VAP AND NMR RESULTS...OPINIONS???

[ofonorow]

Owen...

Some basic background on me,,Male,No heart attack, and no Angina, stents 7 yrs ago in the LAD, was asymptomatic.; diagnosed via a CT Angiogram.,Thalium Stress was normal...,,Then Plavix for 3-4 subsequent yrs...
Still on 20mg Lipitor, Baby Aspirin, 160mg Diovan..I'm 6' 180lbs, in ok shape..
Cholest Profile as pf 3-1-2013..Total Chol: 165; Tri: 91; VLDL 18; LDL; 81; HDL 66 LP(a) 79
I am trying to get off the Lipitor...

I am concerned the "Little(a)" is way too high, so I started on "Cardio-Tech" from Tower Labs
A few weeks into it, I had a Colitis attack with some bleeding...I had not experienced this since I was put on Plavix 7 yrs ago..No problems in between..So I feel it was more than just a coincidence, so I stopped the oral Cardio-Tech Powder...
April 15th...Began taking 4gms Liposomal C from Mercola...1gm, 4 time daily...along with seperate doses of Lysine & Proline...1500mg each...and reduced the Lipitor to 10mg daily, down from 20mg 5 days a week(didnt take it on the weekends)
Do you think I can accomplish a reversal/halt to CAD with this regimen of Lipo C vrs Oral C? Your thoughts? Thanks!
Les

My first reaction: It is surprising that it is accepted medical practice to insert stents without a diagnosis of serious heart disease. Spilled milk, but the arterial narrowing discovered by the angiogram can be handled, over time, with Pauling's therapy plus vitamin K.

If I had a reaction like you did to ordinary oral vitamin C, I probably would cut down on the oral vitamin C, and add a liposomal vitamin C. (However, I have no experience with Mercola's liposomal products, so please keep us informed. I have had nearly miraculous experiences with livonlabs.com Lypo-c product.)

Also you cholesterol is too low. Not to mention the side effects of that statin.

Your Lp(a) would be high if a) measured and b) mg/dl. What are the units on the report?

Again, I don't understand how your total cholesterol can be 165, your LDL 81, and your Lp(a) is 79?

johnwen - and idea what is up with these numbers?

[Johnwen]

johnwen - and idea what is up with these numbers?

Sure You mean other then killing his liver with the Statins Correct?

OK! Diovan is an ARB which is known to cause reduced Kidney function!
What bothers me is it's a 2nd teir drug in that it's down near the middle of the list on BP drugs to try to reduce BP and is mostly used Post MI or if suspected LV heart failure.
I would question why he would be on this med. If he didn't have a heart attack when there's so many others that would help without this reaction. I covered this on the other post about kidney problems and increased LP(a) and posted a calculator also so people can see if they in fact have some form of kidney failure. (Doctor advice may kill patient) is the post title.

Here's a study that gives a pretty good example of the LP(a) increase when kidneys start going down hill.

http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v56/n3 ... 0990a.html

If he gets off the statins his stomach and the rest of him will be HAPPY!!!
How old is HE???

[leshoward]

Jonwen
What BP drug do you have in mind other than Diovan? Can you possibly send me the link to the post you are referring to? Also I am 59 yrs old... Thanks!

[Johnwen]

I would start with a ACE Inhibitor like Enalapril Maleate probably 5Mg. AM 5Mg. PM to start then give it about 3 weeks useage and then adjust as needed. I would stay away from water pills at this point like furosemide or Hydrochlorothiazide till some testing on the kidneys is done to see if theres problems there for sure.
This is a call for your doc he knows you best and can give the proper advice for your needs but it's worth discissing it with him/her and tell him your concerns and what your seeing in your tests he might have some tricks up his sleeve that can get things right for you.
Be warned that most doc's don't see LP(a) as a problem because of the education influence of Big Pharma.



Heres that posting read the whole thing it may elighten you on your situation.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10792

[leshoward]

Any thoughts on Olive Leaf Extract to control Blood Pressure...Here's a study comparing Olive Leaf Extract with Captopril...

A Better Way to Lower High Blood Pressure

"A recent study found olive leaf extract as effective as medication in normalizing stage 1 high blood pressure (140/90 to 159/99). Not only was the olive leaf extract as effective as the medication in normalizing blood pressure, ONLY the olive leaf extract also LOWERED TRIGLYCERIDES.

What this means for you- Planetary Herbals Full Spectrum Olive Leaf Extract (1) twice a day with or without food should do the trick. Good prices at http://vitaglo.com or http://iherb.com (use my pin RIS664 to get a discount at iherb) If you try it let me know.

Phytomedicine. 2011 Feb 15;18(4):251-8. Epub 2010 Oct 30. Olive (Olea europaea) leaf extract effective in patients with stage-1 hypertension: comparison with Captopril. Susalit E, Agus N, Effendi I, Tjandrawinata RR, Nofiarny D, Perrinjaquet-Moccetti T, Verbruggen M.

Source Nephrology & Hypertension Division, Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, University of Indonesia/Dr. Cipto Mangunkusumo National General Hospital, Jl. Diponegoro 71, Jakarta 10430, Indonesia.

Abstract A double-blind, randomized, parallel and active-controlled clinical study was conducted to evaluate the anti-hypertensive effect as well as the tolerability of Olive leaf extract in comparison with Captopril in patients with stage-1 hypertension. Additionally, this study also investigated the hypolipidemic effects of Olive leaf extract in such patients. It consisted of a run-in period of 4 weeks continued subsequently by an 8-week treatment period. Olive (Olea europaea L.) leaf extract (EFLA(®)943) was given orally at the dose of 500 mg twice daily in a flat-dose manner throughout the 8 weeks. Captopril was given at the dosage regimen of 12.5 mg twice daily at start. After 2 weeks, if necessary, the dose of Captopril would be titrated to 25 mg twice daily, based on subject's response to treatment. The primary efficacy endpoint was reduction in systolic blood pressure (SBP) from baseline to week-8 of treatment. The secondary efficacy endpoints were SBP as well as diastolic blood pressure (DBP) changes at every time-point evaluation and lipid profile improvement. Evaluation of BP was performed every week for 8 weeks of treatment; while of lipid profile at a 4-week interval. Mean SBP at baseline was 149.3±5.58 mmHg in Olive group and 148.4±5.56 mmHg in Captopril group; and mean DBPs were 93.9±4.51 and 93.8±4.88 mmHg, respectively. After 8 weeks of treatment, both groups experienced a significant reduction of SBP as well as DBP from baseline; while such reductions were not significantly different between groups. Means of SBP reduction from baseline to the end of study were -11.5±8.5 and -13.7±7.6 mmHg in Olive and Captopril groups, respectively; and those of DBP were -4.8±5.5 and -6.4±5.2 mmHg, respectively. A significant reduction of triglyceride level was observed in Olive group, but not in Captopril group. In conclusion, Olive (Olea europaea) leaf extract, at the dosage regimen of 500 mg twice daily, was similarly effective in lowering systolic and diastolic blood pressures in subjects with stage-1 hypertension as Captopril, given at its effective dose of 12.5-25 mg twice daily. Copyright © 2010 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.

[ofonorow]

I personally have no knowledge of olive leaf extract to lower blood pressure, but I think I know what non-toxic substances will lower blood pressure.

Numero one - magnesium. (I remember my brother consumed 3000 mg at one time - on the theory if some is good, more is better, and wound up on the floor, almost fainted.) So don't take that much, but a good absorbable magnesium is wonderful for heart patients (as is vitamin C, coq10, vitamin E, carnitine, etc.)

According to an article by Bill Sardi, Vitamin B6 apparently works better than many medications to lower blood pressure.

High dose arginine has been shown to lower blood pressure, perhaps by expanding arteries/veins.

Many people who adopt Linus Pauling's therapy for cardiovascular disease (vitamin C and lysine) report drops in elevated blood pressure.

First, I was taught that the reason medicine measures blood pressure is because a small narrowing in the arterial circumference causes and exponential rise in blood pressure, ergo, doctors are indirectly measuring heart disease and atherosclerotic plaque (arterial narrowing).

Two, high blood pressure under stress is normal (the fight-or-flight response) as the higher blood pressure helps push nutrients into cells. So having high blood pressure, say when visiting a doctor, may not be something to worry about, unless it is constant.

[leshoward]

NMR RESULTS:

LDL-P 1451
LDL-C 83
HDL-C 64
TRI’S 61
TOTAL CHOL 159
HDL-P(TOTAL) 35.2
SMALL LDL-P 540
LDL SIZE: 20.7
INSULIN RESISTANCE SCORE:
LP-IR SCORE 21

VAP RESULTS:

LDL CHOLESTEROL: 100
HDL CHOLESTEROL: 67
VLDL 17
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL: 185
TRI'S 81
LP(a) 10
VLDL-3(SMALL REMNANT): 11
LDL DENSITY PATTERN: A (LARGE BUOYANT LDL)

****Both tests were performed May 23, 2013 while on 10mg Lipitor*** WOuld love to eliminate Lipitor....Any thoughts would be much appreciated..! Thanks!

[ofonorow]

Hi Les,
Merged your old post

Significant difference in total cholesterol. NMR has you at 160 - too low, but what mine has been after starting lysine/proline.

VAP has you near the perfect Pauling/Ginter score of 180.

So, it would be interesting to know what your Cholesterol levels settle to after weaning off statin drugs (drugs that inhibit coQ10 - leading to heart failure, cause memory lapses, can lead to loss of muscle tissue and pain in muscles, cataracts (when combined with certain antibiotics), and of course deplete your body of what it is trying to make to counter either heart disease or some toxicity - cholesterol!. Contrary to often repeated medical fiction, these drugs have never been shown to help heart patients in any meaningful way. Their use simply increases the wealth of cardiogists and heart surgeons.)

The Lp(a) score of 10 is probably high normal? More than 10 is problematic. This is a measured score (as the 79 number was probably "calculated") and it may have come down some since you started lysine/proline.

[leshoward]

Owen....Just a little more background...I reduced my Lipitor dose to 10mg daily on May 1, 2013....Prior to that , I was on 20mg Mon thru Fri only...So I went from 100mg/week, to 70mg/week, as of 5-1-2013....I am stopping the Lipitor completely as of June 1st...Also, since early April, I take 4Gms Mercola Liposomal V-C..And I have been trying to take 1500mg Lysine & 1500mg Proline in Pill form(Solgar)...Have been somewhat inconsistent with that...
I was on the Cardio Tech a few months back and experienced some possible Colitis issues...I plan to resume Cardio C at some point soon....My 5-23-2013 Blood results are really all over the map...VAP Total Chol shows 185, NMR TC is 159, and the Total Chol per the normal Lipid Panel shows 172.....Three tests all with different results...Any comment? Thanks!

Let me know what other figures you might need..

[ofonorow]

This is a press release, or soon will be, about Livon's analysis of the Mercola "liposomes."

Review of Dr. Mercola® Liposomal Vitamin C by LivOn Laboratories Inc.

Over the years, Dr. Joseph Mercola has done a commendable job of promoting natural ways to maintain good health. He is highly regarded by millions of people for the information he has shared with the public regarding the dangers of vaccines and fluoride, the benefits of proper nutrition and supplements, and more.

This is why we were disappointed to see the deceptive information Dr. Mercola recently released in promotion of his company’s new Liposomal Vitamin C dietary supplement.
The fact is: The product is NOT liposomal. In other words, there are NO liposomes in it.

Just reinforcing what we seem to be continual telling people.

Regular powdered vitamin C is cheap and effective.

Homemade "emulsified" so-called liposomal C is better, probably because the vitamin is protected by the lipid, and more reaches the blood stream. (It may very well be that the Mercola product will fall into this category.)

True liposomal products with 60 nanometer liposomes are clearly best, and miraculous for infections, etc. i.e. Lypo-C.

Note: There is apparently one homemade method that seems to approach the commercial results clinically, true nanoparticles, but until it is verified, we are not yet read to promote it.

[ofonorow]

Hope this is the right topic But probably applies to most cardiologists...

My cardiologist insist I NOT stop the Lipitor, and even go back to 20mgs….Keeps quoting to me the many ”thousands” of patients studied where the statin lowers risk for CAD/events….I wanna shoot him!!!!!!!!

johnwen, what is the response to the false claim that "thousands of patients who CAD risks/events were reduced?" Thx

I know that it won't help convince any doctor, but it can give the patient some peace of mind to read the Hickey book TARNISHED GOLD. It is perhaps the most important book ever written (at least in the medical field) and clearly explains how such false claims can be fabricated under the guise of statistics and "evidence based medicine," and fool some of the smartest and most highly educated people in our society - medical doctors.

[Johnwen]

The numbers on the test result would make any cholesterol head doctor happy! The question would be, “Does this make you immune to heart disease?” Simple answer is, “NO!” Here’s one of those little hidden facts that I see almost everyday and I’m sure has been more then suppressed by now, there use to be a couple of studies floating around but I’m pretty sure they got, gone by now. About 80-to 85 percent of the patients having their chest cracked open for bypass surgery have a Total Cholesterol reading of between 160-180 rare finds is anything over 200. 3 of 4 have been on statins for more then 1 year. Of course the drug companies claim that they are not low enough on “LDL” but Total Cholesterol is a calculation and to get the numbers seen LDL has to be under the 100 but that fact gets over looked.

Anyway your dumping statins on June 1st good! Be aware that if you do any testing during the month of June your numbers will be High. Your Doc will be grapping his script pad and be writing dozens of scripts for STATINS to get you back in line. Don’t this is a normal reaction of your liver coming back to life and is known as a rebound effect.

As far as your gut issues. I have a similar problem with what could be called loading. This is where you take larger then normal doses of V-C at one time and do this a couple times a day usually results in a trip to the bathroom. However what is called a Steady State dosage has worked well for me for the past 12 years. After testing it appears I hit Bowel tolerance at 2500Mg Therefore since I want to take 8000Mg. A day it goes like this I take 2000Mg after breakfast and after supper. Then during the day at approx 4 hour intervals I take a 1000Mg. Cap. Making sure I don’t consume any type of Carbs. For 1 hour prior or ½ hour after, to taking the Cap. I take my L-Lysine with the 2000Mg. Doses. The 2000 let’s me know it’s there but doesn’t send me running. Of course the lypo might be the answer for you but I haven’t used them so I’ll let Owen guide you on it’s usage. Remember a Healthy Liver is your bodies first line of defense so don’t try to stop it from doing what it’s suppose to do or beat it up to try and keep it from protecting you!

[ofonorow]

Thank you johnwen.
Here's a thought.

The next time you see your cardiologist, after saying you don't care much about statistics, ask him/her how many, ( any? ) of his patients have recovered, or even gotten better on statins?

Of course there will probably be some - those who found out about vitamin C/ lysine/proline on the Internet, and are taking Pauling's protocol behind his back!

Story from my book. My first cousin required an angioplasty a long time ago.

This cousin, in his sixties, is highly intelligent. He has absolute and implicit faith in his doctors, and after the angioplasty, he has followed his cardiologist's recommendations to the letter. (And he rarely gets a good nights sleep! sigh)

By the way, he also thinks I am crazy.

However, did I say that he was intelligent? He did add supplements, including vitamin C and CoQ10 - as insurance.

At one point, several years ago, we were at a family get together, and he told me that his cardiologist told him he was fabulous and that he had "graduated" from his program and did not require regular visits. The cardiologist then told him that he was the "only" one of his patient that had graduated from the program.

Think about that?

This anecdote provides a clue! If this doctor was not highly unusual (great reputation by the way), not many heart patients "graduate" from s Cardiologist's care on statins alone.

[leshoward]

Jonwen...Would I better off taking 10mg Lipitor every other day for a month to wean off? Or perhaps breaking the pill in half to take 5mg a day for a month..

[Johnwen]

As you can see by my prior post I said “Don’t beat up your liver”
Ok lets look at statins. Statins are blocking Agents to the liver correct?
Have you ever drove in a big city where every block there’s a traffic signal and just as you get to a intersection the light turns red! After a while it’s starts playing on you and when the day is done you feel like someone has beat you up. One day 10Mg “Stop light” Next day nothing “Green light” Next 10Mg “Red light” With this routine I think you can see what doing to your liver your beating it up! With any drug titration up and titration down is the safest way to not shock your body this is done with steady/daily administration.
So I would have to say 5mg daily for a month would be the safest way to go if you have enough pills to accomplish this. During this time you can start working your way up with your V-C, Lysine etc. and when the fog from the statins starts to disappear you know your body is being taken care of and not being deprived of a necessary element of life.