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 Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage! 
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Post Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage!
Quote:
Dear Sally Snyder Jewell,
In November of 2009, following chest pains, I had any angiogram and was diagnosed with a 90% LAD blockage with recommendation to have an angioplasty. I did not like the idea of having an angioplasty and after looking on the internet I read about Linus Pauling and his therapy. I bought "Practicing Medicine without a license" and read that the therapy would probably not succeed with a blockage of 90%.

I therefore decided to take Serrapeptase, but I also took 3 or 4 grams of vitamin C per day. For eight months I felt fine without any chest pain; then in August last year the angina came back again, and after being admitted to hospital as an emergency at the beginning of September I had an angioplasty.

The 90% blockage had increased to 99% and I also had two blockages of 60%. I had felt fine since the angioplasty on the 6th. September and so on the 16th. October I started to take HeartTech with the hope that it would prevent any further increase in the blockages and also to prevent the possibility of having to have a heart bypass in the distant future. Towards the end of October I started to have angina pains, which I thought was caused by the very cold weather that we were having here. I therefore went to see my general practitioner and after the usual tests I was informed that my cholesterol level had fallen from 5.5. to 3.4, that is 212mg/dl to 132 mg/dl, from November 2009 to November 2010. However, my doctor recommended that I should see a consultant and have a stress test, which I did two weeks ago; following which it was recommended that I should have an angiogram.

I had the angiogram on Tuesday of this week, and in the space of four months since my angioplasty last September, one of my 60% blockages has INCREASED to 80%, the other a little less. My consultant says that the best option for me is to have a heart bypass! The period of this increase coincides with the period when I have been taking HeartTech. It therefore seems to me that although vitamin C alone has reduced my cholesterol, the Heart Tech, and probably the lysine, has increased the plaque in my arteries. I cannot continue to take HeartTech while I wait for a heart bypass because there is a possibility that it might block my arteries completely and cause a heart attack.

At the moment I think that I shall have to cancel my order for HeartTech, but before I do so I will be very interested to read your comments on my situation especially with regards to page 86 of "Practicing Medicine without a license": "binding inhibitors are almost always effective for reversing symptoms of advanced heart disease within 30 to 90 days." I have been taking HeartTech for 95 days.
Yours sincerely,
Dennis B.


The question is other than the angiogram - what symptoms are worse? The cholesterol number indicates to me that the "fire" is out regarding his heart disease. The only issue seems to be a specific reading of a 20% increase in blockage during the period on Heart Technology. If it were me, I would be tempted to increase the dosage, not stop the binding inhibitors! But that is me.

The key is always dosage, constrained by bowel tolerance. As Dr. Thomas Levy's book STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER taught me, a coronary bypass can be entirely appropriate and life saving in old, "unstable" plaques that have developed their own capillary system, etc. The anti-lpa mechanism would not be expected to be effective with these unstable plaques.

Now plaques in general are the bodies healing process, and grow as a result of injury to the artery. So that reported increase indicates to me that some other process is at work, and that the combined dosage of HT and vitamin C could not counteract. (Assuming that the number is even accurate. Why is the cholesterol so low if plaques are really growing? ) I can see no reason why the ingredients in HT would aggravate the artery causing a rapid growth in the plaque. But I do wonder what this person's Lp(a) is?

If this person has bowel tolerance issues, I would also add 1 or 2 packets of Livonlabs Lypo-C daily.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:56 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9204
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage!
Quote:
Sally Snyder Jewell,

Further to my e-mail of yesterday and in reply to your queries.

I have been taking two jars of HeartTech per month, two scoops each morning and two scoops each evening; which is six grams of vitamin C and lysine per day. In addition I have been taking a 1 gram capsule of vitamin C and a 500mg capsule of lysine per day; plus 200mg of tocotrienols per day.

I am not diabetic; I have never smoked, not even one cigarette; and I usually drink one or two glasses of red wine per week. There has been a significant increase to one of the blockages during the past four months, the period when I started taking Heart Tech, and this blockage is in a critical position as it effects all but one of the main arteries; therefore an angioplasty would probably be too dangerous and this is why my consultant says that a by-pass is the best option.

I can only think that instead of the lysine in the blood stream attracting the arterial plaque, the lysine strands in the plaque are attracting the lysine and lipoprotein(a) in the blood stream and thereby increasing the blockage. I have read that cholesterol levels increase before there is a massive drop, could this be happening to the plaque? But to still be
increasing after three months?

As I wrote yesterday I started taking HeartTech to prevent any further increase in plaque and to prevent a possible heart by-pass in the distant future, I feel very disappointed and depressed that it doesn`t seem to have had any effect and that I am now having to undergo a heart by-pass.

The one good aspect of this is that vitamin C reduces cholesterol without having to take statins. So I think I will continue to take vitamin C alone, perhaps with the tocotrienols.
Yours sincerely,
Dennis B.


About his theory that plaques attract lysine causing a build-up because it attracts more Lp(a) to the area. First a review, Lp(a) - a form of LDL cholesterol - which is "sticky", is the only form of cholesterol identified post-mortem in plaques, and this form of cholesterol with its lysine binding sites, sticks to lesions in the arterial wall. So yes, it does stick to strands of lysine.

Pauling held that lysine in the blood, by filling these areas that would otherwise attach to the arterial lesion (lysine receptors on the Lp(a) molecule), can be considered teflon agents and keep the Lp(a) from sticking and thus the plaque from growing.

So the feat here is to have more lysine at the site of the injury than in the blood? (Question, was his HT intake regular?)

I am trying to imagine lp(a) already in the plaque "attracting" lysine from the blood. These molecules might fill the receptor - but that would help prevent other lp(a) from joining the plaque. (I cannot imagine lysine itself growing more plaque, but it is exposed as the artery cracks - suffers a lesion.) If indeed his plaque growth has increased, it is in response to some injury, this would seem to indicate that he requires more, not less, Lp(a) binding inhibitors, e.g. vitamin C, lysine and proline in the blood. (Now as I must have mentioned, Dr. Levy's book illustrates that in some people, with old and established "unstable" plaques, by-pass can be the best option because of the risk of heart attack should a capillary burst.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:06 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage!
Ok I read these postings read Owens excellent advice walked away, re read it all, thought about it. Rereread it and here's my opinon!

It don't pass the smell test!!!! :oops:

Quote:
The 90% blockage had increased to 99% and I also had two blockages of 60%.


With a patient on the table with these kind of blockages either a stent would be placed or the patient would be wheeled into the OR for bypass. There is no way a person could function with this degree of blockage!!!
Quote:
I cannot continue to take HeartTech while I wait for a heart bypass because there is a possibility that it might block my arteries completely and cause a heart attack.


All Bs aside at 99% you are having a heart attack and your arteries are considered BLOCKED
Sorry but something ain't right here...

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:24 am
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Vitamin C Expert
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Post Re: Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage!
I suggest re-analyzing at different lab.

My uncle had this experience - 2 totally different results in 2 labs. I think it was 90% vs 30% blockage. The first doctor recommended operation, the 2nd one recommended nothing. That was 6 years ago and my uncle did nothing and is still alive.


Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:55 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9204
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Quitting PT, Therapy seems to have increased blockage!
Quote:
Sally..

further to my e-mails of last week and in reply to Owen`s comments.

The directions on a jar of HeartTech says: serving size 2 level scoops; then, amount per serving 3000mg of vitamin C, and 2800mg of lysine; that is 1500mg of vitamin C per scoop. I have been taking four scoops per day; which is 6000mg of vitamin C and 5600 of lysine. If my calculations are wrong then the directions on the jar should be changed to clarify the dosage. In addition I have been taking 1000mg of vitamin C and 500 mg of lysine per day in capsules. Therefore I have been taking 7000mgs of vitamin C and 6100 of lysine per day.


I weigh 140lbs, 63.63 kgs. This means that I have been taking 110mgs of vitamin C for every kilogram of my weight.

When I had the angioplasty for the 99% LAD blockage in September I also had other blockages: RCA 60%, Prox CX 50%, and LMCA 40%. My consultant cardiologist is Dr. Bala[..deleted...an]; and although his English is relatively good it is sometimes difficult to understand exactly what he means. When he was explaining the situation to me I thought that he was talking about the biggest blo ckage, the 60% RCA blockage, and that it had increased to 80%. However, I no w think that he was actually talking about the 40% LMCA blockage which had "increased significantly", I think to about 50%, but which he did not want to see increased to 80%. The RCA has also increased, but I do not know by how much. I am now waiting for Dr. B. to send his report to my general practioner then I will know precisely what are the blockages.

When I started to take HeartTech in October I was hoping that it would prevent any further increase in the blockages, and that it would therefore prevent a heart by-pass at some time in the future. The fact remains, irrespective of the amount of increase, that there has been an increase in two of my arteries, I do not know if there has been an increase in the third artery, during the period when I have been taking HeartTech. Therefore HeartTech has f ailed to fulfill my objectives, although with three blockages it was probabl y too much of an up-hill battle to achieve in three months.

I would be interested to know what percentage of HeartTech consumers have an increase in their blockages over a three month period, or has it only happened to me.

Finally, what are the benefits of taking HeartTech after having had a triple heart by-pass?

Yours sincerely,
D. B.



I would recommend Tower Cardio-Ade (no proline) for at least six months after a bypass. The replacement veins are weaker than arteries, and the Lp(a) plaque may be required to keep them strong enough to do the same job as an artery. Proline apparently lowers Lp(a), which is the reason for the the caution. Remember that in theory, the plaques are surrogates for low vitamin C and associated lack of collagen, so the body is protecting itself building these plaques. When they overshoot, the arteries can narrow, but the real issue is a clot forming in the narrow arteries, leading to heart attack.

I think he should study BOWEL TOLERANCE at orthomed.com/titrate.htm and try to determine his basic bowel tolerance, (soon to be a video on youtube.com ). What if his tolerance is 30,000 mg? His daily amount of vitamin C sounds large and is large for most people, but if he indeed has progressing heart disease, then he probably needs more, not less ascorbate. This means he needs to find out if he requires more C (because he metabolizes it faster than most people.)

p.s. I know from hist first name that he is male. Is 140 lbs correct??

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:39 am
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