Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

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Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 02, 2014 10:24 am

Dear Owen,
In December 2013 I was found to have high blood pressure ( some systolic readings above 200 but, over a week, mostly between
160 and 190 ) and high cholesterol ( total 9.2, HDL 2.24, LDL 6.09, ratio 3.62 ). My doctor put me on Amlodipine, 5mg. a day.But
I was keen to try to cure my atherosclerosis and have now been taking Cardio C three times a day for a month, gradually increasing
the amount and it's now about 12gm. a day. I feel much better, having more energy, and can now go up steep hills without having
to stop quite often. I am aged 74, slim and generally fit and do yoga. Today I saw my doctor for a review and was disappointed that
the cholesterol is not significantly down ( total 7.7 ) and the blood pressure, at 148 systolic, is still far higher than she would like.
And, to cap it all, being able to go easily up steep hills is neither here nor there as my condition is symptomless.
I have read your book Practicing Medicine Without A License and find it very convincing, but all the case histories seem to be about
'miracle cures' to very severely ill people; is Cardio C not for me, or maybe I'm too impatient: would you not expect results in a
month? I have two more tubs and intend to persevere.
Yours, Janet.


What is the problem/issue? I am not familiar with your units, but the total of 9.2 dropped to 7.7. Usually takes a while as the cholesterol that dissolves off the arteries has to be expelled. What is your Lp(a) cholesterol? (The really important number).

You are correct that if you do not have severe pain, it is hard to judge benefit, but you said you feel better, have more energy and can climb steeper hills. So the numbers scare you, but even the BP is down some. There are other nutrients, esp vitamin E and CoQ10 that could be important for you.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Fri May 02, 2014 4:43 pm

First of all a 17% reduction in total cholesterol in one month is a BIG DROP!!!
An is outstanding considering she's talking amlodipine! A person with such high numbers as hers needs to be on a different CCB!
Amlodipine is a FIASMA and not the best route to try to correct high numbers but her doc is probably shooting for statins anyway!
Math Lesson!
To convert MMOL/L To MG/DL you multiply all but triglcerides by 38.67.
Example 9.2 = 9.2X38.67=355.764 or 356
For TRI's use 88.57
Ratio is HDL divided into TOTAL Cholesterol.

So her numbers are:
Total 356Mg/dL Then NOW 297 17% Reduction!!!
HDL 87 Mg/dL
LDL 235 Mg/Dl
Ratio is 4.09 Not 3.62???? Ideal Ratio Is 3.5!!!
So I agree with OWEN STAY THE COURSE But I will add have her doc pick another CCB for her. Nifidipine?????
Since she didn't give TRI's My guess is about 290Mg/dL or 3.28MMOL/L
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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 06, 2014 7:04 am

Dear Owen,
Thank you and Dr. John Wench for your replies. I'd like to clarify the timings: my cholesterol was found to be high 4th Dec. '13. I started taking Amlodipine 10th Jan. and on 12th March it had gone down the 17% that Dr. Wench worked out. I began taking Cardio C. at the beginning of April, since when my cholesterol has not gone down and I understand from your mail why that may be.
So the drop was over 3 months, 2 of them on Amlodipine. I feel I should ask my doctor to change the CCB to something more effective but I just wanted to check that the above doesn't alter his advice. With many thanks for your time, Janet.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Tue May 06, 2014 9:40 am

First I’d like to clarify what I’m talking about.
Amolodipine is a known function inhibitor of Acid sphingomyelinase, which is a enzyme that converts cholesterol to ceramides. Ceramides are the lipids that give the cells their durability and control apoptosis (cell death) and regeneration. Although Amlodipine or any other FIASMA does not completely stop this action it does contribute to a deficiency of production which adds to excess cholesterol not being used and remains in the blood. With numbers as high as hers every little bit helps! Most doctor’s are not aware of this action therefore expect blank looks if you ask them about it!!

Do a search on “FIASMA” wiki has a good list of them, if you take any other
Ones listed, it might be a good idea to talk to your doc about them also!

I would say the initial drop in cholesterol was probably due to the fact that she was made aware of her situation and took some evasive action such as diet change or dumping soda for water or cutting down on snacks or the like.
Which gave fast results!!

Now she needs to stay on course with these changes the body needs time to adjust it’s self. Taking V-C is a step in the right direction. But she should also start taking a look at her glucose levels which I suspect are also high. Then start working on getting them down. Look into other things like Omega-3’s vitamin d etc. to get these numbers back in range by using these sugars for strength and not harm! Then she’ll start seeing the other numbers start to fall.
As far as time it’ll will take some!

Of course if you want to just get the cholesterol numbers in line and don’t care what happens to the rest of the body!! I’m sure your doc will write you a script for statins. Then she’ll have some real problems!!!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#5  Post by janet » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:47 pm

Jonwen suggested my triglycerides and my glucose level might be high. However, on12th March 2014
I had a private health screening, with fasting blood tests, and everything was good apart from
Cholesterol ( LDL 5.14; total 7.7 ) and blood pressure ( 161/79 ). Triglycerides .95 mmol/L and
Glucose 4.45 mmol/L.
And, now aged 74, I was chuffed that they gave my metabolic age as 59 years and my lung age as
51 years.
On 1st May my doctor changed me from Amlodipine to Nifedipine which I asked for on Jonwen’s advice. She wouldn’t have chosen that, since it is also a CCB and she thought the declining effectiveness, after initial good lowering, would apply with that too.
I had one very good low reading 10 days ago (117/75), but a week later it was 139/90. I’m aiming to
Be below 120/80. IF, when I go for my review on 11th June, she says I must change to another drug
(which isn’t a CCB) what do I do? Are there some that you would not recommend? And how do I persuade her not to put me on statins if my cholesterol is still high? I find it hard work and rather
worrying being ‘Alternative’!
Any advice would be very welcome, thanks, Janet.

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:10 pm

Hi Janet:
Let us first look at your cholesterol. I will convert them first to Mg/dL so others here in the states can understand them.
Your total is 298 Total (7.7)
Your ldl is 197 (5.14)
Your Tri’s are 84 (.95)
Calc. HDL is 85 (2.2)
Your Glucose is 80.1 (4.5)
Your Ratio is 3.50588 (which is ideal target)
Your ldl was 235 Now 197 a 16% reduction
So it appears your on the right course but a question keep’s coming to mind that being, “Are you of Oriental decent??”
Normally the figures you present are somewhat characteristic of this class of people.
It appears you are in a British country or colony by the word “chuffed” which I know to mean “pleasantly surprised” like a lorry that arrives on time!

The only way to decipher if you are in a safe or dangerous zone is a VAP test. (Vertical auto profile test ;-) ) Where they report Not only the sub particles of the cholesterol but also gives a picture of the LP(a) which is the important factor in heart disease and other internal injuries. That would be up to your doc and you but if she wants you on statins I would get this done first!
Now on to the BP.
Here again it takes time! If you where 20 or 30ish I would say seeing results in 1 or 2 weeks would be expected, unfortunately as we get older things take longer to happen. Given your age, I would not expect to see any positive results or make any changes for at least 4 to 5 weeks usage of any drug. You are getting the blips where you are high and then low and soon they will level off and you will know how effective the drug really is for you and adjustments can be made. But I have a feeling that you are going to have to take at least 2 or more drugs to get you stable. The reason being is if one drug takes you to a good level when your body releases it and your levels of the drug are the highest your BP may drop to low.
Now on to what is good and what is bad. Normally Tier 1 BP meds which are Ace inhibiters, CCB’s, ARB’s. are quite effective. The order I placed them here is my preference. ACE being the first try since they have the fewest ad verse reactions. Enalapril maleate is the old stand by, here anything under 20 mg. per day has very few side effects. It is relatively cheap and widely available. The stay away from drugs for a person who hasn’t had a coronary event is Beta Blockers. The bad boy here is carvedilol which isn’t produced in compliance with, “Lipinsky’s rule of five.” It can have some serious reactions in a small group of people and has the same side effects as amlodipine in them. Are you in that group? Who knows?? “So why chance it ? ” Once again there are many other options without the risk.

Be up front with your Doc and let her know how much V-C you’re taking and your other supp’s. If she starts babbling about Kidney stones. Tell her this has been debunked many times and is a ploy by big pharma to scare people.
If you search this forum you’ll see we talked about this many times and there’s a lot of documentation here about this Busted Myth!
If you do anything stay the course with Pauling therapy it’s the real key to real health!
Again Remember things take time, Be patient!
Hope this helps!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#7  Post by exitium » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:07 am

janet wrote:Jonwen suggested my triglycerides and my glucose level might be high. However, on12th March 2014
I had a private health screening, with fasting blood tests, and everything was good apart from
Cholesterol ( LDL 5.14; total 7.7 ) and blood pressure ( 161/79 ). Triglycerides .95 mmol/L and
Glucose 4.45 mmol/L.
And, now aged 74, I was chuffed that they gave my metabolic age as 59 years and my lung age as
51 years.
On 1st May my doctor changed me from Amlodipine to Nifedipine which I asked for on Jonwen’s advice. She wouldn’t have chosen that, since it is also a CCB and she thought the declining effectiveness, after initial good lowering, would apply with that too.
I had one very good low reading 10 days ago (117/75), but a week later it was 139/90. I’m aiming to
Be below 120/80. IF, when I go for my review on 11th June, she says I must change to another drug
(which isn’t a CCB) what do I do? Are there some that you would not recommend? And how do I persuade her not to put me on statins if my cholesterol is still high? I find it hard work and rather
worrying being ‘Alternative’!
Any advice would be very welcome, thanks, Janet.


Your BP could be a side effect of clogged arteries and it will take some time on pauling therapy for them to regain their flexibility. As for your cholesterol, I would move to 3grams niacin a day before I ever took statins. Keep in mind not all forms of niacin work on cholesterol and if using plain old flush niacin you want to slowly build up the dose over weeks.

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#8  Post by janet » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:47 am

No Oriental blood: I’m English and live a quiet life ( though I play a lot of music ) on the edge of Dartmoor in South West England.
Your advice, Jonwen, was most helpful and reassuring and my doctor has added 2.5mg Enalapril Maleate to the daily 30mg Nifidipine that I’ve been taking for a month now.
Unfortunately the VAP test is unavailable on our National Health Service: we expect a free service,
having paid for it in taxes. If I were to fork out £255 for a private test and was found to be ‘in danger’
What next, since statins are not an option?
I’ve always eaten healthily and have now added hemp oil, wheatgerm, ground seeds ( including flax )
Nuts, more oily fish, pulses and am now taking co enzyme Q 10.Plus 4gm 3 times per day Cardio C.
Also trying Diatomaceous Earth---am I mad?

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#9  Post by jimmylesante » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:02 pm

Hi Janet
For your age i think you are in fantastic shape and had a great drop in total cholesterol.
Personally i'd drop the wheatgerm and flax and triple up on the oily fish. I'd also saturate with Magnesium, whether it be magnesium chloride,epsom salt baths etc. I'd also take Niacin. However Johnwen and Owen are far more experienced than i.
Try Holland and Barrett- they have a good 50%off cod liver omega oil and others.
Failing that perhaps lay off the cream teas and stop watching those RM's yomping past your house ;)

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#10  Post by davids1 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:02 pm

Hi Janet,

For what it might be worth to you, [and in case it has not crossed your mind], as "grist for your mill," if it were me, I would definitely be ingesting a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid every day.

Just my viewpoint and "two cents worth,"

David
JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#11  Post by janet » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:20 pm

Cholesterol & Blood Pressure still high after over 7 months on Cardio C.
My blood pressure varies hugely, the latest three readings (at one sitting) being:
157/92 154/91 140/89. The only 'good' reading was 117/75 in May. I understand it should be below 120/80.
My cholesterol, having been coming down steadily till June (total 7.2, HDL 2.28, LDL 4.49)
is now: total 9.3, HDL 2.49, LDL 6.27, marginally higher than a year ago. Does this mean that
Cardio C is not right for me?
I also use an earthing sheet on my bed, take Diatomaceous Earth, Ubiquinol (Q10) and full
spectrum fish oil. Also the B.P. lowering drugs suggested by Jonwen and prescribed by my
doctor: Adalat(nifedipine) 30mg & Enalapril Maleate 2.5mg. We had an unusually sunny summer
but I had to keep my face out of the sunlight as my skin was very sensitive, going red and dry and
scaley; could this be a side effect of Enalapril Maleate? My doctor doesn't think it likely. She would like to up the dosage or
change to another drug to lower my B.P. further. Any suggestions would be very welcome.
With many thanks to all of you who have responded in the past, Janet Wellingham.

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Re: Cholesterol and BP still high after 1 month

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:32 am

Not trying to get in the way of a another response by johnwen, but you seem concerned about two problems. Continued high blood pressure and elevated cholesterol.

First, elevated cholesterol is a symptom. It is a "tool" you body uses to help rid itself of the underlying toxins or disease that is afflicting you. When you overcome that - say if it is heart disease - your cholesterol will lower "naturally." More vitamin C usually speeds this process. (However, some people have massive dental work emitting a flood of toxins, and the body will create more cholesterol in response in an effort to attach to the toxin and rid the body of it.)

Johnwen is an expert on high blood pressure and the drugs used to combat it, but here is what I think I know. A small narrowing of the artery can have an exponential effect increasing blood pressure. (So it is measured to give an indication of arterial narrowing). High blood pressure is a natural response to eminent stress, as the arteries can contract, constricting blood flow and raising blood pressure. So a better reading might be away from the doctors office! Another way that blood pressure can rise is if the arteries become calcified and harden. The ability the artery to expand or dilate is reduced, making any potential clot that much more dangerous. The way I have seen people with "hard" or "stiff" arteries deal with this condition successfully is by taking vitamin K, esp. K2. (And note many heart drugs counteract vitamin K - leading to rapid calcification of soft tissues.) So if you aren't already taking a good vitamin K (e.g. Super-K from LEF.ORG) you might start and let us know what happens. We know it can work within a year (decalcification) but would like to know if it can be done in less time.
Owen R. Fonorow
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