61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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ofonorow
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61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:10 am

Dear Dr. Fonorrow,

I've been in Ministry for over 30- years and have a Doctor of Ministry degree. I said that to say that I developed heart disease from high blood pressure and poor eating, exercise habits over several decades.

I do thoroughly enjoy your work with Vitamin C Foundation and have been greatly blessed by the knowledge I've gained from it. Thank you Doctor.

I tried to find answers to my questions on your website and registered as a member so I could ask these questions because I know you're busy. I haven't been accepted as a member yet- but I'm hopeful I will be soon.

I'm a 61 year old male with 10 years angina. I've spent my substance trying to find all manner of cures and programs of which none have been successful at reversing my heart problem and recurring angina. When I found your Foundation, it was an answer to prayer, and admittedly, my final hope.

I listened to all your radio shows, read much of your online info and eagerly began the program you recommended on May 5.

When I reached 10 days, then 2 weeks with no marked results, I questioned myself as the right candidate. Now I'm on my 62nd day with no noticeable results. I take 16-18 grams of AA, 4 gs of Lysine, and 1-2 each of Carnitine and Proline along with 200 mgs of COQ10.

My question is simple: are my results somewhat typical as opposed to the 10 days to 2 weeks some others have gotten?

Sir, if you have answered these questions online and I missed them (I've tried to read most everything I can), I am sorry. Could you kindly give me the url and I'll pull up your discussion so you won't have to repeat yourself.

Please help me Dr. Fonorrow. I don't have many options left.

Thank you sincerely,
MikeJ


Re: not experiencing results - lets use the forum to explore the possibilities. Off the top of my head, what drugs you are taking, do you have diabetes (sugar competing with vitamin C), or medicated stents, etc.

Can you provide more about your symptoms and

Medical history
drugs you are now taking
any other data you may have, such as cholesterol levels.

And how are you taking that vitamin C? Do you think you are near you bowel tolerance? See: orthomed.com/titrate.htm
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:24 pm

I agree with Owen a little more detailed info. would be of great help. The one thing that sticks out is 10 years angina! That in itself would be a good indicator that he is not going to be a fast fix, because things have had time to calcify and Thank God didn't completely close up.
The key for the time being is what Dr. Pauling said, "Don't stop taking your Vitamin C NOT EVEN FOR A SINGLE DAY!"
This apply's here more then ever!
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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#3  Post by Ralph Lotz » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:10 pm

Additional suggested nutrients:
500 mg daily of magnesium (not oxide)
1 tablespoon daily of a good fish oil like Carlson's
5,000 IU daily of vitamin D3
100 mcg daily of vitamin K2 (MK-7)
1,000-3,000 mg daily of niacin. Niacin reduces Lp(a), LDL and triglycerides while increasing HDL.

Adopt a Mediterranean diet and eliminate sugar and high fructose corn syrup.

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God."
Philippians 4:6 NASB
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

MikeJ

Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#4  Post by MikeJ » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:01 am

Thank you all for your kind and knowledgeable replies. :D

My med history is blank (thank the Lord) except for the heart blockage revealed by two stress tests several years ago. My cardiologist would like to perform a heart cath but I have refused all invasive procedures.

Regarding meds, etc, along with the vitamins mentioned I take blood pressure meds daily (Toprolol- 100mg x 2 and a generic Altace 10mg). I take a multivitamin, liq B12, garlic capsule, Multi B, Magnesium (100-150 mg), vitamin e (400-800 iu), fish oil capsules, 4-6 Tb of flaxseed per week, and nitros as needed.

I eat mostly vegan diet. I don't eat hydrogenated anything, maintain a low sodium intake, and eat very little if any fructose, corn syrup or honey. I drink mostly water (but not enough 1-3 cups daily) and vanilla soy milk. I am trying to exercise more by walking with frequent stops due to angina bouts. I was drinking coffee but have stopped 2 days ago. Current problems: I am finding it difficult to eat much that doesn't trigger angina 2-3 hours later- even oatmeal when eaten after 5pm. But I am maintaining my Vitamin C (AA powder) regimen consistently; 4 grams (bowel tolerance) every 4 hours @4x per day.

Again thank you. Your input is very much appreciated.

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#5  Post by Ralph Lotz » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:02 am

Have doctor check vitamin D3 levels - 25(OH)D test. Levels should be above 50 ng/ml according to vitamin D Council.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PYsXQ16Ztg

4 grams of lysine may be too low. Try 6-8 grams daily.

Arginine may be helpful to increase NO.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 105351921#
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:11 am

If L-arginine doesn't seem to help try L-citruline.
On the L-arginine make sure you read the label directions a lot give a Mg. dosage but it's for 2 or 3 Capsules taking the proper dosage will help assure results.

A contrast CT with a resolution over 64 with the latest software will give the doc's a very good picture of your heart. Without the trauma to the body! I've seen these results and the veiws are very impressive down to the millimeter.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:26 am

MikeJ wrote:Thank you all for your kind and knowledgeable replies. :D

My med history is blank (thank the Lord) except for the heart blockage revealed by two stress tests several years ago. My cardiologist would like to perform a heart cath but I have refused all invasive procedures.

Regarding meds, etc, along with the vitamins mentioned I take blood pressure meds daily (Toprolol- 100mg x 2 and a generic Altace 10mg). I take a multivitamin, liq B12, garlic capsule, Multi B, Magnesium (100-150 mg), vitamin e (400-800 iu), fish oil capsules, 4-6 Tb of flaxseed per week, and nitros as needed.

I eat mostly vegan diet. I don't eat hydrogenated anything, maintain a low sodium intake, and eat very little if any fructose, corn syrup or honey. I drink mostly water (but not enough 1-3 cups daily) and vanilla soy milk. I am trying to exercise more by walking with frequent stops due to angina bouts. I was drinking coffee but have stopped 2 days ago. Current problems: I am finding it difficult to eat much that doesn't trigger angina 2-3 hours later- even oatmeal when eaten after 5pm. But I am maintaining my Vitamin C (AA powder) regimen consistently; 4 grams (bowel tolerance) every 4 hours @4x per day.

Again thank you. Your input is very much appreciated.



It sounds like the immediate problem is Angina after eating, a syndrome that a Pauling-therapy protocol has not relieved.

I first looked at the drug Toprolol ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metoprolol ) and while I couldn't really figure out what it does, I did not like the precaustions, especially the part about possibly aggravating heart failure, etc.

I think the first question is whether this pain is caused by a lack of blood flow to the heart, or something else, e.g. gall bladder. (I have personal experience with an inflamed gallbladder and gall stones causing severe pains near the heart that I interpreted as heart pain - but wasn't) Lets assume that you are not eating much fat, given that you are a vegan, I can envision a problem with your gall bladder because this organ has the purpose of collecting bile until you eat some fat. And you are a rare individual who has not reacted favorably to Pauling's recommended treatment. Johnwen, is there a way MikeJ can rule out gall bladder?

Assuming that the pain is caused by a lack of blood to the heart, that becomes worse eating (as blood is diverted to the stomach) you are doing the right thing in terms of supplements. By following Pauling's general advice, e.g. vitamin C (up to 18 g), vitamin E (400 to 800 iu), vitamin A (25,000 iu), Super B-complex, Multi (and I would add Vitamin D 2000 to 5000 iu) and CoQ10 (200-400 mg) plus the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors - lysine/proline, you are improving the health of your cardiovascular system. I would continue this program.

The other issue is the vegan diet. And the soy milk. Sigh..

Yes, stay far away from artificially hydrogenated (trans) fats, but unless you are a vegan for religious or moral reasons, I think you might be suffering from your diet.

Our expertise is generally vitamin C and supplementation, but we have also learned that current advice of a high carbohydrate, low fat diet does more to harm health than to improve it. I do not know your ancestory, but if European, your metabolism may have been tuned to eat meats with saturated fats. I am (finally) reading a book I was given, THEY ARE MAKING YOU FAT AND SICK, that points out how nutritious saturated fat is, and recommends raw milk, raw eggs, meats and cheese as nutritious staples of any diet, especially for those with European ancestors. This is because for at least 5 months out of the year, the only food available during the winter months was animal-based. (This idea also coincides with the William Kelley Metabolic Diet.)

I would stop the soy milk immediately, if not sooner, (trust us - you do not want to be ingesting estrogen-like soy). Instead, replace it with whole milk. (The simple rationale is that eating fats slows down your digestion, which can slow down the carbs which are turning into sugar and spiking insulin, etc. Once we find out why you are vegan, we can discuss the diet some more.)
Owen R. Fonorow
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American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:05 am

My Daughter had her gallbladder removed about 8 years ago. Since then she had a series of problems that regular medicine couldn't solve. This company's products brought her back to normal. Since then it's had a permenant spot in my Favorites!
It gives a very comprehensive veiw and covers a lot more then I could post on this forum.

http://www.gallbladderattack.com/gallbl ... toms.shtml

except for the heart blockage revealed by two stress tests several years ago.


This still concerns me without a further look,see at whats going on to rule out a cardiac problem. I believe he should maintain the PT until something else is revealed. We know it can only help!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

VanCanada

Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#9  Post by VanCanada » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:51 am

MikeJ wrote:My med history is blank (thank the Lord) except for ...


Angina is sometimes a result of heavy metal poisoning. Have you or have you had any silver fillings or other exposures to heavy metals?

Have you had a hair tissue mineral analysis performed?

Have you read the list of symptoms in the book Amalgam Illness by Cutler. If that list sounds like you, we may be on to something.

-VanCanada

MikeJ

Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#10  Post by MikeJ » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:18 am

Thank you all so very much for your kind and thoughtful responses to my dilemma. I will weigh each of them and after much prayerful consideration will move forward.

I will also explore the possible gall bladder connection that's been advanced. My son had his removed in his early-mid twenties and has not experienced any serious problems since.

I did, btw, order the suggested Arginine Powder to add to my current regimen. It will be here Tuesday.

Again, I am humbled and grateful for your concern and advice. I know I am on the right path and will report the blessing of restored health as it occurs :lol:

Shalom, MikeJ

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#11  Post by sweetjames » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:31 am

Hello Paster, I hope and Pray that the vitamin c foundation will be a benifit to you and help you make some progress on your condition, like it has for many others. My father is 83 and has angina also, he is taking lots of vitamin c , Lysine and Proline along with some others, He has recently started a new treatment called - Enhanced External Counter Pulsation - Ive heard good things about it and he seems to be doing great, maybe this treatment can be a benifit to you also, best wishes, God bless

MikeJ

Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#12  Post by MikeJ » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:02 am

Sorry Dr. Fonorow, I forgot to answer you. I am actually vegetarian (not full vegan); not from Christian conviction, but out of fear from what I've been told BY vegetarians and things I've read about the problems with sat. fats and cholesterol.

Thank you again for your help.

MikeJ

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:43 am

MikeJ wrote:Sorry Dr. Fonorow, I forgot to answer you. I am actually vegetarian (not full vegan); not from Christian conviction, but out of fear from what I've been told BY vegetarians and things I've read about the problems with sat. fats and cholesterol.

Thank you again for your help.

MikeJ


In that case, we need to work on an attitude adjustment. How does one convince others that saturated fats aren't bad for you, rather, in truth they are actually nutritious! Or that ordinary cholesterol isn't bad for you, but in truth it is a substance vital for health, and that people with higher cholesterol levels generally feel better and are healthier!

You could take my word for it :lol:

It is right to be skeptical, especially since the opposite message has been drummed into us all for decades. I think step #1 is to read the 1986 book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER by Linus Pauling. At the time he wrote it, during a saturated fat scare, his words seemed radical. He wrote that meat and eggs are "fine foods", but these recommendations are now parroted by most dieticians.

I love this new book I am reading THEY ARE MAKING YOU FAT AND SICK as the author (Springer) minces no words. I believe he can convince anybody that saturated fat is a nutritious part of the diet. See: http://www.amazon.com/Theyre-Making-You ... 026&sr=1-1 This book will definitely make you think twice about eating carbs!

I have written a couple of articles on cholesterol that might help

http://www.internetwks.com/owen/TruthChol.htm

http://www.internetwks.com/owen/fear.htm

Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#14  Post by bbtri » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:34 am

ofonorow wrote: This book will definitely make you think twice about eating carbs!


I sure hate seeing carbs being tarred with the same brush fats were. Most of the healthiest foods you can eat, e.g. fresh vegetables and fruits are primarily carbohydrates. These are also the best natural sources of vitamin C. Avoiding refined and high glycemic carbs is a good idea, but 'avoiding carbs' is a recipe for ill health.

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Re: 61-year old Minister with 10-year Angina

Post Number:#15  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:33 am

I sure hate seeing carbs being tarred with the same brush fats were. Most of the healthiest foods you can eat, e.g. fresh vegetables and fruits are primarily carbohydrates. These are also the best natural sources of vitamin C. Avoiding refined and high glycemic carbs is a good idea, but 'avoiding carbs' is a recipe for ill health.


I'll concede your point, (in accordance with the Kelley Metabolic Diet theory),at least in those whose ancestors were from more temperate climates and had access to fruits and vegetables throughout the year.

However, the more Northern the climate of the ancestors, the more it was impossible to have any fruits and vegetables, as Springer points out, for at least 5 months out of the year. These people are from lines that generally evolved to eat meats and fats. (Remember our Intuit Eskimo friends - all saturated fat (blubber) and no carbs, and health and no heart disease.

I do recommend that Springer book if you honestly feel that fruits and vegetables are "good" foods and that ill health results from avoiding them, as I believe it will dispel this notion rather quickly. (I would value the opinion of someone who believes as you after reading Springer's book.) As you say, low glycemic index foods would generally be "less bad." but it is an interesting viewpoint.
Owen R. Fonorow
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