FAQ for pauling therapy'?

[blade]

I have people I want to share the Pauling therapy/this site with.
I'll have my hands on Practicing Medicine Without A License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease" in about 10 days
but what page/link can I send non-science people to look at and understand Pauling therapy and LpA easily without a lot of hard concepts??

Telling people to "use more vitamin C, 6+ grams" makes me sound a little nuts,
These people know the anti-vitamin C and its on TV shows. ONe that comes to mind is HOUSE, md, "Whatever It Takes" / where a MD tried to use vitamin C to destroy the polio virus.

So saying VitC/lysine can prevent/reverse CHD is WAY in left field/

thanks guys

[blade]

Q:
Vit C\ascorbic acid helps iron absorbtion.
Would Pauling Therapy mean I absorb more iron and should donate blood a few times a year?



Pauling’s theory is consistent with recent understanding of how atherosclerosis stems from blood vessel wall damage. The theory ultimately boils down to subclinical vitamin C deficiency resulting in poor collagen formation and blood vessel walls susceptible to damage.

[ofonorow]

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.. It can be lonely, as THEY have been able to frame vitamin C in the same way that UFO's have been framed to the public, making people afraid to talk about them. Thank you Linus Pauling for telling the truth!

I think Irwin Stone was on the right track with his book THE HEALING FACTOR (http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/stone/). His thesis was that we all suffer from the same genetic disease. In fact every vitamin we require in our diet is due to some ancient mutation that was overcome because the molecule was available in the diet as food. Vitamin C is different as shown by the few species there are alive today who lost the ability to make it.

So rather than promote vitamin C as the answer to cancer, or colds/flu, or even heart disease, which makes it seem like the ultimate snake oil, I think we all should try to focus on the fact, when talking to friends or doctors, that taking vitamin C is essentially treating a genetic "disease" that we are all born with. (All these ills are consequences of not treating the disease.)

I am making an attempt on our main page (Second story starting with "THE THING YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT VITAMIN C" on our main http://www.vitamincfoundation.org page) to develop and convey this message. I'd appreciate feedback of comments, as I hope to send a more developed article to Life Extension for consideration in their magazine.

By the way, I eat red meet (these days without nitrates and grass fed) and I even take Iron pills, yet my iron is LOW. If you want to have your ferritin checked, makes sense, but the answer if ferritin is high is more vitamin C (to neutralize and detox) and perhaps an iron chelator like IP-6.

[blade]

[color=#000080]Welcome to the Twilight Zone.. It can be lonely, as THEY have been able to frame vitamin C in the same way that UFO's have been framed to the public, making people afraid to talk about them. Thank you Linus Pauling for telling the truth!

I think Irwin Stone was on the right track with his book THE HEALING FACTOR (http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/stone/). His thesis was that we all suffer from the same genetic disease. In fact every vitamin we require in our diet is due to some ancient mutation that was overcome because the molecule was available in the diet as food. Vitamin C is different as shown by the few species there are alive today who lost the ability to make it.

What you are saying is we need vitamin C.
I think everyone knows that
(cept 1912 when these scientists who forgot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Nova_Expedition )

no vitamin C will give you scurvy, so we take enough Vit C to avoid scurvy,(WebMD says For scurvy: 100-500[b]mg/day) but that's just not enough
Vit C is required for many chemical reactions in the body, from carnitine and sperm production to immune function in dealing with colds, cancer et
http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/How ... works.html

Even webMD admts Vit C :Hardening of the arteries (atherosclerosis). Taking vitamin C by mouth seems to decrease the risk of artery hardening. Vitamin C also appears to slow the rate at which artery hardening worsens. More research is needed to understand the effects of vitamin C intake from the diet or supplements on this condition once it has developed.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplemen ... bic%20acid

[ofonorow]

What you are saying is we need vitamin C.
I think everyone knows that

Do they? Do people these days know how important it is, say for their child, to SUPPLEMENT vitamin C, or are they brainwashed to think they get enough in food?

Pauling agrees that a mere 10 mg can prevent frank scurvy.

The argument is how much past the miniscule vitamin dosages is required. The argument spans orders of magnitude!
With authority of the RDA (lets say) 100 mg, our recommendation of 3000 mg, and Pauling's recommendation of 6000 to 18000 mg.

[blade]

What you are saying is we need vitamin C.
I think everyone knows that

Do they? Do people these days know how important it is, say for their child, to SUPPLEMENT vitamin C, or are they brainwashed to think they get enough in food?

Pauling agrees that a mere 10 mg can prevent frank scurvy.

The argument is how much past the miniscule vitamin dosages is required. The argument spans orders of magnitude!
With authority of the RDA (lets say) 100 mg, our recommendation of 3000 mg, and Pauling's recommendation of 6000 to 18000 mg.

You are right, no everyone realizes how vital Vitamin C is to their health.
I mentioned the "scientists" who went to the south pole and forget about Vit C on a 3 yr journey to the South Pole and got scurvy!

British scientists who took a three year journey to the South Pole, and packed nothing but biscuits, canned fat, cocoa, butter and sugar, which was supplemented by their horses when the starving time came. Despite the fact that it was almost 200 years after the cure for scurvy was discovered by one of their own damned countrymen, they were plum baffled when everyone got scurvy.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_18533_th ... z3OdAwOM84

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Nova ... #Aftermath

[blade]

My dad is a type 2 diabetic
I put him on vitamin C for his A-fib/heart disease.

Question: Vitamin C raises blood sugars?

how does he get around this?
so he can take 6+grams of vitamin C and not raise his blood sugars?
I can't imagine that people who have CAD all don't have diabetes, some likely do
Thoughts?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3254006/
Supplementation of Vitamin C Reduces Blood Glucose and Improves Glycosylated Hemoglobin in Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus: A Randomized, Double-Blind Study

I am finding lots of studies that say how Vitamin C helps diabetics, lowers fast glucose and lowers A1c.


This study shows VItC helps reduce A1c
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3254006/


So does this study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8141285
Plasma vitamin C affects glucose homeostasis in healthy subjects and in non-insulin-dependent diabetics.
In conclusion, plasma vitamin C levels seem to play a role in the modulation of insulin action in aged healthy and diabetic subjects.

so it does in this one in which is a good one, as they gave the Vit C-1-3 grams/ at night and 12 hour fast

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15314445
Effect of vitamin C supplementation on blood sugar and antioxidative status in types II diabetes mellitus patients
The results suggest that megadose vitamin C supplementation may have a beneficial effect in diabetes mellitus patients on both glycemic control and antioxidant status

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Maybe it's the meter giving a false reading?

Pseudohypoglycemia or hyperglycemia caused by interference with self-monitoring blood glucose measurements in anticancer ascorbic acid therapy
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12108/full
Self-monitoring blood glucose (SMBG) meters are now commonly used in diabetes management[1]. Many drugs, including ascorbic acid, are known to interfere with glucose measurements using these meters[2]. However, so far, misdiagnosis caused by interference has rarely occurred at the conventional doses. Recently, intravenous high-dose ascorbic acid treatment has been widely used in 11,233 patients in 2006 and 8,876 patients in 2008 in the USA as one of the complementary and alternative medicines for infection and fatigue, as well as various cancers[3, 4].

A 71-year-old woman with advanced esophageal cancer and diabetes presented to the Department of Metabolic Medicine, Osaka University Hospital, Suita, Japan, for glycemic control in November 2012. At the first visit, her glycosylated hemoglobin level was 8.8%. SMBG was carried out using the Medisafe® meter (TERUMO Corp., Tokyo, Japan) to determine the dosage of regular insulin before every meal. One day, she was given a high ascorbic acid dose (50 g) in another hospital. Her blood ascorbic acid concentration just after administration was 342 μg/mL (normal range 4.7–17.8 μg/mL), and her blood glucose level determined with the Medisafe® meter was below 1.1 mmol/L, which was ‘low’. Simultaneously, glucose levels were measured using the Glucocard® meter (ARKRAY Inc., Kyoto, Japan). According to the Glucocard® meter, her blood glucose level was above 33.3 mmol/L, which was “high.” She had neither hypoglycemic nor hyperglycemic symptoms. The fasting blood glucose level (9.3 mmol/L) determined with the Medisafe® meter 2 days after administration was close to the level (9.2 mmol/L) determined using the intra-hospital laboratory test based on the hexokinase method (Quickauto-Neo GLU-HK; SHINO-TEST Corp., Tokyo, Japan) and using an automated analyzer (JCA-BM6050; JEOL Ltd., Tokyo, Japan). Then, the treatment with intravenous high-dose ascorbic acid was discontinued with her consent. We prepared blood samples that contained 4.4 and 11.1 mmol/L glucose, and 0–500 μg/mL ascorbic acid. The glucose levels increased in accordance with the increased ascorbic acid concentrations using the Glucocard® meter, whereas they decreased using the Medisafe® meter. However, the glucose levels measured using the intrahospital laboratory test did not change in response to any ascorbic acid concentration (Figure 1).
image

Figure 1. Glucose measurement interference after administration of various concentrations of ascorbic acid. Glucose concentrations were measured using Medisafe® (diamond symbols) and Glucocard® (triangular symbols) blood glucose meters, and an intra-hospital laboratory test that was based on the hexokinase method (square symbols) in various concentrations of ascorbic acid. Blood samples were prepared at concentrations of 4.4 mmol/L (solid line) and 11.1 mmol/L (dotted line) glucose. The upper and the lower measurement limits using these glucose meters were 33.3 mmol/L and 1.1 mmol/L glucose, respectively.

The Medisafe® meter is based on the colorimetric method, which is applied to several types of Accu-Chek® meters (Roche Diagnostics, Mannheim, Germany), whereas the Glucocard® meter is based on the electrochemical method, which is applied to many glucose meters, including the One Touch Ultra® (LifeScan Inc., Milpitas, CA, USA), FreeStyle® (Abbott Diabetes Care, Alamdea, CA, USA) and Contour® (Bayer Healthcare, Tarrytown, NY, USA) meters. As hydrogen peroxide is consumed by ascorbic acid, less hydrogen peroxide is available to react with the dye on the test strips, leading to falsely lower glucose readings by the Medisafe® meter. In contrast, ascorbic acid is oxidized at the electrode surface, and more electrons and more current are produced, leading to falsely higher glucose readings by the Glucocard® meter[2]. The critical glucose measurement interferences by high-dose ascorbic acid could cause inappropriate insulin therapy or glucose administration, resulting in serious hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia. We need to understand that this type of interference occurs at the bedside; therefore, blood glucose levels just after intravenous administration of high-dose ascorbic acid should be measured using the hexokinase method, not with these SMBG meters.


and
http://www.pdiconnect.com/content/29/4/377.full

Seems what kind of method you use to test blood is vital as AA can fool meters
Comparison between glucose data (expressed as mg/dL) obtained by glucose dehydrogenase (GDH)-based point-of-care and the hexokinase (HK) reference method in CAPD patients (difference: 57 ± 28 mg/dL, p < 0.01; n = 16).
http://www.pdiconnect.com/content/29/4/ ... nsion.html

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Q: When do I take Vitamin C?


Take Vitamin C when fasting as Vit C can increase iron uptake(high iron is not good)
and
Glut-1 receptor that activates in response to insulin to allow both glucose and vitamin C to enter the cell
However, glucose has a greater affinity for the insulin receptor. This means that the greater the content of circulating blood sugar the less vitamin C will enter the cell.

http://www.naturalnews.com/034185_gluco ... min_c.html


--I'd hate to give fasle info, is this right?
I'd think to clear out plaques, you dont want Vitamin C in cells, but in the blood stream, so maybe you'd want to not fast when working to clear your arteries?
I lack the knowledge/experience to know.
Thanks

[blade]

My lysine and my vit C both look the same. So I asked my supplier why they look the same.
I get my stuff from Purebulk.com
Hi Blade,

The Ascorbic Acid and the L-Lysine do look the same, because they are both white powders, and yes they are both pure products.
There are conflicting studies on the Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) about the lowering of fbs and the cholesterol levels, depends on what studies you read. The only study they seem to all agree upon, is that if a person has diabetes the Vitamin C can raise blood sugar levels. I would recommend talking to a health care professional about you situation. If you have any further questions please e-mail me.

Thank you

Have a great day


so if taking Vitamin C dose raise blood sugar, how do I proceed? I looked in Owens book and found no answer.
Just take smaller doses of VitC through the day to add up to 15+ grams?
thanks

[ofonorow]

While I applaud your attempts to read the existing science, I highly recommend a book that should cure you of the desire to read today's medical "science.". True science works, but what medicine call science is often propaganda to market pharmaceutical products. It has to be good enough to fool quite a few intelligent people - medical doctors. I highly recommend the book TARNISHED GOLD (by Hickey/Roberts lulu.com/ascorbate).

As a test, Do you believe that a study with a large number of subjects is better science or a small study with far fewer subjects? (Answer at the bottom).

For me, any understanding the basic value in what you are looking at, the Hickey book is a must!

Back to this topic. There are lots of statements that simply are not true in this post.

#1. Vitamin C does not raise blood sugar! (In my own case, while I was following Pauling and taking 18,000 mg, my blood sugar on professional lab tests was always 90 mg/dl on the button. For many many years.)

Realize that if the blood concentration of vitamin C is 1.5 mg/dl (max) and glucose is 90 mg/dl, then vitamin C is only 1% of blood compared to glucose and almost impossible to raise for more than 30 minutes (before the kidneys do their job).

IV/C dosages have been measured to raise blood concentrations by thousands of times, and these concentrations can effect some glucose meters (which register both glucose and ascorbate.)

So your dad has no worried that vitamin C might raise his sugar. As you mention, vitamin C is good for Type II diabetics. Perhaps you should start a topic on lowering blood sugar? We have discussed that here at length, but not in a single post.

I haven't mentioned this in a while, hope the web site is still there, but a fellow cured his own Type II diabetes by looking at the old (buried) scientific literature. The story and his protocol (basically avoid trans fats) used to be at healingmatters.com. Yes Thomas Smith is still there and this is the article I saw in a magazine that led me to Smith's web site. http://healingmatters.com/deception.htm

#2 If high vitamin C (GULO-Replacement) caused one to retain too much Iron, why am I of all people anemic? Low iron and my doctor recommends iron supplements. This leads into a discussion of Russell Jaffee and vitamin C's special affinity for metals (which allows vitamin C to grab metals such as lead, iron, mercury, etc. - and help the body get rid of them through the urine.) Copper is an interesting question, but not here and not now.

#3 I'll deal with the cholesterol issue in another post, but Pauling cites Ginter (many of his abstracts in our Clinical Studies forum) and determined that in humans, high vitamin C will normalize cholesterol to 180 mg/dl. It is uncanny how many people on vitamin C report that number, including myself for many many years.


Answer to trivia question.
Small studies can measure large effects.
The massive studies usually conducted in medicine are so big because the effects are usually so small.
These massive studies are not "science" because they cannot be repeated by other scientists. A basic tenet of the scientific method.

[blade]

While I applaud your attempts to read the existing science, I highly recommend a book that should cure you of the desire to read today's medical "science.". True science works, but what medicine call science is often propaganda to market pharmaceutical products. It has to be good enough to fool quite a few intelligent people - medical doctors. I highly recommend the book TARNISHED GOLD (by Hickey/Roberts lulu.com/ascorbate).

As a test, Do you believe that a study with a large number of subjects is better science or a small study with far fewer subjects? (Answer at the bottom).

For me, any understanding the basic value in what you are looking at, the Hickey book is a must!

Back to this topic. There are lots of statements that simply are not true in this post.

#1. Vitamin C does not raise blood sugar! (In my own case, while I was following Pauling and taking 18,000 mg, my blood sugar on professional lab tests was always 90 mg/dl on the button. For many many years.)

Realize that if the blood concentration of vitamin C is 1.5 mg/dl (max) and glucose is 90 mg/dl, then vitamin C is only 1% of blood compared to glucose and almost impossible to raise for more than 30 minutes (before the kidneys do their job).

IV/C dosages have been measured to raise blood concentrations by thousands of times, and these concentrations can effect some glucose meters (which register both glucose and ascorbate.)

So your dad has no worried that vitamin C might raise his sugar. As you mention, vitamin C is good for Type II diabetics. Perhaps you should start a topic on lowering blood sugar? We have discussed that here at length, but not in a single post.

I haven't mentioned this in a while, hope the web site is still there, but a fellow cured his own Type II diabetes by looking at the old (buried) scientific literature. The story and his protocol (basically avoid trans fats) used to be at healingmatters.com. Yes Thomas Smith is still there and this is the article I saw in a magazine that led me to Smith's web site. http://healingmatters.com/deception.htm

#2 If high vitamin C (GULO-Replacement) caused one to retain too much Iron, why am I of all people anemic? Low iron and my doctor recommends iron supplements. This leads into a discussion of Russell Jaffee and vitamin C's special affinity for metals (which allows vitamin C to grab metals such as lead, iron, mercury, etc. - and help the body get rid of them through the urine.) Copper is an interesting question, but not here and not now.

#3 I'll deal with the cholesterol issue in another post, but Pauling cites Ginter (many of his abstracts in our Clinical Studies forum) and determined that in humans, high vitamin C will normalize cholesterol to 180 mg/dl. It is uncanny how many people on vitamin C report that number, including myself for many many years.


Answer to trivia question.
Small studies can measure large effects.
The massive studies usually conducted in medicine are so big because the effects are usually so small.
These massive studies are not "science" because they cannot be repeated by other scientists. A basic tenet of the scientific method.

I very much appreciate the long post.
you have answered many of my questions.
I think my dad's blood sugar issue as well as his afib, is because he has really low total Testostrone and T/E ratio(it should be 30+ and his is 7), fasting blood sugar 144
a1c 7
total cholesterol 114

Ive read enough to realize you want testosterone, so getting old is a pain, but he needs to start TRT, and keep his numbers under control

A Harvard expert shares his thoughts on testosterone-replacement therapy, its safe if you keep numbers under control
http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org ... nt-therapy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18832284
Low testosterone and the association with type 2 diabetes.

Reduced testosterone levels in males with lone atrial fibrillation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19143004

those are just some abstracts I pulled off pubmed, showcasing what I mean.

I read studies first hand accounts to know VC doesnt raise Glucose, if the meter can differentiate between VC and glucose, which most cheap meters cant

[ofonorow]

The diversion to testosterone, while interesting, is a little off track. Harvard trained Jonathan Wright
wrote this book for Male vitality and potency http://www.amazon.com/Maximize-Vitality-Potency-Jonathan-Wright/dp/0962741817/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422015589&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=jonathan+wright+male+hormones+testosterone which discusses the relationship between low testosterone and increased heart disease. (A doctor during World War I discovered that he could save the limbs of wounded soldiers with gangrene facing amputation by giving them testosterone injections. This treatment improves blood flow so much.)

The only problem with bioidentical testosterone hormone replacement (other than application - Wright recommends mimic'ing what the body does, perhaps injections of patches) is testicular atrophy. I guess when the gonads aren't required to make testosterone - because there is enough, they degrade.

My current passion, rejuvenation via telomere elongation, holds the promise of rejuvenating the glands that make our hormones, presumably eliminating the need for replacement therapy. Time will tell.

[blade]

The diversion to testosterone, while interesting, is a little off track. Harvard trained Jonathan Wright
wrote this book for Male vitality and potency http://www.amazon.com/Maximize-Vitality-Potency-Jonathan-Wright/dp/0962741817/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422015589&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=jonathan+wright+male+hormones+testosterone which discusses the relationship between low testosterone and increased heart disease. (A doctor during World War I discovered that he could save the limbs of wounded soldiers with gangrene facing amputation by giving them testosterone injections. This treatment improves blood flow so much.)

The only problem with bioidentical testosterone hormone replacement (other than application - Wright recommends mimic'ing what the body does, perhaps injections of patches) is testicular atrophy. I guess when the gonads aren't required to make testosterone - because there is enough, they degrade.

My current passion, rejuvenation via telomere elongation, holds the promise of rejuvenating the glands that make our hormones, presumably eliminating the need for replacement therapy. Time will tell.

Good stuff here, thanks
The MD I mentioned, Abraham Morgentaler,an associate professor of surgery at Harvard Medical School and the director of Men’s Health Boston, specializes in treating prostate diseases and male sexual and reproductive difficulties.
like this site is going against what is normally accepted. IE TRT promotes prostate cancer
http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org ... nt-therapy
I think that the biggest hurdle for most physicians prescribing testosterone is the fear that they’re going to promote prostate cancer. [See “Incongruous findings,” below.] That’s because more than six decades ago, it was shown that if you lowered testosterone in men whose prostate cancer had metastasized, their condition improved. (It became a standard therapy that we still use today for men with advanced prostate cancer. We call it androgen deprivation or androgen-suppressive therapy.) The thinking became that if lowering testosterone makes prostate cancer disappear, at least for a while, then raising it must make prostate cancer grow. But even though it’s been a widely held belief for six decades, no one has found any additional evidence to support the theory.

I have friends on TRT, one is a bodybuilder who uses much more than I think he should, but they all use HCG to prevent ball shrinkage.

[ofonorow]

Jonathan Wright and John Lee's books are convincing that prostate growth (cancers) result from an increase in estrogens in males - not testosterone per se.

First, the older men are, the higher the risk for prostate cancer. If testosterone was really the culprit, wouldn't it me more prevalent in young men with high testosterone levels?

Estrogens generally promote growth (e.g. during pregnancy) which can be counter-balanced by progesterone.

There is an enzyme system in men as we age that converts testosterone into Estrogens. Therein lies a problem.

It is the increase in female hormones ( Estrogens) that causing the prostate issues, in this school of thought, and you can take an enzyme inhibitor Arimidex/Anostrosole, to block this conversion of testosterone to estradiols.

Or you can do as I have done for years, rub a little bit of natural progesterone cream near your prostate