Recent blood tests

[ofonorow]

Thinking..........

I don't quite understand something:

If Pauling says that by taking High dose VC and suplementing that with Proline and Lysine, the high cholesterol should not be the issue. The high dose VC therapy should counteract the inflamation; The cholesterol should lose it's sticky property and not adher to the arterial wall. The root canaled teeth issue would be moot.......I'm confused.

I do not think Pauling's position was that "high cholesterol would not be the issue" (in the sense that it may still rise) but you might infer that elevated cholesterol would not be as dangerous as long as you are taking Lp(a) binding inhibitors. So yes, if I were in your position, I would be taking C to bowel tolerance, and lysine (and probably proline, but lets think about it below.)

Dr. Levy's opinion is based on his clinical experience with patients who did not reverse their symptoms until their root canals/amalgams were removed, but we do not know the dosages of ascorbate these patients were taking. It is possible they were taking much lower vitamin C dosages than we (Pauling) advise. I'll ask Dr. Levy. Your cholesterol may stay elevated until the dental toxins are removed, but the issue is what then happens to your cardiovascular system? (And it seems logical that the elevated cholesterol is acting in your behalf - helping your body eliminate the toxins.)

The central issue is the strength and stability of the arterial wall. Your objective is to keep your arteries strong - despite the probability that vitamin C in your blood stream may be dissipated before it can be utilized for the production of collagen (in the arterial wall.) Levy in his book discusses the many apparent alternative means the body seems to use to stabilize the arterial wall (and ground substance), and the associated "thickening" that results from this process. This is one of the reasons he recommends Chrondroitin, etc.

As Pauling once said regarding all this, "What do we know?" It is logical that taking more vitamin C is prudent, whether the ascorbate is being used to help you eliminate toxins, or is being utilized to produce collagen.

If there are other means (e.g. IP6) of detoxifying root canals, i.e., that can help with the probable toxic load, then that would, in theory, free up more ascorbate for the role of collagen production. We do know that a mere 10 mg of vitamin C is enough to prevent frank scurvy. So you are correct, there seems to be a disconnect. Given how lipsonal C is thought to operate, low-energy entry into the cells, it is conceivable that this form would be best and at least one Lypo-C packet should be included in your regimen.

The issue of Lp(a) binding inhibitors is not so clear cut. Lysine seems to have two faces. There are lysine strands in the collagen matrix, so lysine is at least a component of collagen/elastin, but lysine in the blood can also inactivate the sticky Lp(a) molecules. In theory, the elevated Lp(a) is providing a service if your arteries are growing weaker, missing collagen. If we knew that your Lp(a) was quite elevated, then more lysine/proline (in theory) would be helpful to avoid "overshooting" the patch. Your elevated blood pressure argues for this (arterial narrowing).

I think it boils down to the danger from the toxins is a secondary effect of reducing collagen production by reducing available vitamin C. Given that Lp(a) apparently rises when C is unavailable, forgetting the complication of the toxic load, then your Lp(a) reading may be the best indicator and may suggest the best future course of action. If your Lp(a) were low, for example, it would say to me that your current regimen is working.

[scottbushey]

If I understand Dr. levy correctly, his proposal is the antithesis of Pauling in that he says we need to remove the source of toxins or our supplementation is fruitless (no pun intended). In light of Bowel Tolerance theory, what does Dr. levy say in regards to hepatitis and raging cancers-is supplementing to bowel tolerance fruitless?

[godsilove]

If your Lp(a) were low, for example, it would say to me that your current regimen is working. [/color]

Or that Lp(a) was low to begin with and the regimen had a minimal effect.

[ofonorow]

Clarification from Dr. Levy,

Hello Owen,

This individual at least has the "advantage" of seeing an interval change in cholesterol levels, indicating a probable rise in endogenous toxicity over the time period between the two cholesterol measurements. The vast majority of people who have root canals get no warning of any kind before the other shoe drops. Because of this relationship between cholesterol and toxin levels, if any supplemental interventions are effective in neutralizing a substantial amount of the root canal toxicity, then cholesterol levels should once again show a drop. Certainly, it can be expected that if he stopped his Pauling therapy and all other good supplementation, the cholesterol would likely go higher still. So, it definitely would not be a good idea to stop all supplementation. I probably overminimized the value of what he is doing now in order to make a point of how toxic the root canals are.

Having said all of this, I have found that the liposome encapsulated glutathione to be especially effective in neutralizing toxicity based on a number of clinical observations. I would hypothesize that 3 to 4 packets of the LivOn glutathione product, along with a couple of the LivOn C packets, could go a long way toward neutralizing a substantial amount of this toxicity. If this person adds this to his regimen, and the cholesteral drops below 230 or so, then I believe it can be reasonably assumed that much of the prooxidant toxicity of the root canals has been negated.

I don't believe the LivOn C alone would do the job; I know of one case where this inability was clearly demonstrated. However, the combination of the LivOn C and glutathione has proven itself to me to be uniquely potent in its anti-toxic effects.

Finally, if these LivOn products are added to this person's regimen and cholesterol levels do drop dramatically, I would take this outcome as a reason only to defer on getting the mouth cleaned up, not to avoid it completely.

Best regards,

Dr. Levy

[jknosplr]

[scottbushey]

Why are these toxicities not measurable? Bacterium is measured typically in a basic lab test. Again, I don't see how this is reconciled in light of Cathcarts theory:

TABLE I - USUAL BOWEL TOLERANCE DOSES

GRAMS ASCORBIC ACID NUMBER OF DOSES
CONDITION PER 24 HOURS PER 24 HOURS
normal 4 - 15 4 - 6
mild cold 30 - 60 6 - 10
severe cold 60 - 100+ 8 - 15
influenza 100 - 150 8 - 20
ECHO, coxsackievirus 100 - 150 8 - 20
mononucleosis 150 - 200+ 12 - 25
viral pneumonia 100 - 200+ 12 - 25
hay fever, asthma 15 - 50 4 - 8
environmental and
food allergy 0.5 - 50 4 - 8
burn, injury, surgery 25 - 150+ 6 - 20
anxiety, exercise and
other mild stresses 15 - 25 4 - 6
cancer 15 - 100 4 - 15
ankylosing spondylitis 15 - 100 4 - 15
Reiter's syndrome 15 - 60 4 - 10
acute anterior uveitis 30 - 100 4 - 15
rheumatoid arthritis 15 - 100 4 - 15
bacterial infections 30 - 200+ 10 - 25
infectious hepatitis 30 - 100 6 - 15
candidiasis 15 - 200+ 6 - 25

How is it that the vitamin C reconciles a Candida infection yet leaves the toxic levels from a root canal? additionally, how does the VC differentiate between the toxicities?

~Something doesn't make sense........

[godsilove]

I find Levy's claim that root canals are the "single most important cause of both cancer and heart disease" to be highly implausible. Where is the evidence to back this up? I would be genuinely surprised if there is any hard evidence that supports Levy's claim, especially in terms of the extent to which he claims restorative dental procedures affect systemic health. If he's going to recommend a costly extraction process that involves risks (e.g. dry sockets and infections), I hope he's going by more than just his personal clinical experience, which is subject to confirmation bias and recall bias.

[scottbushey]

I find Levy's claim that root canals are the "single most important cause of both cancer and heart disease" to be highly implausible. Where is the evidence to back this up? I would be genuinely surprised if there is any hard evidence that supports Levy's claim, especially in terms of the extent to which he claims restorative dental procedures affect systemic health. If he's going to recommend a costly extraction process that involves risks (e.g. dry sockets and infections), I hope he's going by more than just his personal clinical experience, which is subject to confirmation bias and recall bias.

I agree; I believe it is a stretch; and in light of what I have already posted, a contradiction to the rationale espoused by Pauling and Cathcart.

[ofonorow]

I am sure Dr. Levy will respond, but Dr. Levy has co-authored at least two books (Uninformed Consent I have read, the other one he mentions above, I plan to read

The toxicity of root canals is covered extensively in the book that Dr. Kulacz and I wrote, "The Roots of Disease." Getting teeth extracted is definitely a big deal, but if you can read this book and rationalize keeping your root canals, then I've done my duty to inform as best I can.

). I remember the toxicity of the root canals was determined after removal by the lab that Hal Huggins used, but I cannot remember specific details, other than it is a high-order toxicity, one of the most toxic substances known. (I will edit this after reviewing the book I have.) And some form of toxicity was found in from virtually all root canals tested, in other words, this is a large, not a small effect. Either this finding is accurate, or its not. But if it is, then his opinion is certainly not a "stretch" that this toxicity is a major cause of cardiovascular disease. (More later.)

[scottbushey]

Owen,
When I mention it being a stretch, I mention it is relation to Cathcart's dealing with things that are more extensive, i.e. Cancers. If Cancers can be treated by VC, I can't understand how Dr. Levy says that the root canals are untreatable.

[ofonorow]

Here are some quotes (I infer from Hal Huggins) from the book UNINFORMED CONSENT by Drs. Levy an Huggins.

Pg.204 after a discussion how the material used for the root canal "shrinks" leaving room for bacteria to live,

But are bacteria really the problem? In a sense, no. The bacterial products are the real problem. No white blood cell or antibiotic can destroy the chemicals that are produced by the bacteria around the root canal or infected tooth. These chemicals have been shown in research at the University of Kentucky to kill the most important enzymes in our bodies at lower concentrations that the most toxic organic poisons known. It is impossible to conceive the potential danger these chemicals create. Diseases can be stimulated when these chemicals are present at very little more than the molecular level of concentration. Even one half part per billion can destroy the most resistant enzymes. Inactivating these enzymes (e.g. tubulin and creatine kinase ) can lead to many hormonal, neurological, autoimmune, and emotional diseases.

Earlier, in introducing the work of Boyd Haley at the University of Kentucky, after Huggins told Haley about the positive changes his practice was observing in Alzheimer's patients after dental revisions, pg. 145:

Two critical proteins are involved in brain function. These are tubulin and creatine kinase. Haley's biochemical laboratory at the university (Kentucky) had already shown that the major difference in an Alzheimer's brain and a non-Alzheimer's brain was that the activity of tubulin and creatine kinase were greatly reduced in Alzheimer's brains.

Imagine his shock when small amounts of solution prepared by soaking two extracted root canal teeth in water totally obliterated both tubulin and creatine kinase. Haley called me and asked what was in a root canal that could be that toxic. I had no idea; in fact, that's why I had asked for his help.

He (Haley) asked for more teeth to test . . . Haley found that microliter amounts of water in which teeth had been soaked caused death of these proteins in brains and in separate purified individual tests. He then monitored time and found that in the presence of these root canal toxins, it took only a few minutes to inactivate tubulin and creatine kinase significantly. He was beside himself. "This stuff is extremely toxic. It definitely doesn't belong in humans."

Now to do a little literature search on Haley and this work..

e.g.
Abnormal properties of creatine kinase in Alzheimer's disease brain: correlation of reduced enzyme activity and active site photolabeling with aberrant cytosol-membrane partitioning.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9555058?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

Mercury vapor inhalation inhibits binding of GTP to tubulin in rat brain: similarity to a molecular lesion in Alzheimer diseased brain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9291481?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4

Inhibition of brain tubulin-guanosine 5'-triphosphate interactions by mercury: similarity to observations in Alzheimer's diseased brain.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9046580?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=5

and even a possible connection to another (autism) thread:
A comparison of changes in nucleotide-protein interactions in the striatal, hippocampus and paramedian cortex after cerebral ischemia and reperfusion: correlations to regional vulnerability.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9221922?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

.

[VanCanada]

Gutta percha and root canals in general are not as benign as the A.D.A. would have us believe. More enlightened practitioners such as Huggins and Levy are trying to wake us up to this fact, and have written extensively about it. Before we find important answers we first have to ask the right questions. Is the A.D.A. or even you local dentist asking ANY questions?

Why are these toxicities not measurable? ... (edit)
How is it that the vitamin C reconciles a Candida infection yet leaves the toxic levels from a root canal? additionally, how does the VC differentiate between the toxicities?
~Something doesn't make sense........

The bacteria producing extremely toxic byproducts in one's root canals or cavitations are generally anaerobic. They set up shop where there is little or no oxygen and where your immune system has a difficult time reaching. Then they pump out toxins that are unbelievably toxic. These are like a large house fire; a few grams of vitamin C is like a garden hose. The visibly efficacious effect of the vitamin C is then missing because the dose is not large enough to cope with the situation.

The root canal to dentistry is like stents and statins to cardiology. It's something "everyone knows" is correct but that is really an insidious evil.

[VanCanada]

There are two tests for root canal toxicity. One is called the TOPAS test. It has recently stopped production. A Canadian firm is negotiating for the rights to resume its manufacture. The other test is more expensive and requires an outside lab, at the University of Texas. This test is more reliable than the TOPAS test but also more costly.

[scottbushey]

No one seems to want to address my question: If Cathcart is saying that a cancer can be treated with Vitamin C, why is Levy saying differently? Surely a raging cancer has a higher level of toxicity. I don't hear Cathcart telling us that his research has shown that one root canal nullified all the benefit of vitamin c therapy and getting to bowel tolerance did not necessarily prove that the cancer was being treated.

[jknosplr]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james34.htm