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 VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!! 
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Two right retinal photos one taken 01/2009 and the second several weeks ago 12/2010 approx 23 months apart.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/ID%23JKNOSPLR_EYE-OD_aabru_1_16_2009.JPG

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/ID%23JKNOSPLR_EYE-OD_aadku_12_8_2010.JPG


Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:25 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Beautiful. Currently Dr. Bush says he does the analysis for free, however I am trying to talk him into charging some nominal professional fee for his time! (His fight with the British National Health Service has cost him dearly. his practice/license I believe) He is setting up a professional school for other optometrists, so that others will be experienced in scoring retinal images. (Not long ago I was hoping to complete a PhD in Computer Science and for my thesis create an AI program that does the retinal analysis.. Sigh)

Anyway, I just sent those links to Dr. Bush and we'll post his analysis. Here is his response from an earlier email about his CardioRetinometry service Â


Quote:
Say I am an individual wanting you to analyze and score my retinal images,

a) Wll you?


YES The first exam is free in the UK and anywhere else World wide. They pay the Optometrist, not me ever.

b) how much will it cost me?

NOTHING

c) what kind of image can you analyze

any from a 45 degree camera that is in good focus and exposure

d) should I ask my doctor for anything specific?

No NOTHING AT ALL

e) How long will it take?

From receipt of the image depends on workload 10 to 30 mins to report

f) Do I get a free 700+ Secrets.. (kidding)

After signing up for the 3 yr contract YES.. AND I already give your book to my registrants!

g) how much for an optional nutritional analysis?

Once you are registered it's part of the service. NOT UNTIL. Takes too long.



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Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:55 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
I am digesting this too... From Dr. Bush.

Quote:
Hi Owen,

Thank you very much indeed for taking the trouble to send me these images
which are particularly interesting and I hope they are not yours.


Both images are of excellent quality and are fairly easy to work with.

They would have been better still for quicker and easier evaluation had the fixation been the same for both.

But I am pleased to have been able to do what you asked without annotating the critical points of interest in the images which require closer attention.

However:

I must clarify some issues:

1.) The service that I provide is a personal and private one.
2.) I accept images from Optometrists for evaluation on the basis that the image rights belong to the Institute and are not for publication by others without permission.
3.) The Institute is not giving free training and instruction on the Internet.
4.) The Optometrist is at liberty to see the comments I make on the images if the individual wishes to show him them, but Optometrists have little or no experience and they have been taught wrongly about retinal atherosclerosis.

They therefore fail to understand the importance of the detail. It is simply not yet part of their training and, far worse, they will continue to be instructed wrongly in Optometry schools in the UK and the USA until I rewrite the section on retinal arteriolar and venular atheroma in the text book.

5.) I am not going to do that until my first paper is forced into a Reed Elsevier
Optometry journal, all of which are defending the false medical shibboleth (dogma)
that arterial disease is irreversible whilst refusing to publish Pauling-Rath theory on which Nutritional Preventive CardioRetinometry is founded, and without knowledge of which - the phenomenon would not have been discovered.

6.) Again, whilst the Optometrist sending the images can be asked by the patient to comment at any stage, none in the USA is, as yet, competent to do so.

7.) A second opinion on the images should be available from Dr. Vera Riches MD via
the Institute who will probably make a charge of £30 or more for each paired evaluation

8.) I am reasonably confident that Dr. Riches will always be happy to give an opinion on two sets of images having spent 3 full years studying the subject and acquiring the skill to evaluate the images. She expects to be the first to earn the DCardioRet, probably this year.


OPINION:

1. This patient is particularly vulnerable to glaucoma. I am not saying he/she has it.

2. The atherosclerosis in the image of 2009 is Grade 2.5+. That is not good at all. It is worse than average

3.) The image of two years later shows progression of atherogenesis which is now grade 3.0

I do not often see images at this stage. Ordinarily I would ask for a signed 'consent to treat' and waiver of liability. Medicine has little to offer except statins and their record is not good.

A recent review stated that they had proved better in secondary prevention than in primary prevention. The public appears to fail to understand that what is being said here is that one has to experience a first heart attack to perhaps receive a benefit in reduced risk of a second.


4.) The images could be from a male or female. They suggest that regression of the atherosclerosis might be accomplished before kidney or other serious damage occurs, but a thrombosis is inevitable if the condition continues to deteriorate and - in any case - I have seen thrombosis occur before this stage of arterial disease has been reached. I would not be surprised if this person has already had a coronary thrombosis.


In the USA I would write to the doctor (there is no cooperation at all in the UK) and advise continuous and vigorous Pauling therapy, suggested with some vessels almost completely blocked

I do not want to say more.

Feel free to publish this but I do not wish it to become expected of me.

If you wish to edit it, please allow me to see your text before publication.


Yours sincerely,

Sydney Bush


So we have a measure. (We don't know how bad things would have been if J. hadn't adopted vitamin C) but I would say based on this that it should be possible to determine improvement in the future. I know Dr. Bush has reported seeing positive improvement in less than a month on his nutritional program on the "soft" atheromas - which features sodium ascorbate, vitamin E, etc. If there are calcifications, and there undoubtedly are, then it can take considerably more time, but why not try to get this images at least monthly and I'll try to get a thumbs up (things are improving) or thumbs down (things are worsening) opinion from Dr. Bush.

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Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:44 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
2. The atherosclerosis in the image of 2009 is Grade 2.5+. That is not good at all. It is worse than average


Quote:
3.) The image of two years later shows progression of atherogenesis which is now grade 3.0


How is this this scale determined? i.e 1-5, 1-10, we now have two images of what eyes with advanced plaque deposits look like. I would like to see images from a member, or at least a well defined photo that shows no atherosclerosis as a reference. Perhaps a well defined photo such as I submitted for viewing could be marked up to depict the arteries that are in advanced stages of stenosis.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who requested retinal photos when at the optometrist office. The pics provided at Dr Bush web page are grainy not exactly clear since they have been scanned, and manipulated (resized) hence degraded (loss of resolution) some what for publishing.

Quote:
I know Dr. Bush has reported seeing positive improvement in less than a month on his nutritional program on the "soft" atheromas - which features sodium ascorbate, vitamin E, etc.


Should I now to switch sodium ascorbate vs ascorbic acid as the main ingredient of my protocol?


Last edited by jknosplr on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:23 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Results of the Iron panel

Iron and TIBC
Date Collected: 2/19/2011 7:21:00 AM
Test Description----------------Result-------------Range------------Units
Iron, Serum001339-----------------108------------40-155-----------ug/dL
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC)001347---------240-----------250-450----------ug/dL
UIBC001348------------------------132-----------150-375-----------ug/dL
Iron Saturation011362--------------45------------15-55-------------%
Ferritin, Serum004598--------------495------------30-400----------- ng/mL

Quote:
Phlebotomy helps a lot

I learned from the Red Cross this past Sunday that they will not accept any blood from a donor that has had any type of cardio work in the last 6 months. This puts my blood donation out to July.

As for the test, Serum Iron and Iron Saturation is normal. TIBC & UIBC is border line low to low. Since TIBC & UIBC, Transferrintranserin is produced by the liver and I have been on statins for a month this could explain the border line low Transferrintranserin, the liver is not producing as much. Thoughts????

The Ferritin is above the threshold but not exceedingly high i.e in the 1000 range, as some documentation differers on their opinion of high levels and low levels. Would the IP6 supplement be advisable to reduce the stored Iron? Will the IP6 lower the serum Iron & Saturation Iron to dangerously low levels (Iron Deficiency).

Could the VC be responsible for the high Ferritin readings, as VC increase the uptake of Iron?

Finally if VC enhances the uptake of Iron and IP6 lowers the levels, by taking the IP6, how will the IP6 and VC interact with each other, within the body???

Reference material:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/tibc/sample.html


Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:54 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
I'll ask Dr. Levy, as he keys on the one value you are "high" (ferritin)

Quote:
Could the VC be responsible for the high Ferritin readings, as VC increase the uptake of Iron?


We are all different, but I know the doctors in medical practice who contact me and administer IV/C believe thatC regulates/lowers ferritin. In my own case - I take a ton of vitamin C, eat a lot of red meat, and I am iron anemic (below normal). As we have said in the past, if you take vitamin C away from sources of iron, e.g. meats, there is no issue with uptake. So your high iron may be another indicator that your vitamin C intake is too low.

People take sodium ascorbate, usually to moderate gastro intestinal problems, but I believe that Cathcart was correct, in that "ascorbic acid" is the most powerful form of oral vitamin C, and almost all our testimonials are based on a Pauling therapy products that are based around ascorbic acid. But these Cardioretinometry results to me indicate a need for Lypo-C. Before I say more, I want to take the time to reread all your case reports. We have Bush's evidence that your disease is progressing, despite a strong Pauling therapy program. So the question is why? What is failing and what are you doing wrong? I'll get back on that.

As far as the reading - all medical tests are subject to interpretation and error, and I am not going to bother the good doctor - until you have tried something different, and have a new photo that can be used to gauge whether you have halted the problem, or are still regressing

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Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:42 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
Owen,

I saw the lab report, and everything now makes sense to me. That is an alarm level of iron in your body, as iron is really the final common denominator for a large amount, perhaps most, of the oxidative stress generated in the body, in this case in the arterial wall. The advice is still the same: phlebotomy, far infrared sauna, and IP6. Although traditional medicine would have you believe otherwise, these three measures can get the iron level down fairly quickly, perhaps as much as 100 ng/cc every 6-month period or so. I partake of all three measures myself, and my once-very-elevated ferritin is now at 28 ng/cc. If a large amount of research directly addressing is desired, then forget it. That is why it is not well-appreciated. But all the evidence is available in the literature, if you look long enough and hard enough.

This is why I repeat and emphasize: ferritin level, until a even better iron storage test comes about, should be a part of ALL routine blood testing, right along with CBC and biochemistry panel. But most docs don't even know what a ferritin level is or why it is important.

So, to recap,
1. Phlebotomy, 6 units annually (some center will take two units at one time, every 4 months)
2. Far infrared sauna, minimum of 3 times weekly, daily if possible; I stay in 30 minutes at 125 to 140 degrees, and I usually put out in excess of 700 cc sweat
3. IP6, 2 to 4 grams on an empty stomach

The sauna will waste magnesium and electrolytes; taking a broad spectrum vegetable/fruit powder ("greens") will keep things in balance.

Best regards,

Dr. Levy

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Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:26 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
With all respect and thanks (and that is very considerable!) to Dr Levy for his work, I think he is off base with this one. It is a common failing of people in general, and "experts" in particular, to get so involved with their viewpoint that they lose sight of the big picture. I think this is exactly like the "cholesterol hypothesis" in that a (possible) indicator of something(s) wrong is taken as the cause. Then a cure is attempted by manipulating the indicator. That might help if there is a secondary problem caused by the indicator, but it will not repair the original problem, and it may cause other secondary trouble - maybe worse than the primary. Just as lowering cholesterol "may" help CVD, but seems to possibly cause cancer and suicide. but NEVER cures the underlying trouble.

Iron is ubiquitous but not constant in food and water, therefore a properly functioning organism can and does control for all evolutionarily reasonable variation. If ferritin levels are high, then the control mechanism of the organism is askew, or the evaluation algorithm of the observer is. It might be necessary or desirable to "fix" it, but I'm pretty certain the design specs do not call for "bleeding". In some quarters, this is called Voodoo. And that is not to say that Voodoo itself is invalid either!

I am not now going to go off and learn about ferritin, I am trying to answer some leftover items I have implicitly promised on here, and I have about 50 pages open on my computer and a head full of details.

In jknosplr's case, there are a number of things that jump out at me.
Briefly, I first found JTA Ely through Owen's excellent article that was here:
<http://www.internetwks.com/owen>
when I first found it, probably on this site now.

/The Diabetic Double Whammy/
Reversing Diabetes Type II, Glucose-Ascorbate Antagonism, and their
Impact on Reversing Heart Disease

This will lead you to Thomas Smith's site, which I suggest you study well.
And following Ely, his "Unrecognized Pandemic "Subclinical"Diabetes of the Affluent Nations:
Causes, Cost and Prevention", here:Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1996; 11(2): 95-99.
And:
The Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine Vol. 11, 2nd Quarter 1996
How the Sick Get Sicker by Following Current Medical Protocol: The Example of Undiagnosed Magnesium Deficiency S. A. Rogers, M.D.

Yes, I am proposing that you fit Ely's "subclinical diabetes",and that it is a result of mucking with fats, shortage of magnesium, B vitamins, almost certainly iodine.
Go here and have fun!:
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/category/diseases.htm
This is the database of International Health News, possibly the most sane and comprehensive reporting on medical issues I've ever seen.

The Pauling therapy didn't work because it is not the rate limiting part of your health, certainly not now that you have been doing it. You have to find what is limiting and attack that, then the next thing, and etc.
I see no mention of Vitamin A, D, E and you say no K2, little of B vitamins, nothing about iodine, no magnesium, potassium. I'm willing to bet you are on salt restriction, which can lead to chloride deficiency, something I've never seen mentioned, but which I've been looking into lately.
Vit E see Wilfred E Shute
B vitamins/CoQ10 see Langsjoen from Ely
I'll hazard a guess that you are chronically dehydrated, since most people are, especially in winter, in places where houses, cars, beds are heated. I have to seriously disagree with Jonwen's explanation re sweating in winter. You might not get wet but you can easily lose more water in winter than summer, but you'll not know it. Blood thinners? Water is the blood thinner - it was an article every month or so in the magazines for truckers when I was doing that. Driving is especially dehydrating, since wind (or AC for modern folk!) carries off all the vapor, and the motion of the vehicle effectively causes panting - which kills your H20.
The muscle/ligament pain says magnesium deficiency to me, or calcium in the wrong places, which is a result of magnesium deficiency. I've had it in various forms, commonly from a lot of driving - used to drive a big truck, and am given to things like driving 1000 miles in a day. I've posted a piece on such pain in the Misc health and Rants section "Regarding muscle & joint pain and repair"

I will also say that I have twice had an "issue" with weight, probably 5 lbs in my case, but I didn't care for feeling flabbish. Once was when I was away from home for most of a couple of months, eating what appeared to be a "typical American diet" I felt horrid, showed clear multiple B vitamin deficiencies, and gained the 5 lbs of sloppy fat. Took about a month of my usual home feed & vitamins to fix. The second time was when my wife fell for a diet much like you describe - no skin chicken, vegetables, ground turkey etc. Felt awful and gained the same. I increased the Mg and iodine a bit and felt better, but still had the fat. Then I went back to my preferred home fries, sausage, butter, cheese and the fat went away immediately (a week) and I felt great. I eat a lot of eggs, onions, and a lot of potatoes, which I never peel, since the peel is where all the minerals are. I cook with butter, olive oil, coconut oil. I use no sugar nor substitutes, live on coffee with whole milk. Now living alone, I still use 2 gallons of milk or more per week and it all goes in my coffee. Lots of home grown blueberries and raspberries, frequently on cheesecake or in yoghurt. Just like the Weston Price people say. Don't have a Doctor, my house is at 62 degrees and my bedroom is usually around 40 in winter. If I don't eat my usual, I'll freeze to death. I can and this winter have shoveled snow all day. At 64 I look exactly like I did at 34, same weight, same pants, same belt - 5"7" 155lbs.

FRM


Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:47 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
gofanu - this is at least your second post that I began thinking of our archive as I was reading - keeping it around for posterity. You remind me of Weston-Price - are you his son by any chance? Wealth of information combined with intelligence. Anyway, thanks for reviewing K's case and rendering your opinion. The rate limiting idea is a brilliant perception and something I hope he thinks about.

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Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:45 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Thanks Owen.
I work hard at this, and try to not clutter things up with useless trivia.
My relationship to WP is that we are "of the same tribe". In this case, that is the tribe of Mechanics. I consider Doctors, and Dentists, as mechanics (today called "technicians", and missing a point), who happen to work on people. It's no different than any other complex system, save that it has the remarkable property of repairing itself, if you don't get in the way. The modus operandi of the technician is to observe the situation, draw upon prior (and possibly incorrect) knowledge, and do what seems appropriate. If prior knowledge/training/etc gives no answer, he's stuck - and you're sick or dead. The Mechanic observes a puzzling situation, and sets out to find out everything possible to answer the question "why does it do that, and how can I correct it?" This always includes the investigation of how "it" works "normally" and in other, differing, situations. Another statement of this is "thinking inside the box" = the technician and his imposed box, vs, the Mechanic who is perfectly happy to dismantle the box, so "thinks outside the box". Way too many Doctors are in fact technicians. W-P, Stone. Klenner, Pauling, Adelle Davis were Mechanics - note that I capitalize this as a formal title. It is said that Sir FH Royce, of Rolls-Royce, signed his name as "FH Royce - Mechanic", despite his fame, fortune, and knighthood - I've been thinking about the meaning of that since I was about 10.

Rate limiting is a fundamental scientific/engineering concept. It applies to everything, from how quickly your race car goes to why your faucet dribbles when it should gush. It is why ascorbic acid is a "weak" acid - the disassociation is rate limited by the concentration of the solution and the consequent re-association of the solutes. "Strong" acids are effectively not so limited, tending to disassociate more or less completely, although this can be changed by other things in the solution - that's called "buffering".
As an analytic tool, rate limiting is a useful concept. If something can be reasonably expected to be in short supply, then we can examine everything that might be rate limited by that deficiency, and if many of those systems are dysfunctional, we might suppose that that one item is in fact contributing to all the problems, and possibly predict other problems we hadn't thought of. So, Stone gave us reason to think that ascorbate was likely deficient in people, and Pauling used that to predict, find, and treat CVD. But, JK has used the Pauling therapy with poor result, so we look to other rate limiters, by means of other systemic indicators - in this case Ely et al give us the Mg/B6/fats/diabetes connection. And this too has been shown to be a likely deficiency in modern man. If that doesn't work, we could examine the self imposed vitamin D problem, or iodine, or dehydration, etc. All these can easily be shown to be reasonably likely, or to use the terminology of the field "biologically plausible".
To simplify finding the "cure" quickly, especially in life threatening situations, it is best to examine the total of "symptoms", as a means of figuring out what to try first. That's why I jumped on the muscle pain, diet, salt, and dehydration issues. Magnesium deficiency is believed to be a or the major cause of the no warning drop dead now heart attack, so I put that first, especially since a bit of "extra" Mg can't hurt.

FRM


Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:41 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Stimulating. The good Dr. Levy has responded, and I will let his words speak for themselves:

Quote:
Hello Owen,

I was determined to end my participation on this thread, since so much, if not all, of the advice seems to have been ignored. Regardless, I am more concerned about someone's health here rather than opinions on my advice. Gofanu is way off base. It's very interesting that he dismissed all the points about the relationship of elevated iron in an artery to atherosclerosis, while adding that he doesn't intend on wasting his time becoming educated on the ferritin blood test.


When you have rapidly progressive atherosclerosis and dental toxins have been largely eliminated (especially the root canals), an elevated ferritin level of 495 is quite astronomical for someone who does not have hemochromatosis, and it is almost certainly a major player if not the primary player in that particular case of rapid atherosclerosis evolution. Fenton chemistry, which generally requires iron, is the main reason oxidative stress is present and continues to be present in the arterial wall.


While nothing is for sure in biology and medicine, I believe the progression of atherosclerosis would markedly slow, if not stop completely, and even start reversing with the supplements being taken, if the ferritin level can be dropped below 30. Much slowing should occur if it can be dropped below 150.


Marathon athletes routinely exercise themselves to iron deficiency anemia due to the iron lost in the sweat. That recommendation was not some kind of idle comment. Same with the IP6.

OK, that's it. No more comments on this thread. I wish jknosplr and cobraman the best.

Best regards,

Dr. Levy



And what ever route jknosplr takes, I am looking forward to his next retinal image analysis by Dr. Bush. (Dr. Bush told me that in J.'s case, it doesn't make sense to see another image prior to 3 months (meaning he wouldn't expect a big change in less than that.)

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Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:25 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
gofanu
This is pretty much the protocol I been on for 2 plus years, I had my magnesium checked while in the hospital last month, don't have the reading but the nurse said it was normal. I started taking 2 gr.day IP-6 just before the results of the iron test was received as recommended by Levy. I'm waiting to see my cardiologist to confirm instituting Phlebotomy's will not compromise my well being due to the stents deployed end of Jan.

Quote:
I'm willing to bet you are on salt restriction
No salt restrictions use Sea salt only

Quote:
I'll hazard a guess that you are chronically dehydrated,
Not to my knowledge with the two quarts of water plus taken daily with the VC/lysine/proline/protocol, plus other liquids during course of the day.

At this time I'm concentrating on the iron overloading and reduction of same. If one makes to many adjustments to your equipment , you will lose sight of what adjustment accomplished what. Empirical data will be useless due to excessive variables introduced into the control.

J

20000-25000 mg VC
6000 mg lysine
6000 mg l-proline
2000 mg Niacin
1000 iu VE
1000 IU D3
1000 mg omega 3
200 mg Q10
100 mg Magnesium Citrate
B complex complete
100 mg grape seed extract
1000mg l-arginine


Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:43 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
I was determined to end my participation on this thread, since so much, if not all, of the advice seems to have been ignored. Regardless, I am more concerned about someone's health here rather than opinions on my advice. Gofanu is way off base. It's very interesting that he dismissed all the points about the relationship of elevated iron in an artery to atherosclerosis, while adding that he doesn't intend on wasting his time becoming educated on the ferritin blood test.


Doc

None of your advice has been ignored on this end, it did take some time to get it implemented. Although people do seemed concerned, have the best intentions, at times I do wonder if people completely interpret correctly exactly what a writer is trying to say. It could be the writers lack of communicating skills or the readers lack of comprehension. In my case at times, its both to some extent .

The one thing I did get from this thread is that after reading my posts you came up with high Ferritin Iron as a possible issue. How or why you identified is of not much concern to me. How I introduce a "rate limiter" into a piece of control logic is no concern to a Power Plant Operator. I got the test done it appears you nailed it on the head. Not saying that there may be other issues inhibiting the VC protocol from working but Iron levels was at the fore front immediately.

As stated in my earlier post I intend to focus on the Iron as to methodically remove one obstacle at a time, to me thats the logical progression that should be implemented. Jumping from one perceived fix to another without giving the first course of action time to mature, is as we call it in my business "shotgunning" and most of the time ends in complete failure.

I hope that you change your position on discontinuing input to this thread as your input and all input is valued by the writer. What I don't want is this to turn into a pissing match of egos ect, go off on a tangent that has no positive outcome no one gains from that. So far that has not happened to much, I do thank all for their anticipated cooperation in keeping this on track. will keep you posted as to my progress.

J


Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:27 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Since ferritin levels have so much to do w/ oxidative stress I thought I should share some info I came across. The use of milk thistle(active ingredient silymarin) chelates out iron to help bring down ferritin levels along w/ donating blood. My ferritin levels were at 35(fairly low) despite doing pauling therapy which is supposed to inc. ferritin levels prob. due to the fact that I take silymarin 2x day for liver health. Hope this helps J.


Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:29 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
While nothing is for sure in biology and medicine, I believe the progression of atherosclerosis would markedly slow, if not stop completely, and even start reversing with the supplements being taken, if the ferritin level can be dropped below 30. Much slowing should occur if it can be dropped below 150.

I need some help for optimal ferritin levels. Does the above mean everyone with artherosclerosis should target ferritin below 30 ng/ml?

LEF gives as optimal range 50-150 ng/ml. And some say for hormone optimization even as much 150 ng/ml in men might be needed.

Quote:
FERRITIN:

Ferritin is the most important measure of iron. Iron in the body is mostly in hemoglobin and myoglobin. However, iron is also used by every single cell in the body as part of many enzymes. Many of the enzymes which participate in the citric acid cycle to generate ATP - the basic energy storage unit in the body - in mitochondria have iron in their structure. Ferritin gives one an idea of how much iron is available to the rest of the body's cells for metabolic purposes.

Without iron, cells are significantly impaired in metabolic activity. They can't make enough ATP to do their activities. Thus, optimizing hormone, neurotransmitters and other signals doesn't work very well since they are only signals. They are signals to trigger cellular activities. But these activities cannot be done without ATP.

An optimum iron level as measured by Ferritin in men is about 150. In women, it is about 100-120. These are mid-range values. A ferritin of 75, in one study, was found to be the lower end of normal for senior citizens. They can be even develop iron-deficiency anemia at that level of iron.

Excessive iron is dangerous. It is highly oxidizing. It is destructive to tissues - causing cell death in the testes, ovaries, thyroid gland, liver, brain, etc. In testing Ferritin, I have surprisingly found a large number of patients, who have been treatment resistant, to have hemochromocytosis - a disease of excessive iron storage.

Until recently I avoided supplemental iron. However, since my hormones are very far from optimal and some are getting worse - while ferritin fell from 76 to 56 ng/ml during last year - I actually started to add a small dose to see if a slightly raised ferritin could help.

Am I misguided?


Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:01 am
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