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 Questions ***Dr visit follow up*** 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:22 am
Posts: 7
Post Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Hello all.
I came on this site while doing some research and hope you can help.

I have been diagnosed with PAD, more specific. my right iliac artery has some blockage.
I am 48 years old and former smoker. All my blood work from physical is fine.

My vascular Dr. placed me on low dose aspirin and suggested a multi vitamin, 1000mg C and a B complex per day.
I forgot, I am also on blood pressure Med, it is a calicum blocker but do not have name right now.

Now my question. Are there any examples where taking the Vit C will help clear the blockage I have.
If so, what are the details of what I should be doing with the vit C.

I have seen many claims online where a oral chelation can help, but frankly it all seems to good to be true.

Just looking for some safe ideas to help me with this.

Thanks
Tom


Last edited by sgtwillys on Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mon May 03, 2010 6:09 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Questions
First of all I like to say that,” I’m taken aside by a vascular doctor recommending vitamin C and a B complex for PAD!” Sounds like a smart Doctor to me!
Now in Pad there’s many types of injuries and normal progressions that can cause blockages in these arteries. Since the docs aren’t talking about cornary blockages or atherosclerosis or what ever fancy term they chose. Also at this point they haven’t put you statins and plavix this would give a good indication that were not dealing with a plaque issue other then what would occur to heal an injury at a particular point. Most diagnosing imaging would represent this as “Calcification.” If this is how it’s represented then it should be assumed that your at a stabile point and the doctor is taking a wait and see if there is progression.
Understanding the anatomy of an artery and it’s healing process which Dr. Pauling described as a, “cascade of events!” is helpful. He also belived that most cornary artery problems are caused by Chronic scurvy. This is where the inner lining of the artery starts to fall apart due to the lack of collagen which hold the cells together. Vitamin C is a critical part in the production of collagen and our bodies do not produce it as some other life forms do.
Trauma can also cause a cracking of the intima which is the inner lining of the artery and the body must repair this injury. The same as if you cut yourself however it must do it more rapidly. There is many sites on the web that explain this process however the final step is a calcium coat which stops the process. If the coat does not form quick enough the other steps will continue until the artery is completely clogged. Which results in cell death downstream of the clog.
There is also many other types of damage that can occur in Peripheral arteries one being a form of hernia of the intima where the medial muscle protrudes into the blood flow and since there is no loss of blood the body doesn’t recognize it as a threat and ignores it. However the blood that forms in the protrusion can cause it to expand till blocks the blood flow completely.
Ok what you can do to fix this. Let me say at this point if your PAD is calcification. The healing process is not an overnight event it can take up to a year to start seeing any good results. Dr. Pauling recommended for those with blockage to start with 6000mg. Of Vitamin C and about 3000mg of L-Lysine. Taken over the course of the day once your body get used to the actions of vitamin C you can titrate up to see what your body actually needs and adjust from there. This is covered at this link:

http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

As far as Oral chelation compounds both EDTA (oral) or Inositol Hexaphospate (IP6) will remove calcium but as far as speeding up the process I don’t believe it’ll do any miracles. Check out the posts on this forum there’s a world of knowledge here and very many well educated and helpful people here. Hope this helps.

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Mon May 03, 2010 8:55 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:22 am
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Post Re: Questions
Thanks for your answers.

The Dr never said more than blockage. I did have the cuff tests on my arms and legs which showed everything normal other than right leg.
Also had the ultra sound that showed all the arteries in both legs to be normal for a person my age.

There was never a word from the Dr on taking statins or plavix. Just the vitamins and low dose aspirin. He did say more exercise is needed to increase my HDL (it was within normal ranges just want it higher because it can help clean arteries I guess). I did ask about a glass of wine a day and he said go for it.

I guess it is a wait and see attitude like you said. I am to return in 3 months for a recheck.
He also said he can only take care of symptoms and not the cause with surgery and he won't even consider that until my quality of life is really decreased. I guess that is a good thing from some stories I have read.

So I guess it is time to start the Vit C program.

One more thing. Is the Vit C powder better than pills ? I have some 1000mg pills that are a chore to swallow.
I also see Vit C is made from different types, Sodium Ascorbate, Ascorbic Acid and I think there was a calcium type also. Which one should I use?

And of course the cost is a issue for me also.

This is all so new to me I hope I am not boring you.

Thanks so much


Last edited by sgtwillys on Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue May 04, 2010 4:31 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Questions
Quote:
So I guess it is time to start the Vit C program.

One more thing. Is the Vit C powder better than pills ? I have some 1000mg pills that are a chore to swallow.
I also see Vit C is made from different types, Sodium Ascorbate, Ascorbic Acid and I think there was a calcium type also. Which one should I use?


I too am quite impressed by your doctor's recommendation!

Pills are generally fine, but look for brands with minimal fillers. We generally recommend ascorbic acid, but some people find they need some sodium ascorbate to avoid stomach issues. I think bulk vitamin C powder (ascorbic acid, or perhaps a mixture with 10% sodium ascorbate) is the most economical. As per last post, don't forget to add lysine.

Here is a protocol to help you begin Pauling's recommended "therapy" for CVD which may or may not offer significant relief for PAD per last post. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8026&p=20822#p20822

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Wed May 05, 2010 5:22 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:22 am
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Post **follow up***Re: Questions
****FOLLOW UP****

Hello everyone.
Just wanted to take a few minutes to give you an update to my post and questions.

Today I went to my Vascular Dr for a 3 month checkup. As he was checking my the pulse in my right foot using his fingers he jumped up and said "be right back" and bolted from the room. Ok, now I'm in a bit of panic.
He then returns with a instrument that they use to hear blood low (kind of like a audio ultrasound I guess). He places it behind my ankle and he the wosh, wosh, wosh the sound makes.
Now I must say something cause I am a bit scared/confused. so I asked what's wrong. I was confused because he commented on my foot feeling warm and toes had good color.
His reply was "I don't know what you have been doing but you now have a pulse behind you ankle which WAS NOT there 3 months ago and that is a very good thing" He then apologized for scaring me saying he is used to seeing worse or no improvement in cases like mine and he was glad to see great improvement and just got excited. He looked at the chart and confirmed no other Dr. put me on any meds other than blood pressure. No statins or plavix!!!!

I told him what I have been doing because he wanted to know everything. I gave him my routine I have been following since this problem developed.

eat better, less junk and lots of fruit and fish. Try to do glass of wine at dinner.
Exercise by walking and bicycle riding (walking is mostly just parking in the back row at work)
Now for the part you have been waiting for
Vitamin C 3000 mg a day (1000 each meal, sometimes I do forget) and L Lysine 500mg twice a day.
Multi Vitamin one per day
B Complex one per day
one low dose aspirin (which he suggested last visit along with multi and B)

To sum it up he wants me to stay the course and not decrease or change anything other than exercise (he wants it steadily increased as it should be) to raise my HDL. He will not get me near statins or plavix or even consider anything like surgery.
I did tell him I felt Vit C had a big part in it. He just looked at me and smiled and said he needs to look into that some more because something is definitely working but felt is is everything combined.

So did vit C improve the circulation in my foot and toes? Who knows for sure, But I have proof I have improved with vit C as part of my routine and that is good enough for me.

Thanks
Tom


Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:27 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Great report - thank you, and as you say, who know for sure? But it is consistent with hundreds of other reports, many of which we have posted http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutali ... #TESTIMONY

Now I am happy that you have apparently made good progress, and that "low" amount of vitamin C may indeed be right for you, but it is a rather low dosage. If you could double it without gas/diarrhea, I would. Also, I understand the reason for the advice of low dose aspirin, but I do not like that advice. But that is another story...

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:56 am
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
I will double it and see what results I get.
I am just cautious by nature and do believe you can over do things. I do realize what I am taking is a very low dose, since it seems to be helping, we will see what happens with the increase.

Now the search is on for what I can do to get me off the blood pressure meds.

Thanks Everyone
I will keep you posted


Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:50 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Many report that their blood pressure drops on the Pauling vitamin C/lysine therapy, and remember, high blood pressure during stressful moments - such as a visit to the doctor - is normal and expected. Seems to be part of the "fight or flight" evolutionary response and it helps drive nutrients into cells. It is only abnormal if the high blood pressure is fairly constant.

Also check out magnesium and vitamin B6. Magnesium will lower blood pressure and Bill Sardi reported that about 200 mg of a good B6 competes with several BP drugs.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:58 am
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Post Re: L-Arginine, Ignarro, Prendergast
sgtwillys wrote:
Now the search is on for what I can do to get me off the blood pressure meds.


If I had high blood pressure I would ingest L-Arginine. At least 5 grams total daily amount, maybe much more depending on the individual. Total amount taken in 2 to 4 doses daily. If you take below about 2 grams in a dose you are wasting your time and money. You have to surpass a certain threshold amount per dose (not per day - per dose) to get the benefit, which is an increase in nitric oxide in the blood.

For example, if you decide to take only three grams per day (should be at least five grams daily but whatever) then take the three grams all in one dose, and NOT in divided doses.

This nitric oxide/L-Arginine scientific discovery won a Nobel Prize for Louis Ignarro and others. the m.d. with the longest and most effective clinical history with L-arginine is Joe Prendergast in California. Check out his many interviews (free) on the Vitamin Shelf website.


Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:00 am

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:22 am
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
That is great info.
Thanks so much


Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:09 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:22 am
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
6 month Vascular Dr update.

Went to Dr for the 6 month visit. He checked the blood flow in my feet and said it is still improving. After I told him my routine and about riding my bicycle on a 300 mile trip last fall he said "get the hell out of my office you don't need me" ha ha. Made me feel good.

He decided since there is improvement, in 6 months he wants to do another ultrasound to confirm the blood flow in the right leg is the same or greater than my first ultrasound (but he feels from what he can tell it is for sure). If that is the case, I will visit him once a year for follow ups.

We went over my supplements. I told him I take 6000 mg Vit C a day. I was waiting to hear "that's too much" or "why that much" but he said "ok, I take 2000 mg a day". this was the Dr. who said he would look into the vitamin C on my last visit. Last visit he said he takes Vit C during cold season. Now he is taking it everyday? Hummm. I was pressed for time or I would have asked him more as to why he now takes it every day.

Will let you know how it goes in 6 months :o
Thanks


Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:40 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Good news. Thank you for the report(s).

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:20 am
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Post Another followupRe: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Hello folks, been a while since I posted any followups so I figured I would.

Office check up. Showed no change in blood flow in my leg even after I increased the Vit C. Pain returned when walking and realized it helped at first but then It was like I hit a wall, increasing did nothing. Before I wanted to talk about drugs with the Dr. I decided to return to nature in a way.
I changed my diet to a 90% plant based 10% lean animal based. It is a nutritarian lifestyle program by a Dr. who is not the typical drug pusher. Reading the information and the stories of people who have actually "cleaned their plumbing" by eating plant based diet. Figured what's to loose. Cut out junk food, sodas and processed foods. Eat lots of greens and fruit. I stopped all supplements and figured I get what I need from what I eat.

In 6 months, all my symptoms of PAD are GONE by 98%. Blood pressure is down to near normal 115/75 with out meds. and I'm loosing weight which I needed to do.
EKG and blood work were perfect on checkup. The blood flow in my foot has increased to the point where I return to Vascular Dr. in ONE YEAR. He was just floored by the improvement. And I just feel like a different person.

I don't want to put the program link in my post for it may seem like a sales pitch. I just posted another thing to try. If Vit C works for you, eating right can only help the improvements you see now with Vit C

Just remember, you are what you eat.

Thanks


Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:28 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Questions ***Dr visit follow up***
Just want to clarify - you stopped all supplements including vitamin C? How long ago? (I wrote my book, in part, to reveal the phenomenon of people feeling cured, going off vitamin C, and then having a predictable relapse, (usually a heart attack), in about six months.)

Obviously cutting out junk foods (trans fats) was smart!

It is highly probable given your success on your new found diet, that it is the correct diet for you. We are all different, and the idea of metabolic diets was invented by the late William Kelley. This is described on the wonderful DVD by Nick Gonzalez
http://www.amazon.com/Enzymes-Cancer-Nicholas-J-Gonzalez/dp/B001OI36GW/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344085197&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=gonazalez+enzymes+and+cancer

However, remember your initial report where the immediate effects of vitamin C supplementation surprised your doctor. Now that you feel good, you want to stay that way, and in addition to your diet, you might consider reading LINUS PAULING'S BOOK How To Live Longer and Feel Better and following is basic "insurance" regimen on page 14.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:03 am
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Post Re: How best to take L-Arginine
Bumping this for the sake of forum member 'freddy' and his recent question in another thread.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:29 pm
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