Statins Cause Diabetes

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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J.Lilinoe

Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#16  Post by J.Lilinoe » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:48 pm

When my mother began taking 20 mgs of LIPITOR back in 2006 immediately after her stroke, w/in 8 weeks of taking the drug, the doctors diagnosed her as being pre diabetic.

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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#17  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:55 am

I originally tried to contact Dr. Gaby through the publisher of the Townsend Letter. Apparently the message was forwarded, and today I got this email, and they provided Dr. Gaby's email and I have asked for a copy of the correction..

Dr. Gaby has provided us a correction notice for the next issue. If you would like to correspond with him, his email is ....

With best wishes,
Editor
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#18  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:35 am

Hi Owen,

Thank you for your correspondence. As you or your forum-readers figured out, I made a calculation error in my editorial.

It should have stated: Thus, for every 3 heart attacks prevented by a statin, approximately one new cases of diabetes will occur.

The Townsend Letter will be printing a correction in a future issue. Thank you for picking up this error.

The results of the new study suggest that the long-term benefit of taking a statin would be decreased (though not completely eliminated) by the increased incidence of diabetes.


Sincerely, Alan Gaby
Owen R. Fonorow
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Ralph Lotz
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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#19  Post by Ralph Lotz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:25 am

The results of the new study suggest that the long-term benefit of taking a statin would be decreased (though not completely eliminated) by the increased incidence of diabetes.


So what we have here is "disease substitution," with a laundry list of additional medications to control blood sugar, blood pressure, triglycerides and kidney failure, etc.

Now how about putting diabetics on statins for 5 or more years and see what happens to them?
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

godsilove

Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#20  Post by godsilove » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:04 pm

Ralph Lotz wrote:Now how about putting diabetics on statins for 5 or more years and see what happens to them?


This was already done more than a decade ago with the Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study, which included 202 diabetic patients at baseline. Total mortality was reduced (albeit non-significantly), as were major CHD events and atherosclerotic events after statin treatment for a median of 5.4 years.

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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#21  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:13 am

RESULTS: Over the 5.4-year median follow-up period, simvastatin treatment produced mean changes in serum lipids in diabetic patients similar to those observed in nondiabetic patients. The relative risks (RRs) of main endpoints in simvastatin-treated diabetic patients were as follows: total mortality 0.57 (95% CI, 0.30-1.08; P = 0.087), major CHD events 0.45 (95% CI, 0.27-0.74; P = 0.002), and any atherosclerotic event 0.63 (95% CI, 0.43-0.92; P = 0.018). The corresponding RRs in nondiabetic patients were the following: 0.71 (95% CI, 0.58-0.87; P = 0.001), 0.68 (95% CI, 0.60-0.77; P < 0.0001), and 0.74 (95% CI, 0.68-0.82; P < 0.0001).


Tell me, isn't this saying that total mortality risk in 5 years was 57%?? And a risk of a major CHD event was 45%? But that seems contrary to the finding of 71% in "non diabetic patients", why would non diabetics have a higher risk?? So how do you interpret these results??
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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#22  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:26 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_risk

I see that the .57 number is not mortality, but a ratio of mortality of study subjects over placebo? So the "relative risk" of dying is said to be about half in the study groups. ERgo if 1 person died in study group and 2 died in placebo group, the RR would be .5

I am still confused about the .7 number in the "non diabetic" groups. That would mean that 3 people died in study group for every 4 in the placebo group, right? So the risks are more equivalent, and I guess without knowing the absolute numbers, these statistics provide little information.

For example, what if there are 100 times the numbers in the non-diabetic group data?

So what is the mortality? Why use relative risk, why not just provide the mortality in all groups?

For example, reading Gonzalez's book, he cites the mortality statistics (at the time, mid 1980s) of each form of cancer in his case studies. For example, the rate of mortality of colon cancer at that time was 50% after five years. That is easy to understand.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

godsilove

Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#23  Post by godsilove » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:54 pm

ofonorow wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_risk

I see that the .57 number is not mortality, but a ratio of mortality of study subjects over placebo? So the "relative risk" of dying is said to be about half in the study groups. ERgo if 1 person died in study group and 2 died in placebo group, the RR would be .5

I am still confused about the .7 number in the "non diabetic" groups. That would mean that 3 people died in study group for every 4 in the placebo group, right? So the risks are more equivalent, and I guess without knowing the absolute numbers, these statistics provide little information.

For example, what if there are 100 times the numbers in the non-diabetic group data?

So what is the mortality? Why use relative risk, why not just provide the mortality in all groups?

For example, reading Gonzalez's book, he cites the mortality statistics (at the time, mid 1980s) of each form of cancer in his case studies. For example, the rate of mortality of colon cancer at that time was 50% after five years. That is easy to understand.


The abstract obviously does not list all the results. I don't have access to the full paper, but the absolute risks in the diabetic subgroup would probably be there. In the 4S study, total mortality for both diabetics and nondiabetics in the simvastatin arm was 8%, compared to 12% in the placebo group.

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Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#24  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:21 am

The abstract obviously does not list all the results. I don't have access to the full paper, but the absolute risks in the diabetic subgroup would probably be there. In the 4S study, total mortality for both diabetics and nondiabetics in the simvastatin arm was 8%, compared to 12% in the placebo group.


And remind us, how long was that study?
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

godsilove

Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#25  Post by godsilove » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:14 pm

ofonorow wrote:
The abstract obviously does not list all the results. I don't have access to the full paper, but the absolute risks in the diabetic subgroup would probably be there. In the 4S study, total mortality for both diabetics and nondiabetics in the simvastatin arm was 8%, compared to 12% in the placebo group.


And remind us, how long was that study?


Median of 5.2 years

JayZee

Re: Statins Cause Diabetes

Post Number:#26  Post by JayZee » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:48 am

Not to change the subject from this statin study and Gaby's numbers but -
what's so hard to understand about any drug induced diabetes?

There are tons of references...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... =&gs_rfai=

Look what statins have done for the CHF rate.
Go Team Pharma! :wink:


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