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 VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!! 
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Interesting theory. You make some good points, but J was still eating cold water fish. He was prob. still getting adequate fat intake. This is prob as good a theory as anything I could come up with.


Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:35 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Quote:
these mice are an unusual strain and may be unsuitable as a model for humans.


Due to genetic mapping some humans may be the exception to the rule also. I'm thinking that each case is unique to its self, i.e each human is its own chemistry set. When an predefined age is reached, a mapped genetic switch is turned on and the dieing process begins. One may prolong it by the hitting the correct concoction of supplemental intake but the hand writing is on the wall.

Saturated fat intake has increased some but for the most part I'm maintaining my regiment for the last three years. With the exception of taking statins, thinners, and BP meds. Doc indicated that statins will help calcify the plaques and in some cases reduce them, turn off the liver production of excessive cholesterol (tribal knowledge). Calcification is better than ruptures in my book.

Another though I had is the VC regiment may not stop the plaque growth once it starts but no new lesions would be formed after a time period of the being on the VC??. Reason I say this is during the Catheterization and placement of the stent in the Ramus artery no new lesions were noted that he could visually confirm in any of other artery's. There was one other plaque approx same age as the ruptured one which he did not touch due to insurance restrictions(obama health care that's unconstitutional in its finest hour) but no visibly new lesions, but then again only time will tell. As Fred Sanford says "its the big one!!" then its to late.

NOTE: The two lesions noted were present back in 06/26/2009, he indicated that they were insignificant at the time. They matured to be significant.
So who knows???

Thanks for the input Van


Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:26 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
If what you say is true you might want to consider iv chelation therapy to rid yourself of the plaques. Some claim it does miraculous things and there are some favorable studies. I am going this route.
jknosplr wrote:
Quote:
these mice are an unusual strain and may be unsuitable as a model for humans.


Due to genetic mapping some humans may be the exception to the rule also. I'm thinking that each case is unique to its self, i.e each human is its own chemistry set. When an predefined age is reached, a mapped genetic switch is turned on and the dieing process begins. One may prolong it by the hitting the correct concoction of supplemental intake but the hand writing is on the wall.

Saturated fat intake has increased some but for the most part I'm maintaining my regiment for the last three years. With the exception of taking statins, thinners, and BP meds. Doc indicated that statins will help calcify the plaques and in some cases reduce them, turn off the liver production of excessive cholesterol (tribal knowledge). Calcification is better than ruptures in my book.

Another though I had is the VC regiment may not stop the plaque growth once it starts but no new lesions would be formed after a time period of the being on the VC??. Reason I say this is during the Catheterization and placement of the stent in the Ramus artery no new lesions were noted that he could visually confirm in any of other artery's. There was one other plaque approx same age as the ruptured one which he did not touch due to insurance restrictions(obama health care that's unconstitutional in its finest hour) but no visibly new lesions, but then again only time will tell. As Fred Sanford says "its the big one!!" then its to late.

NOTE: The two lesions noted were present back in 06/26/2009, he indicated that they were insignificant at the time. They matured to be significant.
So who knows???

Thanks for the input Van


Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:31 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
J. First let me say that Dr. Levy has been following this thread, and is somewhat distressed that it is going off topic and that his advice on ferritin levels has been ignored, let me simply quote the email:

Quote:
I am a bit perplexed that nobody is paying attention to the information on ferritin levels. If those levels are elevated and they don't take the measures I mentioned, everything else they do will be far less impactful on their CAD progression.


Now, the question of fat-free/veg. diet as a treatment/cause for heart disease deserves its own thread, as we haven't really discussed this for years. So I will create a new topic based on 123xyz's post. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8970

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Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:45 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
O
I have an appointment with the cardiologist on 3rd march 2011, I will request a Ferritin (iron Tox) test then along with the standard blood work. I will request a standard Cholesterol test as the VAP test measurements are some what in question.

Thoughts?


Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:56 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
I can get one through health check are these the desired tests?

Serum Iron, Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC), Transferrin Saturation and Ferritin.


Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:58 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
jknosplr wrote:
O
I have an appointment with the cardiologist on 3rd march 2011, I will request a Ferritin (iron Tox) test then along with the standard blood work. I will request a standard Cholesterol test as the VAP test measurements are some what in question.

Thoughts?

J, was there a difference for you in the 2 types of cholesterol tests?


Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:52 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8841

The difference between the standard total and the VAP total is approx 40-50ml/dl. the board is the first place I heard of the VAP so I had 2 done, both Vaps totals came back higher than the standard. I called Lab Corp some time back and all I got was they were run in two different labs. If that the case than theres a calibration/deviation error that needs to be addressed not only at lab corp but Quest and any other labs. I could understand a 5-10 mg/dl difference but not 40-50 thats crazy, how do you treat for that? There are plenty of variables to go around, we need not have to question the lipid panel accuracy also! JMO


Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:10 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
O
Are there any current studies that confirm high ferritin levels are a contributing factor to CVD?

All I have found are studies from the circa 2000 that indicate one has nothing to do with the other, and or not enough data/studies has been collected/completed to prove the hypothesis..
Example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023623


Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:01 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
I have heard recently that high iron(ferritin) levels contribute to heart disease. In fact, I heard it again last week at my osteopath office. There is no good way of reducing it except donating blood. You can donate once every 56 days. I was tested for this, but haven't gotten the result back yet.
jknosplr wrote:
O
Are there any current studies that confirm high ferritin levels are a contributing factor to CVD?

All I have found are studies from the circa 2000 that indicate one has nothing to do with the other, and or not enough data/studies has been collected/completed to prove the hypothesis..
Example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023623



Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:49 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
I will be communicating with Dr. Levy (soon and I'll ask him) or email him, but here is what I know in the meantime. I believe that Bill Sardi has written a book about iron and CVD, and this is a book that Ralph has praised here. Also, Bill Sardi/Ralph recommend IP6 (as I noticed Dr. Levy also did) to help the body "chelate" iron. And Dr. Levy has been working on another book and I would guess that his current research has raised his concerns about iron. I'll post whatever I get on this with Dr. Levy - and include what tests/numbers he would be looking for.

Anectodally, I am iron anemic. (As his my half brother). I mention this because a) I take a ton of vitamin C, b) I eat a lot of red meat, c) I have recent medical evidence that I am entirely free of cardiovascular disease. One would think, because of a and b, that my iron levels would be high. (Supposedly vitamin C enhances the uptake of iron in the digestive tract.) Presumably Cathcart and others were right in that vitamin C "regulates" ferritin, and is also involved in the "chelation" of iron out of the blood.) I do not take IP6.

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Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:19 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Dr. Levy says the test he recommends is ferritin, and I will repost his original post with the numbers to be concerned with. He pointed out that in his book STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER has chapters on iron and copper. He also suggested that I try a Pubmed search for "ferritin and heart disease".

Search "Iron and heart disease" Results: 1 to 20 of 2706
Search "ferritin and heart disease" Results: 1 to 20 of 573
Search "Ferritin" Results: 1 to 20 of 21295

And one article I picked at random
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21128934
Eur J Clin Invest. 2010 Dec 3. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2362.2010.02429.x. [Epub ahead of print]
High risk of cardiovascular disease in iron overload patients.

Meroño T, Rosso LG, Sorroche P, Boero L, Arbelbide J, Brites F.

Laboratory of Lipids and Lipoproteins, Department of Clinical Biochemistry, INFIBIOC, School of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, University of Buenos Aires, CONICET Central Laboratory, Hospital Italiano de Buenos Aires Haematology Service, Hospital Italiano de Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Quote:
Iron is a critical risk factor for CAD. Ferritin levels should be routinely checked. If they are greater than 25 ng/ml, I believe they should be vigorously treated. Above 400 ng/ml (still considered by some labs to be at the upper range of normal), consideration should be given to prescription chelation.

Phlebotomy helps a lot. It's a great idea to give as much blood as they will allow, which is usually 7 to 8 units annually. A far infrared sauna sweats outs a lot of iron, amazingly enough. Inositol hexaphosphate (IP6, phytate, phytic acid) is a great supplement. It avidly binds calcium, iron, and other mineral cations. This is best taken as 1 to 3 grams on a empty stomach daily. Great to take first thing in the morning or when you get up in the middle of the night to urinate. When taken with food, it just binds with a lot of the minerals in the food.

My review of the literature tells me that you are healthiest when your ferritin (storage form of iron) is as low as you can make it without making yourself anemic as well.

Dr. Levy

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Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:59 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
ofonorow wrote:
Now, the question of fat-free/veg. diet as a treatment/cause for heart disease deserves its own thread, as we haven't really discussed this for years. So I will create a new topic based on 123xyz's post. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8970


The main objective here is to minimize the likelihood of future heart attacks. Here are some additional things to consider.

Esselstyn's study is worth learning about, after which one can make an informed decision concerning Esselstyn's protocol in anyone's treatment plan. There may be elements of his protocol that would be unacceptable to some but his overall study outcome was really quite remarkable. He has a website that is linked in the new topic cited above. Esselstyn argues that his protocol will stabilize or reduce the soft plaques which are the most likely to rupture. This is a very bold claim but he has evidence which he asserts proves the claim.

Taking IV phosphatydlcholine [Plaquex] has worked for some in dealing with the soft plaques. http://www.plaquex.net/index2.htm

For dealing with the mature plaques, consider EECP. This is a therapy that has been proven to encourage the growth of collateral arteries that bypass the major blockages. This, among other things, reduces the risk that the blood shortage to the heart would be sufficient to trigger a heart attack in the event that the major blockage suddenly became 100%, due to a clot, for example. It is possible, over time, to grow enough collaterals to adequately service the heart muscle even in the presence of a permanent 100% blockage, although the service will not be as effective as the original unblocked artery. EECP also increases exercise capacity. http://www.vasomedical.com/patients.php


Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:56 pm
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
Strikes me that J. does not have to guess. Dr. Sydney Bush provides a service whereby he analyzes retinal images taken by eye examiners. Bush can provide J. with a score that indicates his overall cardiovascular disease status, and subsequent images can be used to gauge the effectiveness of any diet or supplement (or drug) regimen. Either his retinal arteries will get worse (along with the rest of his arteries), they will remain unchanged, or they will improve, as Dr. Bush has discovered is possible with high dosage vitamin C and other nutrients.

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Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:36 am
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Post Re: VC....... not exacty the results I was looking for!!!
O
I just so happen to have the retinal photos, a set from a month ago and a set approx two years ago. I got the first set after reading Dr Bush theory on "the eye window to the heart"

Where could I send them and or should I post them with links?

J


Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:34 am
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