Johnwen - any thoughts on Catheter Ablation for AFIB?

[ofonorow]

The fellow with the questionable pacemaker/defib, water on the heart, etc. who has gone for two stem cell treatments is now experiencing atrial fibrillation. The doc wants to do Ablation next Thursday, and he is supposed to let the doc know by Monday.

When he checked himself into the hospital last week, they could find nothing really wrong, other than the irregular heart beat. The doc at that time speculated that the "problem" may be due to his stem cell treatment. He said that during stem cell studies, AFIB is quite common, and seemed to imply that as parts of the heart get stronger, it can cause the symptom of atrial fibrillation.

But I notice in the link he sent,http://www.cigna.com/healthinfo/hw159948.html
the following verbiage:

The electrode sends out radio waves that create heat. This heat destroys the heart tissue that causes atrial fibrillation or the heart tissue that keeps it happening. Another option is to use freezing cold to destroy the heart tissue.

To my mind, A) why would you want to destroy ANY heart tissue in a patient with an ejection fraction of 25%? B) what if the problem IS that some of the heart is regenerating and getting stronger than other parts? Would this procedure obviate the stem cell therapy, and C) why the rush?

This fellow's EKG is so bad that when he went to the hospital for an appointment, after seeing his EKG that transferred him to the emergency room. When the doctor got there, he said, "that's normal for him."

I just don't understand.

[Johnwen]

A-fib is a serious condition in that it can cause clots to form and could cause a stroke or other problems else where. In ablation the path ways of the nerves are basically burned which causes the signals to take longer to reach their destination. I'm hoping his doc has already started him on blood thinners to help prevent clots from forming. I'm not a big fan of rat poisons but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Abilation has about 99% sucess rate the 1% usually go on to the Maze procedure which is a open heart procedure. By bring the heart back into sync there's also a good possiblity his EF will increase.
At this point what would be a good choice? B1 is what I would say Min. 50mg a day as you well know thiamine is a excellent nerve fixer upper and that what his problem is at this point.
Now the big question does he need this procedure? If his A-fib is lasting more then 10 minutes and he's having more then 3 episodes a day the answer is yes! If he's having less it could be managed with meds.
Again this is a serious problem and needs to be monitered and corrected ASAP!!

[ofonorow]

Well he's been on coumadin for years, ostensibly because of the defibrillator - which has not gone off, by the way. So "deadening" nerves rather than destroying muscle? Any theory why stem cell patients may be going into A-Fib?

[Johnwen]

I’ll try to answer without writing a book.
When the stem cells are introduced into a stressed heart the heart responses by growing new tissue not all of them are good guys. Some called platelet-derived growth factor A (PDGF-A) start promoting cell proliferation and collagen expression in cardiac fibroblasts. This causes fibrosis in the atrium and enhanced AF susceptibility. These cells with their interstitial deposition of dense ECM (Extracellular matrix) proteins causes separation between bundles of atrial myocytes and disturbs cell-to-cell impulse propagation which in turn causes A-Fib.
Simplified: The stem cells cause’s cells to grow that aren’t all good these bad cells interfere with the electrical conduction of the heart and a-fib is the result.
It hasn’t been proven yet but improper preparation of the stem cells could possibly be the culprit. Because they maybe causing inflammation which leads to these problems. It seems the cells have to be treated with Cromoglicic acid which is a anti-histamine and some labs maybe using some type of Cortisteroids instead.
There also saying that the cells also cause a higher release of C-Reactive protein and we know on this the B Vitamins come into play.
Another speculation is Calcium Channel Blockers such as Norvasc commonly known as, “Amlodipine Besylate.” May relieve these problems.
Trails are underway on this.
Since Stem cell therapy is in it’s infancy a lot of test’s and trials are being conducted as well as a lot of finger pointing. Remember this could be a “CURE,” and that means lost income to some, So there’s bound to be resistance

[ofonorow]

The gentleman was my half-brother, and cofounder of the Vitamin C Foundation - Mike Till. Mike had the procedure (ablation) but went back into A-FIB when he returned home, they performed heroic surgery but could not save him. Mike passed away about one hour ago. As everyone who spoke with Mike knows, he was a wonderful man with a heart of gold. He will be missed and cannot be replaced. I feel as if my right arm has been cut off.

[Johnwen]

My sympathy goes out to his and your families and I will say a prayer for him and his family.
Sometimes as hard as we try to keep someone with us “The Big Guy” has other plans and nothing we can do will change them.
All you can do at this point is be strong and follow the path your brother would have wanted you to follow knowing his memory’s will guide you.

[freeform]

My deepest sympathies