Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Answers to questions about vitamin C and its relation to all forms of cardiovascular disease

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ofonorow
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Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:04 am

I just happen to see your product. I may be at risk for heart disease. I don't know how to start your program. What do I need to possibly cure myself from this disease. I mean I am only 37 years old. I feel my time is running out if I don't do any thing about it. So could you help me... W



Well, it is true that during the Korean war, heart disease was found amoung 20-year old Americans during autopsies, so you may be right.

The key, according to Linus Pauling is vitamin C - most species make it in their livers, humans don't. Our Cardio-C product also includes Pauling's invention - lysine - which can (in theory) reverse the disease caused by lack of vitamin C. So maybe 2 jars to start for 3-6 months (2 servings per day), followed by a maintenance of 1 jar/month - 1 serving per day should be sufficient at your age.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as you smoke, use drugs, or are diabetic or eat a high sugar/junk food diet, or you have a lot of dental work, especially root canals, or have genetically high levels of certain forms of cholesterol. In this case, one of the strong products, probably a Tower Labs HEART TECHNOLOGY product, would be better.

The very first thing to do is go to Sam's Club or a drug store, purchase 500 mg ascorbic acid tablets (the brand with the fewest fillers, or select Nature's Made) and begin a habit of taking 1 tablet every 4 waking hours. If/when you get the drink mix, substitute the drink for the 1 or 2 times during the day.

Monitor (here) vitamincfoundation.org/forum -> heart disease for our discussions.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#2  Post by BaronZemo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:18 pm

In this case, one of the strong products, probably a Tower Labs HEART TECHNOLOGY product, would be better.


what's the difference between cardio c and Tower Labs HEART TECHNOLOGY?

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Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:08 am

BaronZemo wrote:
In this case, one of the strong products, probably a Tower Labs HEART TECHNOLOGY product, would be better.


what's the difference between cardio c and Tower Labs HEART TECHNOLOGY?



Primarily dosage - 2500 mg vits/lysine in Cardio-C per serving versus 3000 mg vitamin C/lysine per serving in Heart Technology. Also, HT offers other drinkable nutrients without fillers, including a water miscible vitamin E, vitamin A, B6 and few other ingredients. I think part of the magic has to do with vitamin A, although I cannot prove it at this time, because people report more positive results with HT on lowering Lp(a) than when they take vitamin C, lysine and proline separately.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

Danaus

Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#4  Post by Danaus » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:22 pm

Hey Owen,
Since you're the ascorbate wizard... Why do these products use the L-ascorbic acid, and not Sodium Ascorbate? Is it for consumer fear of Sodium? The Ascorbate is ph neutral(7.4) and you can take more of it. Seems a little harder to find, but is on Amazon.com.

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Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:31 am

Danaus wrote:Hey Owen,
Since you're the ascorbate wizard... Why do these products use the L-ascorbic acid, and not Sodium Ascorbate? Is it for consumer fear of Sodium? The Ascorbate is ph neutral(7.4) and you can take more of it. Seems a little harder to find, but is on Amazon.com.


Good question. Hopefully all the "reasons" are still posted all over this forum, but to summarize, ascorbic acid orally is at least twice as effective as sodium ascorbate orally - according to the late world-class vitamin C expert Robert Cathcart, MD. Twice as effective taming free radicals. You can hear his reasoning by listening to the videos of a lecture he gave vitamincfoundation.org/videos

Now sodium ascorbate is a fine form of vitamin C, and many people swear by it and feel that it is easier to take. For years I used a Bronson product that was 10% sodium ascorbate myself. Pauling turned at least part of his 18,000 mg of ascorbic acid into sodium ascorbate by adding sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to his drink. Note, you can not go the other way, to my knowledge, and turn sodium ascorbate into ascorbic acid. You should only take vitamin C intravenously as sodium ascorbate, and it looks like vitamin C is mostly ascorbic acid in the blood, but sodium ascorbate in the lymph, etc.

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

Danaus

Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#6  Post by Danaus » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:52 pm

Can you elaborate on the twice as effective part? Is this milligram per milligram, or overall?

I mean if you compare 1000mg of Ascorbic Acid to 6000mg of Ascorbate, is the Ascorbate going to be more effective simply by being in much higher dosage?

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Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:02 am

We are talking about equivalent dosages, and reviewing the video, I believe he says that ascorbic acid is FIVE times as effective, molecule for molecule, as sodium ascorbate. (I may have this wrong, it may be that AA is twice as effective as SA, but IV is 5 times as effective as oral, making an IV sodium ascorbate about twice as effective as oral ascorbic acid of the same dose.)

In any case, here is a private communication from Dr. Robert Cathcart, MD, a physician with vast experience with high dose vitamin C protocols, on his opinion that mineral ascorbates are generally not as effective therapeutically as ascorbic acid:


"...it was not entirely clear that the dramatic effects are always with ascorbic acid orally and sodium ascorbate intravenously. I have not been able to achieve the ascorbate effect with mineral ascorbates orally. Mineral ascorbates are fine forms of vitamin C but when you are really sick, the mitochondria are failing in their refueling of the free radical scavengers with electrons. The ascorbic acid carries 2 extra electrons per molecule where the mineral ascorbates seem to carry only one (plus per molecule the mineral ascorbates are heavier due to the mineral weighing more than the hydrogen the mineral replaces). So the mineral ascorbates are not potent enough to accomplish the ascorbate effect. There may be other reasons that we do not appreciate additionally." Robert Cathcart, III, MD


This is subject to debate, (did he lump sodium ascorbate in with mineral ascorbates. I think so) and I would enjoy such a debate. However, Cathcart's opinion is based on extensive clinical experience with thousands upon thousands of patients.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: Suspected Heart Disease at Age 37

Post Number:#8  Post by godsilove » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:01 pm

Danaus wrote:Can you elaborate on the twice as effective part? Is this milligram per milligram, or overall?

I mean if you compare 1000mg of Ascorbic Acid to 6000mg of Ascorbate, is the Ascorbate going to be more effective simply by being in much higher dosage?


Well, gram for gram, you're getting more of the active ascorbate molecule from ascorbic acid than you are from an ascorbate salt like sodium ascorbate. So even if the therapeutic effects are the same, you would have to take a higher dose of sodium ascorbate for it to have the same effect.


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