MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:38 am

Owen, I had my first MI 6 years ago. AT that time I started 9 gms C, 6 gms Lysine,1 gm proline in divided doses along with other antioxidants and nutrients. I was shocked when I had a second MI several weeks ago which was moderately severe. Have you any experience with repeat ASCVHD after five years of Pauling Therapy? Please call me or write as I am trying to understand what my options may be to avoid a third MI?

Thanks in advance,
R. E., ( M.D.)


Dear Dr. E.,

In my experience, a relapse is associated with dosage. You might study this topic, viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7593 which is a story of a man and his wife who consumed about the same amount of vitamin C/lysine. He had a relapse, she didn't. Figuring the dosage on the basis of his increasing body weight, he determined he was taking half of what his wife was taking. He increased his dosage, and the symptoms subsided. He created a table based on body weight (at the bottom).

So the first step is probably using Cathcart's bowel tolerance protocol/table, http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm to determine your "ball park" vitamin C, requirement as it may be substantially larger than 9000 mg per day.

There are other potential issues, and a good place to start is Dr. Levy's book STOP AMERICAS #1 KILLER livonbooks.com There can be many factors that work to deplete vitamin C, and ultimately the ground substance/ collagen supporting arteries near the heart. Dr. Levy suggests many nutrients for increasing the strength and stability of the arteries, and most of these are included in the Tower Ascorsine-9 formula.

And one way to avoid many of the issues with high vitamin C intake is to include 1 or 2 packets of livonlabs.com Lypo-C (liposomal) vitamin C. Dr. Levy is convinced this can be as efficacious as IV ascorbate.

I will post this anonymously at the forum in case others have ideas.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:42 am

Dear Owen, Thanks for the quick comeback. I will push my C up to bowel limit and recalibrate. According to the chart my C mg./kg is 120. I have read Dr. Levy's books and have been taking one packet of LipoC at night before bedtime. Additionally, I have been taking individually vit A, lipoic acid, chelated magnesium, B complex, selenium, Ubiquinone, and fish oil. Any other thoughts....quite welcome.

R. E. (M.D.)



Dear Dr. E.,

How far off was your current C intake?

Unless you are very young - CoQ10, (oh I see - ubiquinone :-)

I recently discovered the importance of vitamin D3, which is esp. important in winter if you live above Atlanta. Otherwise, are you taking a Tower product? Lysine/Proline you mentioned, but what about Vitamin E? not to mention Chrondroitin/Taurine, etc. in their Ascorsine-9.

My entire recommendation is posted as a PDF here:
http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutali ... /protocol/

Tower products are at hearttechnology.com

Dental work? Drugs??
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#3  Post by Johnwen » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:01 am

How about those guarenteed MI inducers. Stents!!
Did they put any in the first time?
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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#4  Post by scottbushey » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:43 pm

I was under the impression that divided dosing is a waste unless you are using the Dynamic flow theory.

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:05 am

scottbushey wrote:I was under the impression that divided dosing is a waste unless you are using the Dynamic flow theory.

I don't understand. Dynamic flow is the reason for using divided dosages, e.g. 500 mg every 3/4 hours. (Before Hickey/Roberts, I would take about 9000 mg twice per day).
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:09 am

Dear Owen (if I may call you that!),

Thanks again for the information. I am taking everything Dr Pauling (and you) have suggested except the Taurine, D3 in the winter and the melatonin in the doses as recommended as well except that I've backed off on the natural E to 400 IU/day from the 800. I suspect now that my relatively high sugar intake may be blunting my C cellular uptake. It's either that or my genetics that are undermining my cardiovascular health I think. I am going to raise my intake of Co Q, and concentrated fish oil as well as try again the melatonin. How does the L-Taurine fit into this equation?

Regarding my C intake. I haven't yet tested my current bowel tolerance......

I very much appreciate all you have done to educate people. I've been trying to educate doctors but now my second MI undermines my credibility (as it should!).

R. E.



Yes, sugar (glucose) competes for cellular uptake with ascorbate. Dr. Ely ran a study (unpublished) to test his Glucose-Ascorbate Antagonism theory. He told me that the study showed a huge impact reducing colds in the C group with carbohydrates restricted.

The other issue is that sugary food also contain hydrogenated fats, which distrubs cell membranes, also interfering with glucose/C uptake.

So what is your blood sugar?

Given this, I would cut out junk foods/trans fats, increase Omega/3s, and take sugary foods away from vitamin C intake. I would increase to 2 Lypo-C daily. If blood sugar much above 90, I would add 300 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid twice daily. Finally, I would consider taking a 500 mg vitamin C tablet every 3/4 hours, in addition and between your current intake.

According to the late Robert Atkins, MD, "if the medical profession knew the benefits of taurine for heart patients, it would be "the number 2 or 3 prescription." (Vita-Nutrient Solution) My understanding is that a primary function is to help the body utilize fat soluble substances/vitamins.
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#7  Post by scottbushey » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:11 am

Owen,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. When I think of Hickey's dynamic flow and what people typically think of dividsing doses, it is not the same. For instance, Pauling divided his doses. I believe AM and PM. This is not the same as Dynamic flow. My understanding is to follow dynamic flow, you are to separate your bowel tolerance over your waking hours. This is different from the way people would actually define divided dosing.

Happy Holidays by the way.

Scott

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:15 am

So the problem is the word "divided", heh?

Dynamic Flow seems to dictate smaller and more frequent dosing, if the goal is a constant ascorbate blood level. One of Pauling's main points was that even a single dose per day is important, and not to skip a single day.

Happy New Year to you and all forum posters!
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: MD Reports Second Heart Attack While on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#9  Post by Johnwen » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:41 pm

For those who have got lost on this topic this should help clear it up about,"Dynamic Flow."

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/j ... 4-p237.pdf

Repeat question: Did he have stents put in? Some of the coated stents used 6 to 10 years ago come back with a vengance after about 5 to 10 years when the coating diminishes and he could be fortunate he was on the Pauling therapy otherwise it could have hit him a lot harder. :?:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15816251/
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
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