My experiment (ongoing) with Pauling therapy

[Ranne]

Hi all,

Female, mid-40s. Had a heart attack in Oct 2010, angioplasty showed 90% blockage in one artery, others were OK except for minor abnormalities. Blockage cleared to 0%, one bare-metal stent.

Due to my delay in going to hospital they expect some permanent damage; at the time of angio I had severe hypo/akinesis of parts of LV wall, but hopefully some is 'stunning' and may have improved since. Have an echo coming up Jan/Feb which should give me a better idea.

Prescribed Plavix, Lipitor, metoprolol, aspirin. I have felt fine since the angio. I was a smoker, quit after MI, had some relapses but currently not smoking.

Beginning early Dec I have been taking daily:

C (ascorbic acid, 50/50 mix of plain and time-release tabs), 24 grams (6 divided doses)
L-Lysine, 6 grams
L-Proline, 2 g (only added recently)

Co-Q10, 300-400 mg
Magnesium (citrate) 600-800 g
B-Complex, 2-3
K2 (MK-7), 100 mcg
Kelp (500 mcg iodine)
Fish Oil, EPA 400/DHA 200, 3-4 capsules
Vit D, 5000 IU
Melatonin, 3 mg
L-Carnitine, 2 g (added recently)
Alpha Lipoic Acid, 1500 mg in divided doses (added recently)

Also zinc, selenium, few other things. Ask if anything's unclear and I can check the bottles.

As I said I have felt fine since leaving the hospital. Having no problems with side effects from either drugs or supplements. Can exercise without problems, I'm in cardiac rehab to improve fitness level. Prior to my heart attack my risk factors were only smoking and high LDL and total cholesterol... I have always had low-normal blood pressure, no diabetes, no family history of CAD, am normal weight, always had low triglycerides, high HDL, good ratio. The drugs have brought my LDL and total down to where the doctors wanted them, I am hoping they will go lower still as I would like to get off the statin eventually.

Will post any developments.
Ranne

[Ranne]

Thought I'd mention I had a root canal around age 12 after breaking a tooth (which killed the root), so if they have anything to do with heart disease mine had a long time to do it.

[majkinetor]

Thx. You take pretty high doses of supplements.
I look forward to see if/how it improves your heath.

I don't think 1 root canal could be that problematic.
Don't forget to add dose of optimism.

[Ranne]

Yes I can see compliance becoming an issue with this sort of regimen; it's literally handfuls of pills all day. However, since I feel good I intend to keep it up and see how it goes. Since I don't have blockages right now, I'm hoping to prevent plaque recurring, and heal the damage to the arteries. Maybe slow down the aging process a bit.

I'm not too convinced about the link between root canals and heart disease myself; the studies I could find on Pubmed weren't as clear as, say, Weston Price made it sound... just thought it was interesting.

[VanCanada]

Ranne,

Have you ever had amalgam fillings?

If so, the ALA should be taken in much smaller amounts and taken every three hours, day and night, per Andrew Cutler's books.

Good luck.

[ofonorow]

Excellent regimen, but 1500 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid is about 900 higher than most alt doctors recommend (e.g .600 mg). I do not share VanCanada's concern about ALA, but I do wonder why you are taking that much?

Unless my eyes are failing, you are missing a key heart nutrient: vitamin E (and vitamin A) that Linus Pauling recommended in HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. You might consider one of the drink mixes. For example, the Tower Ascorsine-9 formula would provide the magnesium/creatine, carnitine, vitamins E/A, C/Lysine/Proline, etc. in a pleasant tasting drink mix. You can literally avoid hundreds of pills per month. And I worry about the "fillers" (junk) in all those pills you are now taking.

[Ranne]

Thank you for your interest guys!

Owen:

Nothing wrong with your eyes; I forgot to put E in the list. I do take it. 400 IU/day. I sometimes go to 800 IU but I'm having ongoing bruising problems already... the Plavix and the ASA combined make additional blood thinning stuff kind of iffy for me. I'm going to bleed out in about 30 seconds if I ever manage to cut myself making dinner.

I don't take Vit A because I think the intake in my diet is very high already, at least as beta and alpha carotene, practically all my carbs are in the form of yellow yams, sweet potatoes and squash, it's just what I like to eat.

I agree about fillers; I spend more if necessary to minimize them and avoid unnecessary ones by checking labels. The crap they put in pills to make them big and pretty can be ridiculous. But for the most part I think I'm getting benign quantities of colours, starches, waxes, etc... and frankly it all pales in comparison to the contaminant load I was taking in as a smoker so it's hard for me to get too alarmed... are there some fillers in particular you think are best avoided?

I'm resistant to all-in-one formulations right now -- drinks or otherwise -- because I'm tinkering with proportions of things as I go along and this is easier if I take them separately.

Re: ALA, see below.

VanCanada: Hi. I'm in Toronto area. You'll have to summarize Cutler's position for me as I'm already swamped with unread books. Studies done with alpha lipoic acid for various conditions have them getting larger doses than I take without ill effect or known toxicity. I thought 600 was more like the minimum dose that has still shown benefit for some conditions (like diabetic neuropathy), rather than a maximum. If you could point me to anything study-wise suggesting 1500 is dangerous I'd obviously like to check it out.

It is my understanding the ALA should help with chelating and facilitating elimination of mercury, not make it worse. No? Because of the very short half-life I take it every 3 hours or so (250mg); going by the effects on my urine the stuff runs right through me in a flash.

Yes, I have amalgam fillings. Also some other exposure to mercury in the past. I was thinking ALA might be the best thing to help that problem, not make it worse. (?) I will google around for what Cutler says unless you happen to have a handy link to good stuff all in one place.

Thanks again for the interest.

[VanCanada]

Thank you for your interest guys!

You're welcome.

I think I'm getting benign quantities of colours, starches, waxes, etc... and frankly it all pales in comparison to the contaminant load I was taking in as a smoker...

I never really considered there was such a thing as a benign quantity of artificial colours. And I don't assume it would make economic sense for them to add healthy naturally sourced colours. Going from cigarrettes to artificial colours is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, no

You'll have to summarize Cutler's position for me as I'm already swamped with unread books.

I understand. How much time do you have to spend, to save yourself from maybe doing permanent harm to yourself? (That's a serious question.)
Here are four good free starting points to learn more:

How people get poisoned:
http://onibasu.com/wiki/How_people_get_poisoned#Toxicity_exacerbated_by_chelating_while_having_mercury_fillings

http://www.noamalgam.com/
http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cutler_protocol
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/

Studies done with alpha lipoic acid for various conditions have them getting larger doses than I take without ill effect or known toxicity.

Do any of those studies last long enough for the ill effects to present themselves (let's say three months to six months)? If so, do any of the researchers hear about the ill effects? If so, do they associate those ill effects with the improper use of the alpha lipoic acid?

I thought 600 was more like the minimum dose that has still shown benefit for some conditions (like diabetic neuropathy), rather than a maximum.

Anyone who has amalgams fillings should not be taking any alpha lipoic acid (ALA). Zero. None.

If you could point me to anything study-wise suggesting 1500 is dangerous I'd obviously like to check it out.

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8417&p=23572#p23572

It is my understanding the ALA should help with chelating and facilitating elimination of mercury, not make it worse. No?

Only if (1) you safely remove your amalgam fillings and amalgam tattoos, (2) you wait at least 3 months, AND (3) you follow a safe ALA protocol - a low dose, frequent dose protocol as first espoused by Andrew Cutler.

Because of the very short half-life I take it every 3 hours or so (250mg)...

If you were someone who had no amalgam fillings I would say 'so far, so good', but do you wake up at night to dose every 3 hours at night also? And do you continue taking it every 3 hours day and night for at least three days straight?

Since you are someone who does have amalgam fillings I highly recommend you discontinue the use of alpha lipoic acid.

(ALA or any other substance one ingests will follow the laws of biochemisty and do what it will do to your brain, liver, kidneys and adrenal glands, regardless of one's intentions or current level of knowldege.)

I will google around for what Cutler says unless you happen to have a handy link to good stuff all in one place.

His books are the best starting point, but the links I gave above are perhaps the next best if you cannot get one or more of the books for some reason.
Good luck. Even amongst the very small membership here we have several reports of the possible effects from ALA use. (And also one prominent report of no effects too)

[ofonorow]

Lets start a new thread on the ALA please, or revisit an old thread, because the following advice is controversial to say the least, harms the reputation of anyone who holds that view, and has little or nothing to do with the Pauling therapy.

Anyone who has amalgams fillings should not be taking any alpha lipoic acid (ALA). Zero. None.

[VanCanada]

My information regarding amalgam fillings and alpha lipoic acid has little or nothing to do with the Pauling therapy.

It just might, however, have a lot to do with your past, current and future health and well-being.

BTW, great supplement regimen there. I look forward to any updates you can provide here in the years to come. I see great things

[Johnwen]

metoprolol

Tartrate or succinate???

B-Complex, 2-3

How Much B-1 (Thiamine) is there in the mix??

Metoprolol and Thiamine are contraindicated they react against each other. Even if taken hours apart!
I know to get your B's indiviually you'd have to take a bunch of pills but could help you.

Also DON'T STOPthe Metoprolol suddenly it can give you big problems even at low doses it can have a drastic effect on your heart.

Sounds like your on the right track!! Good luck to you!

[Ranne]

Johnwen:
metoprolol tartrate

The B1 is benfotiamine. Per capsule 33mg (recommended dose on bottle is 3/day, I take 2 or 3)

The doctors treating me know I take a B complex. And no I would not stop taking a prescription without asking them. Thanks.

VanCanada:
Thanks for the links, I will read, but as Owen suggested I will reply in another thread.

[majkinetor]

it's literally handfuls of pills all day

Since this equals to me to lot of fillers and while I don't claim they are poisonous to all people, there are certainly people who are allergic to some of them and some of them are also controversial (like Mg-Stearate or Silicon Dioxide).

So, I would strongly suggest to use powders as much as you can. For instance, you could mix Vitamin C, Lysine, Proline, Magnesium-Citrate powders. You can take Vitamin D as liquid (for instance those for kids are usually good, one drop equals usually 400 IU so you can take 3 pipettes/week to get around 50000IU) etc...

[Ranne]

majkinetor:
Hi. Yeah as I run out of things I try to replace them with better versions, but everything is a balance; how much extra money do I want to spend, time shopping, etc., to justify my perception of decrease of risk. You know? Staying open-minded, taking reasonable measures while not becoming paranoid... because it never ends, not in a modern society anyway. If it's not magnesium stearate it's light pollution or bisphenol A or the zillion other things nobody really KNOWS about... but I'm not dismissing what you say, just saying I expect to be ingesting fillers/colours with the level of supplements I take and though I try to reduce it, even the amount now is not at the moment a risk I perceive as very large compared to benefits of the supplements. At this time.

Yes I take D in drops, it's 1000 IU per, so very easy. For the other things, I will investigate powders, thanks.