check out this link:

http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmast ... mment-7878

Good article ..."To take the most extreme example, halibut generated over 107 times as much TMAO as red meat. It seems obvious from this study that if any foods should be singled out for the production of TMAO, it should be seafoods. Yet the Nature Medicine paper makes no mention of fish.."

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Re: new study links carnitine with heart disease?

Post Number:#12  Post by roadrunner » Wed May 01, 2013 7:24 pm

same article as above, but at the top (sorry)

http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmast ... m-to-tmao/


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