Lysine = Collagen, and most body protein is collagen?

[ofonorow]

Well there may not be one general right answer, because we are all biologically different (varied) from the norm. You look for general guidelines, and then consider how you look and feel - your health. (I think I can identify vegetarians based on their generally pale skin tone, but maybe they coincidentally avoid the sun?)

Re: vegetarians and amino acids. In addition to a lack of certain essential amino acids (which if true, over time, would cause a deficiency disease, or cause the body to steal from its proteins stores, e.g. muscles.) I believe that vegetarians may risk deficiencies in other crucial nutrients which are plentiful in meats, such as carnitine and CoQ10. This can become important if on a cholesterol-lowering drug, as many health-seeking vegetarians have required a liver transplant, presumably because of the drug-induced CoQ10 deficiency that the diet did not make up for.

[pamojja]

(I think I can identify vegetarians based on their generally pale skin tone, but maybe they coincidentally avoid the sun?)

(So you wouldn't recognize me as a vegetarian)

Anyone aware of studies in support of the claim: that a vegetarian wouldn't get enough of certain essiential amino-acids?

I believe that vegetarians may risk deficiencies in other crucial nutrients which are plentiful in meats, such as carnitine and CoQ10.

Would be interresting to hear on what your believe is based: personal or second hand experience, inference, scientific studies, ...?

From my experience being a vegetarian for most of my life - for example with strenuous manual work to have the energy needed - already early on I had to use whole grains instead of white flour/rice products.

As it appears to me, the real dangerous issue with vegetarian vs. carnivorian diet seems to be with very low Vitamin B12 intake. In every other respect carnivorians are just as much at risk of deficiencies.

For example CoQ10 is found in meat upto 2.6 mg, but some seeds contain 2 mg too, and vegies upto 1 mg per 3 ounces of food.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/o ... index.html

However, if one ate as much meat as veggies today, there could be other health problems (due to widespread use of medication for allowing large scale industrial meat production).

A deficiency, for example in carnitine, could be caused by a number of reasons (Burgerstein's Handbook of Nutrition):
* much fatty food
* physiological stress: intensive body excercise, sickness and infections, trauma
* deficiency of the building blocks for the carnitine synthesis: Lysin, Methionin, Vitamin C, B6 and Niacin
* vegetarianism

I believe that vegetarians ...
This can become important if on a cholesterol-lowering drug, as many health-seeking vegetarians have required a liver transplant, presumably because of the drug-induced CoQ10 deficiency that the diet did not make up for.

You seem to associate vegetarianism and cholesterol-lowering drugs to the effect of a depletion of CoQ10 requiring liver transplants?

On what is the believe that 'many health-seeking vegetarians have required a liver transplant ..' - any more than carnivorians - is based?

Kind regards..

[ofonorow]

On what is the believe that 'many health-seeking vegetarians have required a liver transplant ..' - any more than carnivorians - is based?

Conversations with multiple lawyers representing vegetarians (usually female) who lost their livers after being put on a statin drug, after finding our anti-statin web pages.

[Ralph Lotz]

STATIN DRUG ALERT
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/statinalert/

The Oregon State information on COQ10 contains too much academic mainstream obfuscation. Like the NIH disinformation regarding nutrients, people are supposed to believe either that eating a "good diet" provides adequate nutrition or that "more research is needed." All this does is keep people sick/deficient and the researchers working.

Ely believes that many people need at least .5 grams per day. To obtain this amount from food is impossible because of the volume required to be eaten.

As I recall from our work on COQ10 a few years ago, the endogenous production requires something like 17 steps beginning with the amino acid tyrosine and at least eight vitamins and several trace elements in adequate amounts.

Here are three good links for COQ10:
INTRODUCTION TO COENZYME Q10
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/coenzq10.html

A Brief Update on Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10)
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM5.html

Urgent Update on Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10)
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/turnover.html

[pamojja]

On what is the believe that 'many health-seeking vegetarians have required a liver transplant ..' - any more than carnivorians - is based?

Conversations with multiple lawyers representing vegetarians (usually female) who lost their livers after being put on a statin drug, after finding our anti-statin web pages.

Thanks for giving details, Owen. I was surprised about alleged increased liver failure with vegetarians. Since my liver - as a live long vegetarian (not vegan though) - completely recovered from malaria (of which I had 7 fits (falsiparum and vivax) during a timespan of 5 years, 10 years ago.

This complex, 17 step process, requiring at least seven vitamins (vitamin B2 - riboflavin, vitamin B3 - niacinamide, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin C, and pantothenic acid) and several trace elements, is, by its nature, highly vulnerable.

The requirement of B12 makes the link of CoQ10 deficiency in vegetarians, especially on statins, very plausible to me.

Possibly the most important details not reported previously on this web site are those related to ubiquinone body pool and turnover rate that mandate human supplementation. Adult human body pool has been found to be approximately 2 grams [3,4] and requires replacement of about 0.5 grams/day based on its average turnover rate of about 4 days in various tissues[5]. This must be supplied either by endogenous synthesis or from exogenous sources. Synthesis decreases progressively in humans above age 21. Furthermore, the average ubiquinone content of the western diet is less than 5 mg/day [6]. Thus, ubiquinone supplementation appears to be the only way for older people, and certainly the ill, to obtain the major proportion of the 0.5 gram/day need. Failure to supplement by the aged, ill or stressed, can have tragic consequences in the form of irreversible damage in the brain, other organs and mitochondria everywhere [7,8].

thanks for the links, Ralph.