Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#16  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:41 am

J. You are committing libel with the last post, so let me know if you want me to delete it. (Unfortunately, I know something about this! http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-court-of-appeals/1479059.html Actually, I may have to delete it to protect ourselves... )

Nothing so far has indicated Huggins harmed any patient, or that there were even any complaints.
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#17  Post by jknosplr » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:35 am

Matter of opinion if I am guilty of libel, I'm just repeating what the FDA found, and Huggins had his license revoked for, as read on a public web site., already available to the public. If it wasn't libel when printed then why would it be libel now? You asked for other documentation, didn't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Huggins

Your case was dismissed due to a loop hole in the publishing law where you & your inc, are not libel of what another posts on your web page.. I researched your case some time back prior to registering on the forum. But you knew what was being posted was not true concerning Barrett, I was led to believe by the posting of the complaint of this.
The articles contained several disparaging claims about Barrett, the gist of which was that he was a liar and a charlatan.   Barrett alleged that Intelisoft knew or had reason to know that the disparaging remarks in the articles were false and defamatory because “[o]ther webpages and articles that Fonorow and Intelisoft have posted to their websites have had false and defamatory material about Dr. Barrett in them, and this has been brought to their attention.”


I have a question for you, are you libel when you sit here and publish what you publish about registered trademark drugs. Not a third party who is registered on the forum but you, you own the WEB PAGE and your writing negative opinions on Registered trade mark drugs. Are you Libel??

Are you libel when you repeat verbatim what Linus Pauling published, and it does not perform as prescribed??

Would you be so quick to accuse me of libel if I were publishing negative opinion as you and others do, on your most hated adversary"BIG PHARMA" I think not!!

Lets get to the root of your comment, you don't like what I posted about Huggins. Why because he "practices" alternative medicine as you do or he did anyway. So as the phrase goes, birds of a feather, and that's fine, as long as all party's are honorable. He as far as the FDA is concerned was not operating in prescribe manner, I certainly hope that your not condoning this behavior.
Its the same example, as you say "big pharma cover ups" when the drug study ends due to insignificant results, or people are dieing from the study. If a party has a solid product one should not have to indulge in a carnival like atmosphere and say "we have the secret to Amalgam filling removal" That's a direct quote from his radio broadcast. It hurts the rest of the industry that is trying to get a foot hold and help people with a product not mainstream.

Pages 38 to 54 of complaint filed describes the care of 8 patients given by the Huggins group, I found other instances of the complaint on other web pages as to validate (casewatch aka quackbuster, aka Barrett) postings of same material.
http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/huggins/alj.pdf

I presumed this was an open forum, to publish ones discovery's whether pro or con, the registered members or non members as well as the publisher and moderator can decide.

Last thing sick people need is a scam, I detest it,..... why,.... I'm sick CVD and looking for the silver bullet as well!.

Lastly I don't intimidate well.

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#18  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:02 am

My answer regarding drugs is that truth is an absolute defense. Ditto regarding Tim Bolen's writing of Barrett. What I think you should be concerned about is:

he negated any validity of his claims by the use of a prop to further his agenda. Perhaps even to make the procedures more intricate and secretive than they actually were for $$$$$$ as usual. There also was other carnival like devices he employed to fleece victims of their $$$$$ while the victims hopelessly longed for a cure.


I am still waiting for the complaint letters from all of Hal Huggin's victims, or at least one.
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#19  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:09 am

By the way, I read as much of the complaint letter as I could stomach - up to the part where Intravenous Vitamin C was considered "criminal" and "dangerous." If this is the type of thing that persuades you, why are you here? (The harm was that the woman wasn't cured. How many FDA approved drugs kill people?)
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#20  Post by jknosplr » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:33 am

O
Pages 38 to 54 of complaint filed describes the care of 8 patients given by the Huggins group, I found other instances of the complaint on other web pages as to validate (casewatch aka quackbuster, aka Barrett) postings of same material.


http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/huggins/alj.pdf

The complaints from the victims are as said 38 to 54, there is no reason to believe this is bogus. The information came from the same site as I read the complaint concerning your case, its that information misconstrued also?? The names of the victims are not published for what ever reason...................privacy perhaps. If it was not true Huggins has had only 9 years to fight it and have it rescinded, and sue for libel.

he negated any validity of his claims by the use of a prop to further his agenda. Perhaps even to make the procedures more intricate and secretive than they actually were for $$$$$$ as usual. There also was other carnival like devices he employed to fleece victims of their $$$$$ while the victims hopelessly longed for a cure.




http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/huggins/alj.pdf

Page 24 line 110 500 questions that have little to do with mercury toxicity,
Why is a licensed dentist practicing ......Medicine? e.g diagnosing Multiple sclerosis????
Page 24 line 116 altering hospital blood tests.
Page 26 line 129 Using hair analysis
Page 29 line 139, 140 sub a,b,c,d the Bubble Operatory (Carnival Prop)
Page 50 line 217 Huggins intimidates and coerces patient
Page 59 line 5 abandonment of patients
page 59,60 Initial decision, expunges your charge of libel against me (apology accepted!!).

I'll stop here, I think you get the point that you already ...were aware of.

Why am i here?.....................I'll give you two answers, Freedom of choice to pursue a cure for a disease who which mainstream on several occasions said there was none. To Educated my self as much as I can to fight the same disease from as many say outside the box, I always say what box!
I learned about Huggins, Alagams and mercury toxicity from this site, I learned about the"amalgam meter" from another site. Point is you chose not to post both sides of the story, it had to be learned else where. You were aware of other information. This type of activity clouds the viable information that is posted concerning VC and other supplements that enhance the health of people. Another words try to post both and let the sick people decide.
I know that you would not condone any unscrupulous activity in any form, on the other hand you continue to maintain "he harmed no one". Harm can be defined in several different forms and you know that. It appears that its being covered up by the alternate medicine camp for what ever reason, perhaps the same reason "Big Pharma" scrubs their chalk board............posturing
You are quick to condemn the use of Statins, pick apart study's to fit your agenda, but not willing to post or a least elude to the positive side of any mainstream study, its always negative. Unless of course its a study on VC or another "placebo" which returns results friendly to your camp.
If this Forum intent is to help people then both sides good or bad, pro and con, aught to be made available. When there is 100% dissemination, the the party disseminating information sits in a better light than one who only publishes one side. If the product is as good as is advertised it will sell its self.

I enjoy this site I get a lot of good information concerning my health and options. I hope you will allow me to continue with my challenges though some may rub you and others wrong, I just want the truth so I may make a informed decision. So as you say to continue the "experiment" on myself with no hidden or unknown data . As stated, I have some skin in the game!

J
Last edited by jknosplr on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

freeform

Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#21  Post by freeform » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:51 pm

I am still waiting for the complaint letters from all of Hal Huggin's victims, or at least one.


This brought tears to my eyes, Patient AG page 47,48 are you waiting for a response from her Owen?

I am totally disgusted.

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#22  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:35 am

Very well, I read the case of A.G.

Tears?

Apparently A.G. was in the late stages of liver cancer and "given no other options". Apparently Dr. Huggins had helped her husband, (otherwise what logical reason would there be for her to even see him? ) Since her husband later complained (or the estate) one must assume the daughter who thought this was all nonsense brought the claims. This I can fully understand. However, there are always two sides to every story. A balanced account would include Huggin's answer to this complaint.

From my reading, they decided to give Huggin's treatments a try. Should he have taken on a terminal cancer patient? I'm sure the legal advice would have been "no way in heck." But that is not Dr. Huggin's nature. His natural inclination is to try an help people.

I don't find it surprising that A. G. died - she had terminal liver cancer. She was given no more options. (I do know that Dr. Huggins believes, (rightly or wrongly) that root canals are intricately tied to every case of cancer. (I know this because I heard him speak last summer at the mercury symposium.) And as we have discussed, this belief drives other alternative doctors nuts, (e.g. Dr. Gonzalez) who thinks Dr. Huggins error in this regard harms the reputation of alternative medicine.

I have never said that all alternative doctors are right in everything the believe or do, however, I still believe that on balance, Dr. Huggin's willingness to fight the system and advise people to remove their amalgams was right on! He was one of the first, and that he was attacked like this is not surprising.

Given the harm that environmental science proves comes from mercury (amalgams), e.g. mental confusion, irritability, short temper, memory loss, uncontrollable bursts of anger, tingling/numbness in the hands and feet, muscle spasms, sharp rectal and vaginal pains, carpel tunnel, sore throats, , urinary infections, ulcerated esophagus, reflux, irritable bowel, acne, varicose veins, hemorrhoids, tremors, overwhelming fatigue, slurred speech, neck and should pain, depression, anxiety attacks, low-self esteem, hearing problems, blurred vision, headaches, heart palpitation, irregular menstruation, and miscarriage.* (This list does not take into account the newer knowledge, i.e., that mercury is responsible for perhaps 90% of the dementia/Alzheimer's, etc., not to mention/restart the Autism debate,) I would argue that it is the modern dentist still willing to put mercury close to their patients brains who really harm their patients!

This case/complaint against Huggins, as I read it, was primarily based on the fact that Huggins used "other than approved" medical practices. It is a good read for people who want to understand why doctors don't know about vitamin C (especially after they find out about how valuable vitamin C is to a wide range of conditions.) Using something that is not approved can jeopardize your medical license. This is all about control, not harm to patients. (Consider as you read the Huggins complaint, all the harm that ordinary doctors do all the time, they just happen to be protected because they are using "approved" medical practices. As I was reading, it struck me, that other than using the unapproved procedures, the same case could be brought against any physician.)

By the way, according to what I read, Dr. Huggins agreed to work for nothing. That I can also believe.

*List of symptoms from Dr. Diane Meyer's Quest for Health letter published in the July, 2011 Townsend Letter. Dr. Myer was a regular dentist for 26 years and acquired all these symptoms. After self-diagnosed mercury poisoning, she rid her body of mercury and ALL these symptoms went away.
http://www.dentistryforthehealthconscious.com/home.jsp?c=Mercury+Poisoned&wiz=0&page=Mercury+Poisoned


p.s. to J. I certainly think the path to truth is to thoroughly examine all sides of an issue, which is what we try to do. I have no problem with a difference of opinion - especially your own opinion. My beef with the sites you seem to select for info are because they are so one-sided! I sided with Tim Bolen after learning that he was telling the truth. (Yes my case never got that far because Barrett is a poor lawyer and made stupid mistakes drawing up the case against me. if I am not mistaken, Barrett and the Quackbusters probably have the record for filing court cases, and if I am not mistaken, they have never prevailed in court against Tim Bolen. Surely, if Bolen had libeled Barrett, Barrett would have won by now (according to your logic.) If Barrett has won a case against Bolen, I stand corrected.

You, on the other hand, are not intimidated, but you are repeating comments from web sites who purpose it is to defame alternative medical doctors (in my opinion.) As I recognized what was going on ("They" using legal costs to "punish" alternative doctors), I admit that I might have tried to use their tactics in reverse against them, figuring that if they were going after me - no real harm done, at least they weren't attacking some alternative doctor. However, in court documents, Barrett claims to be a pauper. No money. Yet in my case, he "hired" one of the top legal firms in Chicago (after we almost turned the tables on him, and he would have had to pay my legal expenses.) Go figure. Logically, he couldn't have paid this firm. So who did? Or why did they do it pro bono?

So yes, Hal Huggins and Tim Bolen are two of my heros!
Owen R. Fonorow
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freeform

Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#23  Post by freeform » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:18 am

It is not much that gets my blood boiling these days - but you have succeeded.

I believe this is a registered charity committed to the research of Vitamin C. To condone Butcher Lyon dental practices is this part of your Mission Statement? I won't be making a donation anytime soon!

Tears, yes! its called empathy for that poor woman's plight, terminally ill, put through that pain in desperate search for a cure......... there is a word for people who live off the vulnerable.

I am out of this forum and hope your last days will be under the care of Hal Huggins.

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#24  Post by jknosplr » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:26 am

O
your still marginalizing his actions. Since when does paying $21,000.00 dollars constitute working for nothing?
Page 50 line 220.
Huggins extracted a total of nine teeth, if AG was terminal she would of been better off in a hospice facility rather than getting chewed up in his lab. Whether she consented or not, he has a moral obligation...........he did take a Hippocratic Oath, he knew she was terminal. The last time I read of that many teethe being extracted at once was at Auschwitz during WWII.
None of this topic has mercury toxicity on the table, we know its detrimental to health. Whether Huggins was one of the first, or the first to publish, pioneer, is not the point. He took advantage of people looking for help and then tries to justifie it, that is despicable.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, some where Huggins got corrupt, how or why only Huggins knows. Not only Alternative medicine but Mainstream medicine would do well to shun people who display this type of behavior, it can only due harm to excuse it, condone it or marginalize it!

What transpired between you Barrett and Bolen, is of no consequence to me. I got info from Barrett's site and others concerning Huggins. You seem irritated that it came from Barrett, so did your case. If you guys are gunning for each other so be it, I want to know the truth. Whether stated or not the case between you and Barrett leads one to believe that you was a surrogate for Bolen to get his writings published to attack Barrett. You both win. If the case was dismissed due to the way the law was written, to bad for Barrett. You had full knowledge what was being published on your site, just as you do here. That is something you must sleep with.


I didn't ask who your heroes are, but since you brought it up.......................you could keep better company!!

here are a few of mine http://www.knospler.com/Jacob/


J
Last edited by jknosplr on Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#25  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:27 am

Good bye freeform. You read one side of the story. The woman was given no more medical options, and no one (other than perhaps her husband) forced her to go to Hal Huggins. I would also remind you that since she was dead - she could not have contributed to this case report.
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#26  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:40 am

jknosplr wrote:O
your still marginalizing his actions. Since when does paying $21,000.00 dollars constitute working for nothing?
Page 50 line 220.

What do you think happened? If he offered to do it for nothing, and they wound up paying, it must have been because A.G. and husband were willing. This is America. You do get paid for work, especially professional work.

Now, do you want to start comparing what ordinary medical doctors/hospitals get for accepted procedures? Especially cancer providers?

Again, she was gone. This report (in my opinion) must be from an upset daughter who filed this case (unless there is life after death that includes writing case reports.)


Huggins extracted a total of nine teeth, if AG was terminal she would of been better off in a hospice facility rather than getting chewed up in his lab. Whether she consented or not, he has a moral obligation...........he did take a Hippocratic Oath, he knew she was terminal. The last time I read of that many teethe being extracted at once was at Auschwitz during WWII.


I respect your medical degree and medical opinion. Pretty fantastic without even knowing the women. (Are you married? I know my mother-in-law came home one day - all of her teeth extracted. Didn't even ask Dad-in-law. Her choice. Too many problems/expense.

My own wife has made similar rumblings lately. She'd just like to have all her teeth pulled.


None of this debate has mercury toxicity on the table, we know its detrimental to health. Whether Huggins was one of the first, or the first to publish, pioneer, is not the point. He took advantage of people looking for help and then tries to justifie it, that is despicable.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, some where Huggins got corrupt, how or why only Huggins knows. Alternative medicine would do well to shun people who display this type of behavior, it can only due harm to excuse it!

J


I beg to differ. If you are talking Hal Huggins - you are talking mercury. It is implied and you cannot separate, as are root canals. (Thanks to him, and others, it has become more accepted that amalgams aren't all that safe, something you seem willing to take for granted, but was considered heresay not to long ago..). What do your favorite web sites say about mercury safety anyway?

I submit that you are reacting to one-side cases, from a case created to smear Huggins, and by people who think like you do, that these things are nonsense, especially vitamin C. Those dastardly people. Giving the poor thing vitamin C. And I submit that you need to speak to people who have been to the Huggins clinic - and SWEAR by him, to get a balanced view, something desired as you say.
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#27  Post by jknosplr » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:14 pm

O
when you go out to eat.......and you leave the restaurant hungry do you complain about the meal?? YES you do!!

Had these 8 patients got what they paid for this would no be topic. But they did not, lets cut the crap Huggins did not deliver and he did hurt them in the process. In Mainstream Medicine when a doctor screws the pooch he is held accountable, (Huggins should not be?)that's why malpractice insurance is so high. Stop playing Huggins as the Victim, the victims was the patients, and who knows how many more?? This is not a smear campaign, unless your intent on making it one. Just maybe since he is an alternative medicine and he screw the pooch the media and mainstream ate him. But no more than a main streamer would of been ate. How many main streamers have lost their license to operate and never do we hear about them??? Where is Judge Owen for the defense,...... in their defense..........oh they are in big pharmas pocket or so you say.........screw em!!

I submit that you are reacting to one-side cases, from a case created to smear Huggins, and by people who think like you do, that these things are nonsense, especially vitamin C. Those dastardly people. Giving the poor thing vitamin C. And I submit that you need to speak to people who have been to the Huggins clinic - and SWEAR by him, to get a balanced view, something desired as you say.


Are you ranting? if so its time to come up for air!!!

{Yea take a trip to the old Hal Huggins treatment center and lets us know how many teeth you come home with!!! Go in with hemorrhoids and come out with lung cancer................hey pull six more teeth that aught to do it!!} I am not eluding to this at all!!

Get real man, The only thing being questioned here is some ones questionable actions and that's it. You must have issues with critiquing. Then you try to twist it into a smear campaign due to the origination of the data.

In "my medical opinion" you got something even Hal can't treat.

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#28  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:07 pm

Wow!? Have you thought that you may have mercury poisoning? I am serious, that could explain quite a bit.

Anyway, you can rant all you want, doesn't change the fact that you are spreading misinformation from highly biased quackbuster web site. With no personal knowledge. The definition of ignorance.

The reason mercury is relevant to the discussion is because the teeth in question probably had mercury (hey, I agree, if he pulled them without anesthesia, then he is like the Nazis). The choice may have been between taking the amalgams out - expensive and not very safe - versus pulling the teeth with the fillings. (Would that knowledge change your medical opinion?) You assume the worst. I look at it this way. Huggins was in the business of removing amalgams and root canals. For this he has helped a great many people, including me (albeit indirectly.)

Mainstream dentists were and still are in the business of placing amalgams and root canals. So yes, I think your vitriol is misdirected. (Now I know dentists are taught that amalgams are safe, and most do not intentionally harm people, but I believe we can now prove that they have done immeasurable harm.)

I learned what little I know about Dr. Huggins from Dr. Levy and Dr. Huggins book UNIFORMED CONSENT. In that book, Dr. Levy starts with his own personal story. He was then a board certified cardiologist and he was starting to have the symptoms of CVD (high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, etc.) and could not control it with his own methods. He was a patient or knew Hal Huggins, who told him that the dental work in his mouth was the root cause of the problem, and that if he had dental revisions, his CVD would resolve itself. If you have been reading this forum then you already know the story (and I recommend the book - it is excellent). Dr. Levy had the revisions, and his symptoms went away.

This made little sense to Dr. Levy so he began researching "heavy metal toxicity" and this research led him to vitamin C. I am grateful to Dr. Huggins, for many things, but getting Dr. Levy interested in vitamin C is one of the most important.

Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#29  Post by jknosplr » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:17 pm

O
I'll split the baby with ya, Huggins did do some good through the years, But he also did some unsavory things and used questionable techniques. If he is innocent of all complaints, this would now be a history lesson of Huggins vs Mainstream Medicine Conspiracy, the findings would be reversed, he would be writing a book........ the decision still stands.

Wikipedia is not a smear campaign on wheels,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Huggins

AG was Terminal what good would it do to yank out her teeth........................Please respond with a direct answer, just a straight answer, not a paragraph depicting how wonderful Huggins is and what he has done for humanity!!!

I had all my Amalgams removed, and I credit this forum for the knowledge I received to make a decision. But I wasn't terminal with cancer, placed in Bubble Operatory and stuck with a Amp-probe!!!

Wow!? Have you thought that you may have mercury poisoning? I am serious, that could explain quite a bit.
According to Huggins we all have it to some extent its now entrained in the environment. Perhaps that explains your irrational opinions and behaviors, ever give that a thought?...........probably not!!


Anyway, you can rant all you want, doesn't change the fact that you are spreading misinformation from highly biased quackbuster web site. With no personal knowledge. The definition of ignorance.
So now I'm ignorant......hmmmmm.....what happened to the Libel charge??


J

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Re: Do I really have to get rid of my root canal-filled teeth?

Post Number:#30  Post by Cobraman » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:03 pm

At the very least, taking money from desperate people under false pretenses is harmful. It appears that he did much more than that.


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