High Blood Pressure & Elevated Heart rate

[ofonorow]

I suggested to ramp up the Vit C slowly. She was more enthisiastic and ramped up fast. The result was that she got a cold. It was a pretty bad one too. She stopped the Vit C and hasn't been neer Vit C since.

This is apparently a fairly common occurence, and Pauling even mentions in HTLLAFB that a "big name" professor of Nutrition reported having the same experience which caused him to "pooh pooh" vitamin C.

This shows that vitamin C is intimately involved with the onset of colds, and the explanation is the same as the rebound effect. By rapidly increasing the level in the body, enzyme systems are activated that use up the "excess" vitamin C. As ascorbate is converted to other substances, if the supply does not stay in step with the new demand, then the blood levels decline leading to the onset of the cold.

[Frank]

Oen,
Thank you for the explanation. I did see that response to sudden Vit C application somewhere in this forum but never saw the reason until now.
Thanks again.

[alive]

Interesting.
So, starting slow on vit. C is preferable.

Thanks.

[Frank]

Yes, I think that's right. Slowly does it.

Furthermore, now, I think you're right about Mukta Vati as well. I am susseptible to colds. Since I've been taking Vit C I only need to increase it when I catch a cold and it goes away within 24 hours.

This time, since I started Mukta Vati, I have not yet been able to shake the cold, even though, I've increased my Vit C from abot 6-8gm/day to 10 -12gm/day. This is very unusual for me. I searched some more on the net about Mukta Vati and it is recommended that it is started at a low dose and increased slowly as required. Not knowing this, I started with 4 tabs/day. This is when I got the cold.

After Owen's explanation about how Vit C works, I think that what might be happening is that intake of Mukta Vati somehow relaxes the arterial system in the whole body. This is unusual (for me) since I've been battling with high BP for the last 10 years. I think that this increases the stresss in the body (doing a new job) that takes up most of the available Vit C. What is left over is perhaps not enough to deal with the cold.

What I don't understand is that now, taking 10-12gm/day Vit C I get gassy on some days towards the evening, which means that I am close to my limit. If my theory is correct why can I not take more Vit C?

Maybe Owen has some idea.

PS. Owen, sorry for incorrectly spelling your name in my last post.

[alive]

After Owen's explanation about how Vit C works, I think that what might be happening is that intake of Mukta Vati somehow relaxes the arterial system in the whole body. This is unusual (for me) since I've been battling with high BP for the last 10 years. I think that this increases the stresss in the body (doing a new job) that takes up most of the available Vit C. What is left over is perhaps not enough to deal with the cold.

If by, relaxing the arteries, you mean it expands the arteries, I don't think it does that.
As far as I've read, when this happens, the heart rate will increase to comptensate for the larger area it now has to cover.

My heart rate has dropped significally. So, I don't think MV works that way.

Though I might be wrong, of course.
Just my layman's theory.

[ofonorow]

What I don't understand is that now, taking 10-12gm/day Vit C I get gassy on some days towards the evening, which means that I am close to my limit. If my theory is correct why can I not take more Vit C?

Well, our digestive intake of vitamin C is apparently not a perfect replacement for endogenous liver production, such as that which takes place 24/7 in most other mammals. You might be able to control the gas by taking smaller dosages more frequently, but if you have reached your daily bowel tolerance, I'm not sure why you would require more, yet not be able to ingest it. THere are several assumptions at work, that the MV doesn't interfere in some way, maybe with absorption, or that gas means you are close to daily tolerance, etc. Remember,there is always Lypo-C - which is a way to avoid the gas/diarrhea altogether.

[Frank]

Alive, as I understand it, there are 2 BP readings that are taken. The first is the systolic (higher reading), which is the pressure against the artetial wall at the peak of the heart's stroke. The second is the diastolic (lower reading), which is the pressure against the arterial wallduring the heart resting period. Therefore, the heart rate does not change these thse readings directly. For example, if you exercise, your heart rate increases, the systolic increases, but the diastolic stays the same. The systolic increases because of the exercise, not because of the rate. This is to increase efficiency in pumping the blood - increasing blood circulation with the heart stroke and the rate.

I know there has been recent talk about paying more attention to the systolic reading rather than the diastolic for making the decision about having high BP. But by my personal experience, it is the diastolic that causes me trouble. My head starts to feel "full" at a diastolic of just over 80, a slight headache at about 85 and a full headache by 90. This has happened to me numerous times so I am quite convinced about the corelation. My new GP doesn't believe me. He tells me to just take an aspirin or something like it for a headache. I don't do that, I do 1/2 hour brisk walk, my BP drops and my headache goes away. My systolic at rest is always about 35 above the diastolic and during exercise this increases but causes no trouble for me. Therefore, I tend to look at the diastolic.

As far as I know there are only a couple of ways to reduce the BP.
1) Reduce the volume of blood in the pipe system (this is how diuretics work)
2) Increase the size of the pipe system (this is how other medications work by relaxing the muscles around the arteries allowing the the diameter of the blood vessels to increase).

I think that my heart rate has also decreased (now at about 60), but this reduction is only marginal. From memory I think my rate was about 62-63 last time I checked it. I am not even sure if this amount of reduction is not natural variability.

Owen, the reason I would like to take more Vit C is because I am having trouble getting rid of this virus cold I have. I take the MV 1 hour before food and the Vit C, so I'm not sure how it would prevent absorption. Mayby this cold I have is much worse than the ones I had before. It is improving, but very slowly. I did think about ordering some Lypo-C, but by the time I receive it my cold will be gone. It takes about an extra week to get things here in Australia from the US.

Today is six days since I halved my diuretic and 3 days since I cut out the diuretic altogether. I put on 2.5 - 3Kg weight due to the extra fluid in my system. I am glad to be able to say that my BP is still holding at about 115/81. MV is definitely doing something so far.

[alive]

As far as I know there are only a couple of ways to reduce the BP.
1) Reduce the volume of blood in the pipe system (this is how diuretics work)
2) Increase the size of the pipe system (this is how other medications work by relaxing the muscles around the arteries allowing the the diameter of the blood vessels to increase).

Thanks for clearing this up.

I more or less based my theory on something I read about the effects of THC on blood pressure.
They kept repeating over and over the dangers of THC due to the elevated heart rate that followed the expansion of the arteries, which is an effect of THC. (and not stoners having a bad trip :p)

I know that THC (marijuana) elevates heart rate. This part I know to be true.
The studies I read said this was due to expanding arteries, which also is the reason for the red eyes thing. And for the same reason, blood pressure drops.
So, I assumed, that all medication that expands the arteries would elevate heart rate.

MV definitely lowered mine. By quite a large margin.

On a side note, heart rate goes up when I take large dosages of vitamin C. I don't know whay that is.
I do feel like an 'energy overload' in my whole body an hour or so after having taken a large dosage of C. Its not a pleasant energy overload, I must say.
My mother claims she never was able to take large dosages of vit. C all her life because her heart starts racing when she does.

Maybe I have something genetic.

[Frank]

I don't know anything about marijuana or it's effects.

heart rate goes up when I take large dosages of vitamin C.

When you say large dose, do you mean at once or over the whole day. The maximum singe dose I take is 2gm. If I take a much larger single dose I get diarrhea.

[alive]

[Frank]

Something is not right. Your heart rate should not rise by a noticable degree.
With your intake, are you close to bowel tolerance? Do you have the standard response - gas and/or diarreah before you cut the Vit C down?

[alive]

Something is not right. Your heart rate should not rise by a noticable degree.
With your intake, are you close to bowel tolerance? Do you have the standard response - gas and/or diarreah before you cut the Vit C down?

To be honest, I do not know what my bowel tolerance is. I haven't had problems with the big "D" yet in connection to vit. C.
Gassy.... I'm not sure. I'm pretty gassy as it is. I eat a lot of dried apricots, which give gas. But it never gets unpleasant - neither for me or others.

Like I said, my mother has this condition, too. Worse than me.

[Frank]

heart rate goes up when I take large dosages of vitamin C.

Your large dose, as you say is beteen 6 - 12gms/day distributed to cause this increased heart rate.
I don't know how this happens directly.

Maybe Owen can shed some light on it.

The reason I asked about your response to the Vit C is because if your digestion is faulty, that is, your digestion does not react normally to Vit C, then maybe, your digestion system thinks that it is being poisoned. I think that may cause an increase in heart rate. If you are well, 6 -12gms/day sound like a little high. Without my cold, infection and feeling really well, I can't take more than about 4gms/day without producing gas. But I guess everyone is different. Also, as Owen mentioned before, most other mamels produce their own Vit C, as required. In our case, if we made our own, that would be at lease 12gms/day during infection etc. Taking Lypo-C would either prove or disprove this theory.

[alive]

heart rate goes up when I take large dosages of vitamin C.

Your large dose, as you say is beteen 6 - 12gms/day distributed to cause this increased heart rate.
I don't know how this happens directly.

Maybe Owen can shed some light on it.

The reason I asked about your response to the Vit C is because if your digestion is faulty, that is, your digestion does not react normally to Vit C, then maybe, your digestion system thinks that it is being poisoned. I think that may cause an increase in heart rate. If you are well, 6 -12gms/day sound like a little high. Without my cold, infection and feeling really well, I can't take more than about 4gms/day without producing gas. But I guess everyone is different. Also, as Owen mentioned before, most other mamels produce their own Vit C, as required. In our case, if we made our own, that would be at lease 12gms/day during infection etc. Taking Lypo-C would either prove or disprove this theory.

I tried with both pure ascorbic acid and also 'buffered' C, which is vitamin C, calcium, magnesium, potassium and zinc. This is put in a glass of water and let to sizzle a minute or so. Now its not as sour as pure ascorbic acid, which made my stomach pretty sour if I did't take it with some food.

The heart thing happens on either, btw.

[Frank]

The problem with these methods of taking Vit C is that the Vit C is subjected to the digestive system.

Lypo-C works differently, I believe. Lypo-C is made by encapsulating molecules of Vit C with material that insulates the Vit C from the digestive system. This material protects the Vit C from the gastric juices and the digestive system from the Vit C until the Vit C enters the blood stream.

In this way virtually 100% of the Vit C enters the blood stream and therefore more efficient. I read somewhere that only 50% of ascorbic acid ingested is transferred to the blood. So to get the equiv of your 12gms/day Vit C, you would only need 6gms or Lypo-C without the digestive problems. The down side - cost.