Lone Atrial Fibrillation and Vit C Dosage - experiences

[ChristianW]

Thanks Owen for forwarding the insightful response of Dr. Levy and please express my appreciation to him, as he mentioned some things here, which I have not heard from the cardiologists I have consulted with over the years. I also understand, that his reply is somewhat generalized in regards to various forms of AF and not specifically tailored to my case. AF frequently occurs as a result of other heart diseases, but together with millions of others, I have been diagnosed with Lone Atrial Fibrillation (LAF), which occurs in an otherwise healthy heart.

... long term prognosis and response to interventions like vitamin C will be strongly affected by how large the left atrium is on M-mode ECHOcardiography. 2D ECHO is helpful as well if the M-mode is a suboptimal cut. When the left atrial dimension is greater than or equal to 4.0 cm, a solid reversion to normal sinus rhythm without properly dosed antiarrhythmic drugs is unlikely to occur. And when the left atrium is even significantly larger, the atrial fibrillation will simply become locked-in and chronic, regardless of what the patient does. ...

Just for clarification, my specific form of LAF is paroxysmal atrial fibrillation, with most episodes lasting a few hours initially a few times a year. Frequency of AF episodes has tended to increase over the years, but greatly improved with supplements including Vitamin C. Length of episodes is mostly predicted by the severity of the triggering virus infection, which is my main trigger. Heart is structurally normal and according to my cardiologist the heart is not enlarged in any way. (But I do not have the dimensions of the last echo-cardiogram accessible right now - I will find out, if LA its below 4.0 cm. My cardiologist never discussed left atrial dimension with me only LVEDD, which is normal at 5.0 cm and hasn't changed for 15 years.) Anyways I'm in sinus rhythm right now and on maintenance meds, so I wasn't primarily intending to using Vitamin C for effecting a cardioversion, but for the purpose of maintaining sinus rhythm.

...As a practical point, vitamin C would really only be useful in the very early stages of this process, along with the elimination of stimulants such as caffeine from the diet. If there is evidence of cardiomyopathy elsewhere in the heart, a program that will effectively eliminate the toxin loads, such as mercury, that appear to often be the underlying cause/major aggravating factor for the arrhythmia, as the myocardial levels of such toxins can be very high. Of course, such increased toxin loads in the myocardium would be expected to promote a chronic inflammatory process at the cellular level. ...[emphasis mine]

I have worked on eliminating all known triggers and dietary toxins. Interesting, that he mentions toxin load and especially mercury here in the context of arrhythmia. Though in my case there is no evidence of cardiomyopathy, it makes a lot of sense to me, that mercury would accumulate in the heart muscle and cause inflammation at the cellular level. I have currently no idea how bad my load of mercury is, but I intend to find out and to look into some form of dental revision to minimize toxic load. I don't have any amalgam fillings any more, but have had them in the past and I see other potential problems with bridges and root canals. Incidentally I had major dental repairs done during the year 1993 when my first episode of AF appeared. I believe that the dentist removed previous amalgams without any precautions. It reminds me of a testimonial I read here:

Mercury did terrible damage to my girlfriend's health; removal of her remaining amalgams improved her health ...
In 1982, she had amalgams removed for cosmetic reasons by a dentist who showed no special care in amalgam removal. ... 10 days later, she buckled over from severe heart pain, only the beginning of many severe health struggles, including nocturnal seizures, arrhythmia and multiple chemical sensitivity. It wasn't until 20 years later that she made the connection between the improper amalgam removal and her "countless" visits to doctors and hospitals for serious health problems. ... [emphasis mine]

Now, if I understand Dr. Levy correctly, he indicates, that Vitamin C is useful for atrial fibrillation (in combination with detoxification), as long as the left atrium is not enlarged yet. Since Dr. Levy did not specifically address lone atrial fibrillation, I am wondering, if cardiomypathy is the main symptom of a toxic load of mercury in the heart or could atrial fibrillation be caused by mercury in the absence of cardiomyopathy?

[scottbushey]

It still comes down to inflammation; Have your doctor test your CRP and get a vap test to rule to rule out the inflammation.

~If you take high enough dosing of Lypospheric VC and and Glutithione, theoretically, one can remove the toxins over time.

[ChristianW]

It still comes down to inflammation; Have your doctor test your CRP and get a vap test to rule to rule out the inflammation.
~If you take high enough dosing of Lypospheric VC and and Glutithione, theoretically, one can remove the toxins over time.

Scott, I agree about the inflammation issue, this is an important angle to explore. Apart from AF, I have asthma, allergic rhinitis and sometimes allergic skin reactions to the presence of dust (mites). All of these are inflammatory in nature, all have been adult onset.

Yet none of my CRP tests ever showed evidence of inflammation. Looking through some studies regarding this I found out, that the regular CRP test is not sensitive enough to show the kind of inflammation, which is obviously present with asthma. Thus it may not be sensitive enough to show low grade inflammation of the heart either. I would be interested what my result would be in the new high-sensitivity-CRP lab test used in the following study:

High sensitivity C-reactive protein in asthma
... Serum levels of the well-known inflammatory marker C-reactive protein (CRP) can be simply and inexpensively measured in order to assess systemic inflammation. However, standard assays for CRP, with a lower detection limit of 3–8 mg·L−1, lack the sensitivity required to determine levels of inflammation within the normal range Recently, high-sensitivity assays for CRP (hs-CRP) have become available in clinical laboratories. Measurement of serum hs-CRP levels has suggested the involvement of low-grade systemic inflammation in several disorders, such as cardiovascular disease and diabetes mellitus ...full article here

Any idea, if the high-sensitivity-CRP lab test is commonly available now? How is the VAP test related to inflammation?

[scottbushey]

Christian,
The HSCRP is available; ask your doc to order it. However, the VAP test is more accurate as studies now show; as well new school thinking is that the real culprit for inflammation is elevated Lp(a).

http://www.raysahelian.com/lipoprotein.html

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-vap-test.htm

I want to add: If you are taking anything to reduce the acid in your gut, i.e. a Proton Pump Inhibitor, this will greatly decrease the bioavailability of the VC you are dosing. Additionally, it is a fact that if you are on a statin, this will actually increase the Lp(a) in your arteries and deplete your CoQ10 stores (you should be supplementing CoQ10 if you are on a statin). *Statins are quackery and poison!

**I just added Resveratrol, Olive leaf extract and this to my regimen.

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Synergy-3000-Multi-Vitamin-Version-11

Olive leaf extract on inflammation: http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T166132.html http://www.lightparty.com/Health/OliveLeafExtract.html http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/5/946

Scott

[Lemonaid]

I've got the NSI Synergy 3000 as well as the NSI "NeuroPower".

I like the NeuroPower because it has 1 gram of L-Carnitine, 600 mg of ALA, 200 mg of Co-Q10 along with quite a few others along with good doses of vitamins/minerals for $30 for a 30 day supply.

I also use LEF Mix (I'm a member and stock up when they have sales) mixing dosages with the NSIs.

Although, I don't like how NSI uses Mag Oxide but otherwise they use decent forms (such as methylcobalmin for B12).

[ofonorow]

Scott, I agree about the inflammation issue, this is an important angle to explore. Apart from AF, I have asthma, allergic rhinitis and sometimes allergic skin reactions to the presence of dust (mites). All of these are inflammatory in nature, all have been adult onset.

Even if the "right" replacement dose of ascorbic acid doesn't cure your AF, these other symptoms indicate that you have been and probably are vitamin C deficient. And I happen to subscribe to Dr. Levy's theory, as proposed or identified in STOP AMERICA'S #! KILLER, (livonbooks.com), that inflammation is nature's way of providing vitamin C to the site of the injury or lesion. (White blood cells contain very high concentrations of vitamin C.) So you could attack the problem by stopping inflammation - which might deprive the body of vitamin C where it needs it, or by increasing vitamin C, and allowing the body to heal, causing the inflammation to recede on its own more naturally

And p.s., if mercury in the heart is the issue - why not add Lypo-GSH, and dare I say R-Alpha-Lipoic Acid, to your bowel tolerance vitamin C (plus Lypo-C)

[scottbushey]

Owen,
You must investigate Olive Leaf extract and it's anti-inflamatory properties. I began taking it and within three days began experiencing Herxheimer's reaction whereas, never got to that point even when taking the Lypo Glutathione. Plus, The olive leaf extract assists the uptake of VC.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T166132.html
http://www.lightparty.com/Health/OliveLeafExtract.html
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/5/946

[ofonorow]

Interesting.

The olive leaf extract assists the uptake of VC.

NSAIDS are also "antiinflammatory" too, that's all. This sounds like the right way to go - increase C.

[ChristianW]

I'll investigate the Olive Leaf extract, too - looks interesting.

I wonder how significant is Vitamin A in regards to inflammation and immunity? I haven't supplemented much (and maybe the wrong kind of) Vitamin A.

Thinking about your supplements.
...
The only basic Pauling recommendation that you are not following is the 25,000 iu of vitamin A daily.

I noticed this from Weston A. Price, too, who recommended 50,000+ IU from diet and fish-liver oil (and not beta-carotene) balanced with Vitamin D at about 10:1 or 5:1. There seems to be quite a bit of controversy here, as Mercola completely contradicted this, saying to only supplement Vitamin D. I'm still not clear about all the issues, but since looking into it, I find the Weston A. Price arguments more convincing.

So far I'm getting a fair bit from my diet, Fitday reported about 15,000 IU/day. Westonaprice Foundation say that beta-carotene is not efficiently converted, but my multivitamin and some of my diet only supply beta-carotene. Therefore I just started on Cod Liver Oil supplying about 12000 IU Vit A and 1200 IU Vit D / day (additional to the supplemental 7500 IU from beta-carotene and 2500 IU of Vitamin D3)

What form of Vitamin A do you primarily recommend?

[ofonorow]

I noticed this from Weston A. Price, too, who recommended 50,000+ IU from diet and fish-liver oil (and not beta-carotene) balanced with Vitamin D at about 10:1 or 5:1. There seems to be quite a bit of controversy here, as Mercola completely contradicted this, saying to only supplement Vitamin D. I'm still not clear about all the issues, but since looking into it, I find the Weston A. Price arguments more convincing.

I agree with your assessment, and it makes me wonder about Mercola's and Channel's (vitamin d council) background. There has been a conserted effort over time in the press to denigrate vitamin A. These stories have adversely affected the opinions of many well meaning people, and Weston Price has been one of the stalwarts protecting the truth. I interpret all the vitamin A debunking as a "protection effort" because vitamin A is apparently as effective against cancers (at least soft cancers, such as lymphoma and luekemia) as the only successful (and highly profitable) chemotherapy drugs. In other words, high vitamin A supplementation in cancer patients is a threat to these profits. I am also aware that Pauling's opinions on vitamin A come largely from his personal friend Roger J. Williams. Williams friend and assistant, Dr. Don Davis, wrote this great article on the "rampant" vitamin A toxicity problem: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/journal/mega2.1.html#DAVIS