Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Answers to questions about vitamin C and its relation to all forms of cardiovascular disease

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Frank
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Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#1  Post by Frank » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:28 pm

I am puzzled.
I have ubderstood and therefore believe that the Pauling regimen for reduction of heart desease is correct. However, if it is correct that it is the absence of Vit C and not enough lysine and proline that is the cause of heart desease, then how do others advocate the Pritican diet:
http://www.pritikin.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=66
to also effective in reducing heart desease.

Although, the Budwig diet concentrates on effective cancer treatment, it is stated that it also treats heart desease:
http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html
"she also treated other chronic diseases such as Arthritis, Heart Infarction, Irregular Heart Beat, .............. Arteriosclerosis and other chronic diseases."


Although neither of these alternatives are explained as to how they work for heart desease, in technical terms, there is statistical evidence that they do.

Neither of these alternatives have large amounts of Vit C, in fact on the Budwig diet Vit C suplementation is discouraged. They both have low amounts of lysine and proline.

Does anyone have expalanations for these?

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:28 am

Well, I know about the Budwig, but I am no expert. I have been on the Pritikin diet myself many years ago, circa 1985. At that time I believed that a very low fat diet would protect me from heart disease. I lost a ton of weight on the super-low fat diet. However, Pritikin parroted the medical position that you "pissed excess vitamins" down the toilet, and I had just started reading Pauling at the time. So I did not take that part of his advice. I assume N. Pritikin took his own advice, and that is why he died so young. I believe that for some people, the Pritikin diet can be healthful - so long as you ignore the advice not to supplement, and follow Pauling's supplement regimen.

But to answer the question more generally, how can this or that work if Pauling/Rath are right. It has to do with the value of the theory. The theory can help explain why certain programs seem to work, or work in most people, etc. For example, under the theory it is the lack of vitamin C which leads to a weakenning of the arterial wall. Well, as discussed here, a high-fat or protein diet (e.g. Paleolithic) can substantially reduce the amount of vitamin C necessary to penetrate cell membranes, either because it is not competing with sugar in the blood for entry, or because the cell membranes are healthier (insulin transports are not clogged as in TYpe 2 diabetes) etc. Studies show Vitamin D reduces CVD, probably by reducing infections, vitamin D spares vitamin C in the body, etc.

What I would be interested in most is what in these diets/programs do you think violates the basic Pauling/Rath unified theory?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

Frank
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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#3  Post by Frank » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:21 pm

If by violating the unified theory, you mean "the lack of vitamin C which leads to a weakenning of the arterial wall" I think is not violed by these diets.

From my example, the Pritican diet on 1200Cal/day would produce about 800mg Vit C and about 1700mg lysine. To reverse artery clogging Pauling suggested a total of up to 7000-8000mg Vit C and 6000mg lysine + about 4000mg in the food. 800 + 1700mg in the Pritican diet seems a little short to work effectively. However Rath, I believe, showed success with low dosages over longer periods of time. I don't believe that supplementation on the Pritican is part of the program. By the way, Nathan Pritican died of suicide and he had cancer (leukemia) and depression ( a siide effect of low fat). But his arteries were apparantly clear after being told years before that he would die from heart desease (clogged arteries).

I don't know much about the Budwig or 80/10/10 diets myself. I only just read about these in this forum from Marjorie a couple of weeks ago. These diets are also close to vegetarian diets, high in vegetables and fruit, therefore, I expect the Vit C and lysine to be similar to the Protican diet.

Is it possible that Vit C absorption is much higher and more effective from food than from supplementation?

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#4  Post by Cis4me » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:37 pm

After reading Hickey and Roberts' book "Ascorbate" I've always thought the possible greater effectiveness from vitamin c from food was mostly due to the fact that most of us usually eat multiple times a day that combined with the lower absorbition rate when mixed with food, especially protein would give you a more consistant blood level.

As is the case with vitamin c supplements, taking 500mg 4x a day and 2000mg once a day are very, very different things.

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#5  Post by Dolev » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:15 pm

ANY of the many radical diets proposed may be good therapeutically for a period of time. However, probably ALL of them will cause nutritional deficiencies and problems as long-term diets.
Dolev

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#6  Post by Frank » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:34 pm

Thank you for yur replies.
Some time ago I printed a test result conducted by Rath showing that Vit C, lysine and proline reduce and even remove arterial blockage. I missplaced this article which contained the amount of Vit C, lysine and proline used in the test. I looked at Rath's currect website, but unfortunately he no longer has the full test results, just a summary. The amount of supplements used is no longer shown:
http://www.drrathresearch.org/clinical_studies/condition_atherosclerosis.html

Does anyone know the amount of Vit C, lysine and proline Rath used in his test?
Thanks

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#7  Post by Frank » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:16 pm

Found the article:
http://www.rath-eduserv.com/english/health/uk_studies15.html

The amounts used:
Vit C= 2700mg
Lysine= 450mg
Proline= 450mg

amongst a lot of other supplements.
The test took about 18 months and and successfully reversed the progressof atheroscleroses and in some cases eliminated it.

This indicates that increased dosage has the effect of speeding up the progress of repair since Pauling states that improvement can be noticed within 2 weeks on his recommended dosage.

Since the diets mentined in previous posts in this thread have a much higher Vit C content (800mg) than the general diet (60mg), in time, maybe this is all that is required (if you're willing to wait for a few years)?

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Re: Pritican and Budwig diets for reduction of heart desease

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:55 am

Not sure if this is a question, but since you require 1 g (1000 mg) of lysine to exist daily, offering 450 mg is practically a negligible amount, less than one should get in their food, and roughly an order of magnitude less (10 times less) than Pauling recommended.

The doses may not be identical for everyone (I've seen magic worked with 2500 mg of each, vitamin C and lyisne) but dosage is the critical factor in how well the therapy works.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


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