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 VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!! 
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Thanks for the links. The first one is LPI's analysis of recent vitamin C studies, and while useful, especially in a journal of cardiology, it still irks me that they ignore Hickey/Roberts and get the "saturation" issue wrong.

Reading the second.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:00 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Three links to the films of 3 Caths I have had, 1st June 26th 2009, 2nd Feb 1st 2011, 3rd Feb 23rd 2011. I tried to get the best frames possible each camera angle slightly different. Doc indicated he seen some improvement on the last one taken.
The artery is the RCA one can observe the hour glass looking blockages lower 2 branch artery's. Lower branch artery narrowing half way down the branch. The second from bottom has narrowing just to the right of the branch root and narrowing half way down the branch also.
The 2009 film is the same as sent to Doc Levey some time back.
Question does any of our viewers see any improvement in the Feb 26th film? I ran it many times however I'm not the best person to make a decision due to the bias.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/06_26_2 ... _image.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/02_01_2 ... _image.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/02_23_2 ... _image.jpg

Added film from Sept 27th 2007 from Israel Hospital initial MI.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/09_27_2 ... _image.jpg


Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:06 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Dr. Bush explains why he is not going to be able to read these photos.

Quote:
Hi Owen

I work from 45 degree fundus fotos in full colour and (ideally) 1Mb. min. but often 750Kb is acceptable
Nothing else.
Best
Sydney

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed May 11, 2011 4:41 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
O
You are referring to the Retinal photos posted some time back correct?

If this is correct then why was this posted??

If I'm reading this correctly he analyzed my retinal photos on Feb 22 2010 ???

Quote:
I am digesting this too... From Dr. Bush.

Quote:
Hi Owen,

Thank you very much indeed for taking the trouble to send me these images
which are particularly interesting and I hope they are not yours.


Both images are of excellent quality and are fairly easy to work with.

They would have been better still for quicker and easier evaluation had the fixation been the same for both.

But I am pleased to have been able to do what you asked without annotating the critical points of interest in the images which require closer attention.



OPINION:

1. This patient is particularly vulnerable to glaucoma. I am not saying he/she has it.

2. The atherosclerosis in the image of 2009 is Grade 2.5+. That is not good at all. It is worse than average

3.) The image of two years later shows progression of atherogenesis which is now grade 3.0

I do not often see images at this stage. Ordinarily I would ask for a signed 'consent to treat' and waiver of liability. Medicine has little to offer except statins and their record is not good.

A recent review stated that they had proved better in secondary prevention than in primary prevention. The public appears to fail to understand that what is being said here is that one has to experience a first heart attack to perhaps receive a benefit in reduced risk of a second.


4.) The images could be from a male or female. They suggest that regression of the atherosclerosis might be accomplished before kidney or other serious damage occurs, but a thrombosis is inevitable if the condition continues to deteriorate and - in any case - I have seen thrombosis occur before this stage of arterial disease has been reached. I would not be surprised if this person has already had a coronary thrombosis.


In the USA I would write to the doctor (there is no cooperation at all in the UK) and advise continuous and vigorous Pauling therapy, suggested with some vessels almost completely blocked

I do not want to say more.

Feel free to publish this but I do not wish it to become expected of me.

If you wish to edit it, please allow me to see your text before publication.


Yours sincerely,

Sydney Bush


So we have a measure. (We don't know how bad things would have been if J. hadn't adopted vitamin C) but I would say based on this that it should be possible to determine improvement in the future. I know Dr. Bush has reported seeing positive improvement in less than a month on his nutritional program on the "soft" atheromas - which features sodium ascorbate, vitamin E, etc. If there are calcifications, and there undoubtedly are, then it can take considerably more time, but why not try to get this images at least monthly and I'll try to get a thumbs up (things are improving) or thumbs down (things are worsening) opinion from Dr. Bush.


jk


Sun May 15, 2011 4:57 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/06_26_2 ... _image.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/02_01_2 ... _image.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/02_23_2 ... _image.jpg

Added film from Sept 27th 2007 from Israel Hospital initial MI.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/09_27_2 ... _image.jpg



You posted the above, and I asked Dr. Bush to take a look - and that was his response.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon May 16, 2011 2:46 pm
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Post Dr. Joe Prendergast's protocol for clearing arteries
jknosplr wrote:
As of 03/01/211

20000-25000 mg VC/day 14 lbs per year...............you do the math
6000 mg lysine/day
6000 mg l-proline/day
1000 mg Niacin/day
1000 iu VE/day
1000 IU D3/day
1000 mg omega 3/day
200 mg Q10/day
100 mg Magnesium Citrate/day
B complex complete/day
100 mg grape seed extract/day
1000mg l-arginine/day
added to protocol
100mcg vit K/day
10000 iu Vit A/day
2gr IP6 and Inositol/day

Your arginine and Vitamin D-3 intake are a lot less than Prendergast's recommendation. I'm not sure how your B complex would measure up to Prendergast's recommendations for benfotiamine. And I don't see L-Citrulline listed at all in your list. These points might be food for thought... He DOES have a good track record in the areas of CVD and diabetes... All the best to you.

Dr. Joe Prendergast, the Arginine and Vitamin D doctor
(These Dave Stouder radio shows are archived on the internet as freely downloadable mp3 files.)

(a) posted to website on May 2, 2007
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/drjoe2.mp3


(b) June 6, 2007
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/L-Arg-VitD.mp3


(c) March 9, 2008
http://www.thehealthwarrior.net/mp3/THW-3-09-08.mp3


(d) July 20, 2008
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/tvs7-17-08se.mp3


(e) Nov. 9, 2008 (3.3 MB)
http://www.thehealthwarrior.net/mp3/THW-11-09-08.mp3


(f) Feb. 23, 2009
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/tvs2-18-09a.mp3

- At the 24th minute mark, Q: "Are you able to reverse plaque?" Dr. Joe: "That's right..."


(g) March 17, 2009
http://www.thehealthwarrior.net/mp3/THW-3-17-09.mp3


(h) August 3, 2009
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/tvs7-30-09b.mp3

- The discussion of Vitamin D3 for heart health starts at the 48th minute mark.
- Dr. Joe Prendergast won an award because 100% of Dr. Prendergast's patients have avoided strokes and heart attacks over the course of his career.
- In this program they discuss using Vitamin D3, L-Arginine and Citrulline to avoid strokes and heart attacks.


(i) August 8, 2010
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/tvs7-21-10.mp3
- "He has changed our understanding of Vitamin D-3, L-Arginine, and benfotiamine."


(j) October 17, 2010
http://www.thevitaminshelf.net/audio/tvs10-14-10.mp3

----------------
The ten radio shows listed above describe some of the common protocols that Dr. Prendergast uses with the patients who see him. He often has new patients take fifty thousand IU's vitamin D-3 daily for thirty to sixty days, then he tests their blood levels. Then they will reduce their daily intake to between five and twenty thousand IU's daily to maintain a target blood level of between "100 and 200" (I'm pretty sure he's talking about ng/mL although he did not specify). In the March 17, 2009 show he mentions if patients remain on a high intake for more than 200 days that their blood levels will peak at that around that time and then actually begin to decline until about day 365.

Dr. Prendergast's contact info is as follows: (I have no relationship with him at all. I include the following in case it might be helpful. If the moderator deems this to be spam I will gladly remove the following. Be well y'all.)

Endocrine Metabolic Medical Center
350 Cambridge Avenue, Suite 250
Palo Alto, CA 94306-1575
Telephone: (650) 566-9810
Fax: (650) 566-9825

email: office@endocrinemetabolic.com
website: http://www.endocrinemetabolic.com/


Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:55 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Thanks for your time compiling this, will look into it.

NOTE: since taking Simvastatin for the last six months I have noticed that my BT has appeared to increase.
I was experiencing much gas and occasional bouts of diarrhea within two to three hours after finishing my 1st 10gr dose in the AM, It appears to have diminished . I am having the same results with the second does in the PM. There is no change in any of my supplement intake, Simvastatin at nigh before bed since MI Feb 2011.

Anybody have a theory on this??


Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:03 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
Anybody have a theory on this??


Your experiment is showing that the drug is creating an increased requirement (higher bowel tolerance) for vitamin C.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:31 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
If the drug is increasing the VC absorption, is more VC being transported to the needed areas or less? BT indicates VC pass through or non usage, saturation......correct?

To your knowledge has this ever been experienced before while using VC and a statin??

JK


Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:20 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
jknosplr wrote:
If the drug is increasing the VC absorption, is more VC being transported to the needed areas or less? BT indicates VC pass through or non usage, saturation......correct?

Given your description of the "only thing you have changed" then it is correct to assume that the drug is creating a higher requirement for vitamin C. And yes, it thus follows that more C is probably being absorbed. As far as reaching the "needed areas" that is unknown, although the drug may be creating other "needed" areas. Review orthomed.com/titrate.htm Bowel tolerance generally increases with the severity of the disease (e.g. stress). You should monitor how persistent this effect is. Perhaps you unknowingly contracted a virus?

Quote:
To your knowledge has this ever been experienced before while using VC and a statin??

JK


Good question, and I don't know. (Not many people here are as brave as you to admit they are using statins.) That is a question for a statin and vitamin C user.

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Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:57 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Hey jknosplr if you're reading this,
Noticed you haven't been posting for a while... hope everything is OK.


Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:53 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Ranne..... thanks for the thought, yea all is well actually doing better than before, just absorbing the posts and keeping my mouth shut.
My last VAP done 08/15/2011 although I been cheating using statins all the numbers are good according to the doc, according to the people here they are probably no good. But I'm back to pumping iron and daily exercise.
As I said in the past what ever works for who is the cure. Whether it comes out of a grain of rice or out of a orange is no concern to me as long as it works.

Still using the VC/lysine protocol same dose as posted in the past no change in any thing.

08/15/2011
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/VAP_08_15_2011_1.pdf

12/30/2010
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3608681/vap_%212_30_2010_1.jpg


Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:29 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
That's good to hear, glad you are well. My doctors like my numbers also (HDL is higher than LDL!) but I take a statin too. I think exercise is really critical, congrats on getting back into it... I tend to slack off at times.


Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:06 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
jknosplr,

Do you, by any chance, use after-shave, shampoos, hair conditioners, skin care products, toothpastes, or other products that contain rubbing alcohol? (also called isopropyl alcohol)

In the Hulda Clark DVD 'The Cure' (1999)(starting at the 27th minute, 36th second mark) she says
Quote:
(Isopropyl alcohol) also combines with our vitamin C.

Isopropylidene ascorbate

So perhaps, and this of course should get some good biochemical attention from regular biochemistry, perhaps isopropyl alcohol depletes your system of ascorbic acid, vitamin C.


Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:41 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
old spice and crest, other wise my teeth would be rotten and inflammation from gum disease would be causing heart disease. As far as old spice most of my adult life, not swimming in it but use it on occasion.


Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:36 am
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