Can vitamin C cause stroke in CHF females with diabetes

[m.hash]

I have read a research which said the risk of stroke in diabetic ladies with chronic heart failure increases with the intake of vitamin C.

How true is this. Based on this research i avoided giving my mom Vitamin C for her heart condition though she is a borderline diabetic whose diabetes is under control through a strong sugar free diet.She may also have ovarian cancer and is scheduled to have her biopsy in a couple of days.

I would like to start her on Vitamin C but am hesitant due to what i read in this research. Can't find the link to it right now, will post it later whenever i come across it again.

[ofonorow]

Where is this so called research? Why did it not make any news? I am certain the truth is the opposite. All indications are that diabetics require more, not less vitamin C for a host of reasons. I see no mechanism by which vitamin C, even in diabetics, would predispose any diabetic to either kind of stroke. Clearly the opposite because as arteries weaken, they are more prone to burst. So if any one can find a reference to this "study" we will review it.

[m.hash]

found the link to this clinical study:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/5/1194

started my mom on vitamin C(5oomg) today and her sugar level went up to 212, 2 hours after she had her food. Is Vitamin C also somehow detected during diabetes blood test

[ofonorow]

Yes, vitamin C can apparently affect glucose measurements (we've learned) but I had not heard that only 500 mg had such an effect!? What type of Diabetes does she have? (Type I or Type II. If Type II you would do well to read http://www.healingmatters.com/deception.htm and then the entire healingmatters.com web site. Many people at this forum have reported to me that they have conquered their Type 2 by following Smith's advice/protocol. And even if originally diagnosed with Type I - she can still suffer Type II, the cell membrane disturbance.)

Now as far as that link, I would not put much stock in this "research." First, their hypothesis was that vitamin C would increase atherosclerosis, based on it being a pro oxidant?, without any supporting prior research as far as I can tell. It is not surprising that using food questionnaires they were able to "prove" their hypothesis. There is a lot of research to the contrary, and in the studies that actually measure blood serum levels of vitamins, vitamin C is the only vitamin that has been shown to increase life span (lower mortality). In this study of serum levels, low vitamin C was highly predictive of an early death! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14594788?dopt=Abstract

Now, it is true that there is apparently competition between glucose and vitamin C (ascorbate) for entry into cells, so there is an interaction. Both molecules utilize an insulin transport mechanism through the cell membrane. Dr. Ely believes that glucose generally wins this competition, meaning that high levels of glucose in the blood caused by diabetes can effectively crowd out the short-lived vitamin C (30 minute half life) from entering vitamin C-starved cells. The lack of vitamin C entering cells in diabetics helps to explaing many of the severe side effects of Diabetes - amputations, etc.

The cynic in me would believe that this research is designed more as propaganda to counter recent research in Texas/Oklahoma that found great benefit giving Type I diabetics vitamin C. http://normantranscript.com/local/x519047709/OU-researchers-stop-diabetes-damage-with-Vitamin-C

[Schigara]

Owen, wouldn't it be beneficial for this person to take Liposomal C. Am I right to assume the phospholipid liposomes would not have the same competition with glucose for entry into the cells?

Now, it is true that there is apparently competition between glucose and vitamin C (ascorbate) for entry into cells,

[m.hash]

She has type 2 diabetes which has been well controlled through diet using smith's protocol, but the minute she starts with vitamin c it goes up!!Nevertheless i have started her on Vitamin C again and am trying to determine her tolerance level, Am going to do the same with lysine, but when she reaches her tolerance level how will i know if its lysine or vitamin C causing diarrhea, as she is taking both at the same time.

Her C.t scan and MRI have determined she doesn't have cancer thus no need for the biopsy but she has too many fluids in her abdominal area which has bloated, i assume this is because of her severe heart failure.

She is consuming 600mg of coq10 by gnc divided into 2 doses followed by a teaspoon of olive oil since the past 3 months, but this has not made much of a difference and her ejection fraction is still 25%. Where am i going wrong with regards to her supplements. Is it lack of vitamin C due to which the coq10 is not having a significant effect on her heart.

[Ralph Lotz]

Vitamin C skews glucose readings on most meters.

To improve ejection fraction check out ubiquinol, L-carnitine, d-ribose and vitamin D.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

but when she reaches her tolerance level how will i know if its lysine or vitamin C causing diarrhea, as she is taking both at the same time.

Excellent advice in previous posts. To my knowledge, lysine does not cause diarrhea so concurrent use is not an issue, and we recommend a maximum of 6000 mg in any case. Vitamin C can be much higher, depending on tolerance, and might even reach 30,000 mg. In that case, you should consider 2 or 3 packets of Lypo-C (livonlabs.com) for her. But yes, vitamin C (and lysine) is the obvious missing factor in your regimen.

[m.hash]

Thank you every one for your advice and help.

I have read quite a bit about titrating on this forum and am now more aware of how to increase vitamin c intake and bowel tolerance. However i am still a bit confused about what Ralph said regarding limiting her fluid intake for a day and cutting down on vitamin c. Does this mean she cuts down on vitamin c when she reaches her tolerance level or to cut down on the amount of vitamin c she takes on the specific day her fluid intake is limited.

[ofonorow]

Ralph? You mean johnwen...

[m.hash]

sorry i made a mistake.

Yes i meant Johnwen

[J.Lilinoe]

What is she taking the vitamin C with? orange juice? something sweet? if so, then that is why her blood sugar levels are up.