Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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blade

Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#61  Post by blade » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:23 am

gizmo1955 wrote:Anyone care to decipher the last couple of posts and advise if it relates to my situation? Going back to the cardiologist Tuesday and will be having a nuclear stress test. Have been on AA since August (to BT) and have seen little change .

vit C is part of PT, but not everything
have you been getting enough proline/lysine?
have you been taking vitamin K?

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#62  Post by gizmo1955 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:57 am

Sorry, should have indicated that yes, I have been the total PT including all the supplements recommended.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#63  Post by gizmo1955 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:02 am

To review from the beginning of the post:

1500 mg Metformin HCL ER
100mg Januvia
50-12.5mg Losartan /HCT
10mg Atorvastatin
400mg COQ10
200mcg Vitamin K-2
(2) Mature Multi Vitamin
(2) 1600 mg Omega 3-6-9
40g Ascorbic Acid (in 4 - 10g doses)
6g L-Lysine (3g morning and evening)
4.2g L-Proline (2.1g morning and evening)
6.2g L-Arginine (3.1g morning and evening)
2.4g L-Citruline (1.2g morning and evening)
30-45 drops 99% DMSO mixed with AA etc. (15 in morning, afternoon and evening)

Additionally, I would like to mention that for the last year I have been eating 95% plant based (McDougall)and was walking 2-3 miles a day but has been cut back a bit due to the angina.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#64  Post by nineboy » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:24 pm

Well not sure I am the one to answer. I have nine stents and they are bare metal stents. For me I think I'm glad they are not drug coated. They talked about it but then I was given no input into it at the end. For me I'd like to think I can keep them clear with my Pauling therapy. At this moment I am having no problems heart wise, my angina is gone for now. I wish you all the best and things do get better. Regards nineboy.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#65  Post by gizmo1955 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:06 pm

Thanks for the encouragement nine boy, I've got 7 stents and all are drug eluding except 1. After reviewing the forums here I wish mine were bare metal like yours. It will be interesting to see if any of them are the cause of the occasional angina.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#66  Post by ofonorow » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:09 am

gizmo1955 wrote:To review from the beginning of the post:

1500 mg Metformin HCL ER
100mg Januvia
50-12.5mg Losartan /HCT
10mg Atorvastatin
400mg COQ10
200mcg Vitamin K-2
(2) Mature Multi Vitamin
(2) 1600 mg Omega 3-6-9
40g Ascorbic Acid (in 4 - 10g doses)
6g L-Lysine (3g morning and evening)
4.2g L-Proline (2.1g morning and evening)
6.2g L-Arginine (3.1g morning and evening)
2.4g L-Citruline (1.2g morning and evening)
30-45 drops 99% DMSO mixed with AA etc. (15 in morning, afternoon and evening)

Additionally, I would like to mention that for the last year I have been eating 95% plant based (McDougall)and was walking 2-3 miles a day but has been cut back a bit due to the angina.


You are eating a "plant based diet" which may or may not be good for you. (Per other discussions).

The big gap in your protocol is vitamin E - the recommended dosage is 2000 iu of Unique-E in the a.m. (Fat soluble vitamin E is an antioxidant that protects cellular membranes (while the water soluble vitamin C helps protect inside the cell.)

The other gaps are vitamin A (25,000 iu recommended by Pauling) and magnesium.

I see you are on a statin, and I leave the discussion of the other drugs to johnwen.

If you have any input, ask for the plain metal stent. It is possible that your test will show improvement. Please let us know.
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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#67  Post by gizmo1955 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Sorry Owen, I copied my list from the very beginning of the post and failed to add the magnesium, A, super B and E that you recommended. I am now taking all of them although I am using "Spring Valley" not Unique E. I will look into changing that one.

I went for the nuclear stress test today, the funny thing was after the tests were run and the cardiologist came in to discuss the findings, he basically asked "and why were you here today"? Mind you he was looking at the results which made me believe they didn't find anything too dramatic. As he continued to review he asked if I had had any trouble on the treadmill, which I hadn't. This was a chemical stress test but the tech indicated that they could speed the process up a bit if I also walked on the treadmill.

Anyway, the Dr looked at the results for while and pointed out some of the images that had showed some grayed area at the bottom. When I asked what that was indicating he commented that it could be a blocked artery on the bottom of the heart, and he said "the best thing to do is go in and take a look", meaning let's head to the Cath lab. For me Cath lab = stents which I have been trying to stay away from. I asked what my options were, "Continue with the medicines, if things get worse then we can go in and take a look." Needless to say I was happy to accept that option. So next appointment is in 6 months which will be great for continuing with PT.

I also asked about ejection fraction EF and he said it was 65%. Not sure how that relates to the angina that I experience occasionally but considering the normal range is between 55 an 75%, 65 didn't sound too bad.

blade

Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#68  Post by blade » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:40 pm

ofonorow wrote:[
You are eating a "plant based diet" which may or may not be good for you. (Per other discussions).

The big gap in your protocol is vitamin E - the recommended dosage is 2000 iu of Unique-E in the a.m. (Fat soluble vitamin E is an antioxidant that protects cellular membranes (while the water soluble vitamin C helps protect inside the cell.)

I missed the other discussion why a plant based diet may not be good for him
can you sum up or link me to the discussion?

I mentioned vitamin E supplementation, consumerlabs recommends Carlson E-Gems
www.carlsonlabs.com/p-243-e-gems-elite-1000-iu.aspx
E-Gems Elite is an exclusive blend of the entire vitamin E family, including 8 forms of all-natural tocopherols and tocotrienols

I try to get sufficent Vit E from food(broccoli, spinach.almonds) but I'm also looking for a good pill for those "off" days....what kind do you suggest?

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#69  Post by ofonorow » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:40 am

gizmo1955 terrific news eh? Here is hoping you turn into one of the more astounding success stories... Keep us informed.

Blade, the problem with eating only "plant based" foods is that these foods do not contain CoQ10, which is required for energy/movement in animals. The heart and pancreas have the highest concentrations of CoQ10. We can make our own CoQ10 until we start to age. Compound the problem of not making as much as when we are young with the fact that many prescription drugs inhibit the bodies ability to make CoQ10 (the statin cholesterol drugs are the most "outstanding" in this regard, as was known almost from their inception.) And you have the recipe for disaster (e.g. vegan women health nuts who had to have liver and other organ transplants after being prescribed statins "for prevention of CVD.")

And in order to absorb CoQ10 and fat soluble vitamins, there must be bile in the digestive tract. So if one is avoiding oils (lipids/fats) they are less likely to be able to absorb these nutrients. To my mind this is indeed a recipe for disaster.
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#70  Post by gizmo1955 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:15 pm

Will do Owen, I've been paying attention to your and others comments on plant based diets and it has not fallen on deaf ears. Although I have been pulled in by the information provided by Dr Esselstyn and McDougall and I have to say that it was mainly because at the time I needed to believe there was something I could do to have a positive affect on my condition. That being said, after being on it for a year, I did experience some fairly significant weight loss but it was harder to quantify if it was helping with my CVD. Then when I started getting angina again I was looking for something else that may help when I came across this site.

Don't get me wrong, I totally respect what you and many others on this site have been passing on. And it is easy for me to get equally as passionate about PT as well, but for a person like me with no medical background, I was just as passionate about the plant based diet being the fix. I equate it to being like the diet roller coaster. You try one for a while and when it doesn't work you move on to another. But while your on a specific one you remain passionate, or maybe hopeful is a better term, that this time whatever process your doing will finally be the fix.

That being said, I have to believe that there was some validity in what 89826 was trying to say in that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. The Pauling therapy should be able to coexist with the plant based diet but it may require a few tweaks, specifically on the subject of no oil. I myself have cut back dramatically but there are some processed foods that have oil in them that I have eaten. Although I think that's where 89826 would say, that's why I didn't get the results out of the plant based diet that I was expecting.

Anyway, I'm glad to get a 6 month reprieve from direct intervention, it will give me an opportunity to see if one or both of these therapies will work.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#71  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:12 am

I too have read about many diets, but I find the Richard K Bernstein approach intriguing because he is one of the longest living Type 1 diabetics (He is now in his 80s). Bernstein discovered that bad things only happen to diabetics when their blood sugar isn't controlled. And that people only get fat eating carbohydrates - because the insulin that non diabetics can produce in the face of the carbohydrate load creates fat as its secondary function.

His entire diet recommendation is made with regard to the diets effect on blood sugar. It is almost impossible to control blood sugars, (especially in Type 1 diabetics using insulin to mimic the action of the pancreas), when eating concentrated carbohydrates that are rapidly digested into sugars. And the only way to understand how one's blood sugar reacts is to measure it. (He claims that the effect of a meal on blood sugar is over 5 hours after the meal.)

Since fats/lipids do not affect blood sugar, all fats are allowed, and cheeses and such with low carbs can be eaten to provide satiety.

The body requires a minimum amount of protein daily, and the only problem with eating more is that the body can turn some protein eaten into glucose (and if you don't eat enough protein, the body will turn muscle into glucose).

The real problem with the diet is that if you go into a grocery store, probably 90% of what you see are carbohydrates! It is simply hard to follow, but I have little doubt that following it will lead to weight loss and better health. Bernstein does not allow fruits, and only certain vegetables.
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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#72  Post by gizmo1955 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:59 pm

Just an update, I had another heart cath on 12-17-15, if you recall there was a nuclear stress test done in October that indicated that there may have been a small blockage in the bottom of the heart and the doctors suggestion was to do a heart cath then. I elected to continue with the medications I was on and added an extended release nitro. After several weeks it became obvious that the ER nitro was not enough to eliminate all the chest pain symptoms without adding another regular nitro pill. It also became obvious that the trend was heading downhill even though I was still on PT and vegan diet. (with a little oil) So I decided that I would take advantage of the fact that my insurance deductible had already been paid for the year (and several other factors)and decided to have the heart cath.

Fortunately, they did not find any glaring issues so the doctor is just increasing the dosage of the ER nitro. Unfortunately, I was unable to have a discussion with the doctor after the procedure but was able to talk with his PA who also arranged to get me a copy of the catheterization report. I was unable to discuss the specifics in the report with the PA as I really didn't get a chance to read it till I got home (200 miles away) Needless to say, I am not "up" on my heart related terminology so a great deal of the info in the report I don't understand. I will say though that the somewhat rosey outcome of the heart cath results gave way to some distress when trying to pick this report apart.

Thus the reason for the current post. I thought the group could help enlighten what the report is actually saying and make suggestions as to if PT is indeed helpful in my situation and if it should be modified in anyway in attempt to get the best results.

The report lists the Hemodynamic Data which I will leave out unless someone feels it would be useful.

Left ventriculography:
    Ejection fraction is 62%
    Anterior hypokinesis is noted.
Coronary angiography: A right dominant system is present

Left main coranary artery: Gives rise to the LAD, circumflex, and ramus intermedius arteries. Luminal irregularities are present.

Left anterior descending coronary artery: The left anterior descending artery is a large vessel reaching the apex of the LV, wrapping around the apex, giving rise to the first diagonal to the second diagonal and previously placed stents in the LAD are patent.

Left circumflex coronary artery: The circumflex artery is a medium sized vessel which gives rise to the first obtuse marginal, to the second obtuse marginal and distal circumflex is providing collaterals to the right coronary artery. The mid-circumflex artery showed a 40% narrowing. The ostial Obtuse Marginal 3 has 100% occlusion. Collateral to the third obtuse marginal are provided by the distal LAD

Ramus intermedius coronary artery: The ramus intermdedius artery is a medium sized vessel. Luminal irregularities are present in this vessel.

Right Coronary Artery: The mid-right coronary artery showed 100% occlusion. Occlusion occurs just past the marginal branch. Collaterals are being provided by the distal left anterior descending artery.

Grafts: Saphenous vein grafts t the right coronary artery and the left anterior descending artery are 100% occluded.

Conclusions:
    1. Three vessel coronary artery disease.
    2. Patent stents in the left anterior descending artery.
    3. Diastolic dysfunction and systemic hypertension.
    4. Normal overall ejection fraction with regional wall motion abnormalities.
    5. EF= 62%
    6. Occluded SVG to the LAD and the RCA

Recommendations:

    1. Maximize medical therapy
    2. Risk factor modification
    3. Prompt evaluation with recurrent chest pain

For me, the mention of collaterals is encouraging but the discussion of occlusions and narrowing is disturbing. Trying to put my head around the whole picture and I'm coming up with a Salvador Dali painting!

Just to add, after reading the many posts about getting off of statins, I weaned myself off of them in October of this year. Since that time my cholesterol number has increased to 300 from 180.5 in July 2015. Here is some additional data taken while in for the cath compared to July.

    July / Dec 17,
    Cholesterol 180 / 300
    Triglyc 206.1 / 204
    HDL 42.2 / 50
    LDL Calc 97.1 / 209.2
    VLDL Cal 40.8
    CARD Risk 6

From the posts I read cholesterol increase when dropping statins and on PT is normal although I'm not sure how long.

I have posted this cath data at Owens suggestion in hope that I and others may gain some insight and knowledge. I look forward to comments, suggestions and recommendations from the group.

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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#73  Post by ofonorow » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:17 am

I look forward to johnwen's comments as this is right up his alley.
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Re: Going to see the Cardiologist next month and.........

Post Number:#74  Post by gizmo1955 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:53 pm

Thanks Owen.....

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Need Heart Cath Report interpretation

Post Number:#75  Post by gizmo1955 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:55 pm

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12113&start=60

Just an update, I had another heart cath on 12-17-15, if you recall there was a nuclear stress test done in October that indicated that there may have been a small blockage in the bottom of the heart and the doctors suggestion was to do a heart cath then. I elected to continue with the medications I was on and added an extended release nitro. After several weeks it became obvious that the ER nitro was not enough to eliminate all the chest pain symptoms without adding another regular nitro pill. It also became obvious that the trend was heading downhill even though I was still on PT and vegan diet. (with a little oil) So I decided that I would take advantage of the fact that my insurance deductible had already been paid for the year (and several other factors)and decided to have the heart cath.

Fortunately, they did not find any glaring issues so the doctor is just increasing the dosage of the ER nitro. Unfortunately, I was unable to have a discussion with the doctor after the procedure but was able to talk with his PA who also arranged to get me a copy of the catheterization report. I was unable to discuss the specifics in the report with the PA as I really didn't get a chance to read it till I got home (200 miles away) Needless to say, I am not "up" on my heart related terminology so a great deal of the info in the report I don't understand. I will say though that the somewhat rosey outcome of the heart cath results gave way to some distress when trying to pick this report apart.

Thus the reason for the current post. I thought the group could help enlighten what the report is actually saying and make suggestions as to if PT is indeed helpful in my situation and if it should be modified in anyway in attempt to get the best results.

The report lists the Hemodynamic Data which I will leave out unless someone feels it would be useful.

Left ventriculography:
Ejection fraction is 62%
Anterior hypokinesis is noted.
Coronary angiography: A right dominant system is present

Left main coranary artery: Gives rise to the LAD, circumflex, and ramus intermedius arteries. Luminal irregularities are present.

Left anterior descending coronary artery: The left anterior descending artery is a large vessel reaching the apex of the LV, wrapping around the apex, giving rise to the first diagonal to the second diagonal and previously placed stents in the LAD are patent.

Left circumflex coronary artery: The circumflex artery is a medium sized vessel which gives rise to the first obtuse marginal, to the second obtuse marginal and distal circumflex is providing collaterals to the right coronary artery. The mid-circumflex artery showed a 40% narrowing. The ostial Obtuse Marginal 3 has 100% occlusion. Collateral to the third obtuse marginal are provided by the distal LAD

Ramus intermedius coronary artery: The ramus intermdedius artery is a medium sized vessel. Luminal irregularities are present in this vessel.

Right Coronary Artery: The mid-right coronary artery showed 100% occlusion. Occlusion occurs just past the marginal branch. Collaterals are being provided by the distal left anterior descending artery.

Grafts: Saphenous vein grafts t the right coronary artery and the left anterior descending artery are 100% occluded.

Conclusions:
1. Three vessel coronary artery disease.
2. Patent stents in the left anterior descending artery.
3. Diastolic dysfunction and systemic hypertension.
4. Normal overall ejection fraction with regional wall motion abnormalities.
5. EF= 62%
6. Occluded SVG to the LAD and the RCA

Recommendations:
1. Maximize medical therapy
2. Risk factor modification
3. Prompt evaluation with recurrent chest pain

For me, the mention of collaterals is encouraging but the discussion of occlusions and narrowing is disturbing. Trying to put my head around the whole picture and I'm coming up with a Salvador Dali painting!

Just to add, after reading the many posts about getting off of statins, I weaned myself off of them in October of this year. Since that time my cholesterol number has increased to 300 from 180.5 in July 2015. Here is some additional data taken while in for the cath compared to July.

July / Dec 17,
Cholesterol 180 / 300
Triglyc 206.1 / 204
HDL 42.2 / 50
LDL Calc 97.1 / 209.2
VLDL Cal 40.8
CARD Risk 6

From the posts I read cholesterol increase when dropping statins and on PT is normal although I'm not sure how long.

I have posted this cath data at Owens suggestion in hope that I and others may gain some insight and knowledge. I look forward to comments, suggestions and recommendations from the group.


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