CAD inevitable

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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blade

CAD inevitable

Post Number:#1  Post by blade » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:31 pm

Is heart disease inevitable?
From what I understand, the body doesnt make vitC, which is needed for making the collagen, which is needed by arteries to repair them when they get damaged by stress/wear/tear
but even with a low fat diet/high fruits veggies, a person won't get 10grams vitamin C
I thought that's the foundation of your requirment for vit C?
so without vit C suplementation, why do some people not get CAD?

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Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#2  Post by soflsun » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:46 pm

No other risk factors...good genetics.

I doubt you will see an obese smoker with high blood pressure in that category.

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Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:05 am

blade wrote:Is heart disease inevitable?
From what I understand, the body doesnt make vitC, which is needed for making the collagen, which is needed by arteries to repair them when they get damaged by stress/wear/tear
but even with a low fat diet/high fruits veggies, a person won't get 10grams vitamin C
I thought that's the foundation of your requirement for vit C?
so without vit C supplementation, why do some people not get CAD?


Great question.

Who doesn't get CAD? (When young American's were autopsied during the Korean War - many already had heart disease. The same was not true for the young Koreans.)

It turns out the intuit (eskimos) don't get CAD, which intrigued Pauling.

The answer seems to be that there are diets that allow the little vitamin C available to keep arteries strong and healthy. The so-called Paleo diet for example, or the Intuit's "blubber" (all fat diet).

Today's ultra-high carb, processed food diet, which seems to create Type 2 Diabetes everywhere it is made available, creates the very high requirement for vitamin C.

I think Bernstein is probably right. Keep your blood sugar at 83 mg/dl and your requirement for vitamin C would be vastly reduced. There is no way to do this on a high carb diet. It must be very low carb, high protein and fat. Good fats!
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

blade

Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#4  Post by blade » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:27 am

ofonorow wrote:
blade wrote:Is heart disease inevitable?

I think Bernstein is probably right. Keep your blood sugar at 83 mg/dl and your requirement for vitamin C would be vastly reduced. There is no way to do this on a high carb diet. It must be very low carb, high protein and fat. Good fats![/color][/b]



getting a fasting level of sugar of 83 mg/dl can be hard, even when I was at ~13%-155 bodyfat(before I learned about AA/cad) my fasting blood sugar was at 85mg/dl)
so get your BG that low, will cause other changes that will help your ED go away(increases Testosterone via losing fat, lowering estradiol by losing fat)
at that time, I was reading, John Robbin's Healthy at 100, http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-100-Scien ... 0345490118
led me to work to get my total cholestrol to below 150, when all I did was stop eating man-mad foods(85% of the time) and take niacin daily, that was it
I got to 151/hdl 34 ldl 90
I think I was in pretty good health and would avoid any CADissues(both granddads died from CAD)
but I think I read on this site about heart attacks happening with low cholestrol more than they do with high cholestrol?

and I dont know how much influence Cholestrol levels have on CAD issues? any? or is it other nutrients, like AA?7

Im curious about a high carb diet
I eat a lot of veggies(spinach/onion/broccoli), some fruit(rhubarb/grapefruit/melon/berries/etc)
that's a lot of carbs, but do you consider that a high carb diet?
I dont, because not carbs come in flavors, starchy and fibrous and Im getting a ton of fibrous carbs, corn is a starchy carbs, like bread.

your thoughts?7

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Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:52 am

You realize that all the adrenal (so-called steroid) hormones are made out of cholesterol? Normal cholesterol is apparently 180 mg/dl - and I wish my levels were again that high. But that is another topic.

What you eat contains proteins, fats or carbohydrates.

Fats are well fats, and digested to essential fatty acids. These are used for cellular repair and maintenance.

Proteins are digested to amino acids, and according to Bernstein, a percentage will be slowly converted to sugar. This was news to me.

Carbohdrates are sugars, or digested into sugars. Yes some are processed more slowly, leading to a slower rise in blood sugars (over time) I supposed making it easier for insulin to maintain blood sugars (if you are lucky enough to make insulin). But all those veggies are mostly carbs, meaning they are broken down to sugar.

Bernstein's diet allows no fruits.

Check out the glycemic index. Corn I believe is like pure sugar or eating a potato. Rapid rise in blood sugar. (In any event, I won't eat corn knowing they have genetically engineered the *bee killing* pesticide into corn!)

As far as the veggies, only way to know is to monitor your blood sugars.

So basically the Grundy (Diet Evolution) is the least strict diet - that has magnificent results
The Atkins Diet is more restrictive of carbs.
The Bernstein Diet is the most restrictive diet - and based on his 40 year daily and constant monitoring of his and his patient's blood sugars.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

blade

Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#6  Post by blade » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:29 am

ofonorow wrote:You realize that all the adrenal (so-called steroid) hormones are made out of cholesterol? Normal cholesterol is apparently 180 mg/dl - and I wish my levels were again that high. But that is another topic.

Why do you want cholesterol that high?
My levels vary with how lean(how much bodyfat) I carry.
30% bf, I am over total cholesterol 230, 40+ HDL, testosterone,)(MD told me to lose fat or get on RX to lower cholesterol)

steroids made from cholesterol? ?
total testosterone about 348ng/dl


BUT at around 10-15% bodyfat,
my labs were great

Total cholesterol of about 150 34 HDL, total testostrone 645ng/dl
(so less cholesterol. higher testosterone...)
fasting glucose, 85mg/dl
estradiol--21pg/ml
the increase in total testosterone was from the lowering of belly fat ie less aromatase.

diet was controlled of
veggies(broccoli, spinach, various others)
fruit(strawberry, rhubarb, pineapple, banana, various others)
eggs(whites)
some nuts(maybe)
Omega-3 pills(carlsons)(since you don't need any other fat)
not much anything else(cept 1 meal a week where I ate anything)
-this was before I started taking vitamin C ,so i did not have my LPA tested

but my point being, I lost fat and I was eating a great diet and yet my total cholesterol fell to 150, why is that bad?
now, I am not lean, which increases my risk for everything and I take 10-20mg vitC a day as well as a few grams of lysine/proline

ofonorow wrote:What you eat contains proteins, fats or carbohydrates.

Fats are well fats, and digested to essential fatty acids. ([b]unless you arent eating omega-3s
)These are used for cellular repair and maintenance.

Proteins are digested to amino acids, and according to Bernstein, a percentage will be slowly converted to sugar. This was news to me.

no, not really,
Yes, there is Gluconeogenesis but that's insignificant,http://www.namrata.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/g16.bmp
and won't cause a rise in blood glucose
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

I bet he meant ketone formation(which happens all the time, just higher amounts when you lower sugar intake as the brain runs on sugar and/or ketones,(also won't increase blood sugar)
but making sugar from protein? no. doesnt happen, or you are eating protein+carb, ie glycoproteins or he means "Tag-along carbs")




Carbohdrates are sugars, or digested into sugars. Yes some are processed more slowly, leading to a slower rise in blood sugars (over time) I supposed making it easier for insulin to maintain blood sugars (if you are lucky enough to make insulin). But all those veggies are mostly carbs, meaning they are broken down to sugar.

Bernstein's diet allows no fruits.

Check out the glycemic index. Corn I believe is like pure sugar or eating a potato. Rapid rise in blood sugar.

As far as the veggies, only way to know is to monitor your blood sugars.

So basically the Grundy (Diet Evolution) is the least strict diet - that has magnificent results
The Atkins Diet is more restrictive of carbs.
The Bernstein Diet is the most restrictive diet - and based on his 40 year daily and constant monitoring of his and his patient's blood sugars.[/b]

I dont like atkins diet
eating lots of meat, ie HCA's(Heterocyclic amines) can lead to cancer and other issues
I eat eggwhites for protein and a great amount of lysine/proline

I agree with much of Bernstein's diet.(there is logical reason to eat french fries or bread)
but it is very much a low carb diet, avoiding the starches in peas, carrots, beans,tomatoes, fruits, serves what purpose exactly?

fruit is mostly ok, http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-e ... _100_foods

low GI fruit is
peaches strawberries mangos
I don't know any high GI fruits
but again,
set a caloric number where you lose fat and you will lose fat
as this dude did,eating junk food and losing bodyfat
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... professor/


Any diet works, if you only eat a number of calories

a low carb diet will initially give more weight loss as carbs/glycogen hold water
so if you don't eat carbs and use your carbs, through living and exercise(carbs in muscles don't get used via living(unlike liver glycogen) away unless you use the muscle)
then you are also losing water and not getting it back
this is why initially on low carb diets you will lose a lot of weight

IE WEIGHT NOT FAT

as the weight is water weight
when you eat carbs again, you will gain back the weight
Bernstein's diet is just like a PSMF diet
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ra ... -handbook/

or a ketogenic diet
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet/


both books can be found free on the web if you want to look
Last edited by blade on Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

blade

Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#7  Post by blade » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:38 am

opps

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Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:16 am

Too long and rambling to follow - but Bernstein isn't wrong about proteins being converted to glucose. He has been monitoring his blood sugar since the late 1940s.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

blade

Re: CAD inevitable

Post Number:#9  Post by blade » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:29 am

ofonorow wrote:Too long and rambling to follow - but Bernstein isn't wrong about proteins being converted to glucose. He has been monitoring his blood sugar since the late 1940s.

well, try to follow I said you might be right
you didnt say, don't know, but to make glucose from non-carbs is done via the pathway gluconeogenesis
and that isnt able to make enough glucose to raise blood sugar,
since you will make more ketones, which are used by the brain

but low carb diet is the best way to deal with diabetes :D


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