Elevated Lp(a)

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#1  Post by KewlKat » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:46 pm

I need some advice and help. I am trying to turn my health around and have been getting some blood tests to aid me in the adventure. I had a lipid profile a few weeks ago and since the LDL was high I asked and was finally was granted a VAP test. I got those results today and of course the first words out of the drs mouth, via phone, was statins. I do have the pattern A and wondered why I would need the statins. Anyway I also have lots of high number but the one that concerned me the most was the Lp(a). I've been googling and found this forum promoting Vit C, L-lysine and proline for help in reducing the Lp(a). How much should I take, etc? Here are my results of the VAP -

Total LDL - [<130 mg/dl] was 298
Total HDL - [>40] was 52
Total VLDL - [<30] was 24
Total Chol - [<200] was 374
Triglycerides - [<150] was 93
Total apoB100 - [<109] was 199
Non-HDL Chol - [<160] was 322
Lp(a) Chol - [<10] was 22
IDL Chol - [<20] was 39
LDL-R(Real)-C - [<100] was 237
Total LDL-C - [<130] was 298
Real-LDL Size Pattern - A
Remnant Lipoproteins - [<30] was 55
HDL-2 - [>15} was 14
HDL-3 - [>25] was 39
VLDL-3 - [<10] was 16
LDL4 - [no ref given] was 3.5
LDL3 - [no ref given] was 21.4
LDL2 - [no ref given] was 98.7
LDL1 - [no ref given] was 113.1

I do have chest pain, have for many years. I'm 57, family history of CAD, mom died from massive heart attack at 71, brother had one at 61 and dad had many starting at age 34, but nothing in many yrs and he's now 85.

I have no thyroid, have elevated reverse T3, suspect cortisol issues (waiting on saliva test results) and my vit D3 was only 20 so I've increased the D3 to get that up pronto. I gained 70 lbs from May 2010 to Apr 2011 and sought medical assistance to explain why and received no help. In April, I went paleo. I haven't felt this good in decades and have stopped the gain but only lost 12 lbs in these 7 months.

So, I'd like to reduce the Lp(a) if possible as I never want to take statins! Can you help? Thank you.

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:07 pm

I have no thyroid, have elevated reverse T3, suspect cortisol issues


What was your last TSH results??
How much Levothyroxine are you taking??
Have you made any changes to your doseage in the last 8 weeks??
How much do you weight???
Why was your thyroid removed??

Just for general talk: most patients fall into the Minus 40 rule.
Which you take your weight in pounds subtract 40, dose to the lower dose and check TSH in two months, make adjustsments.
Example: 200 lbs. - 40 =160 Ideal dose .160. Levo doseage available .150 then .175.
prescribe .150 and check in 8 weeks.

We have had quite a few disccusions on starting V-C. In general dosing to bowel tolerance which gives an idea of your bodies needs and adjust down till the running to the bathroom stops
Capping The L-Lysine to 6 grams while doing this.
There is No reactions between V-C,L-Lysine and your thyroid meds. Just take your thyroid meds on an empty stomach preferably in the morning 20 minutes before you take or eat anything.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#3  Post by KewlKat » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:26 am

What was your last TSH results??
In Jan 2011 it was .91 [.34-4.82] In July 2011 it was 2.43 [.35-4.94]
I began eating Paleo in April and wondered if that could have caused the spike? No meds were changed. I'm only on synthroid. The TSH was not on this last workup. I insisted they also add the reverse T3 since I felt I've had a T4 to T3 conversion issue since the beginning and recently read about it being a possible cause of weight gain.

The free T3 was 2.7 [2.2 - 4.0]
The free T4 was 1.1 [.8 - 1.5]
Reverse T3 was 255 [90-350]
The ratio of FT3 and RT3 is only 10.6 I've read where it should be a minimum of 20 and this could indicate a possible cortisol issue, or storage iron and serum saturation levels. Even low B12 but my B12 was 795 [254-1320].


How much Levothyroxine are you taking??
I was put on .125 of synthroid and the dosage has never changed no matter how slim or now obese. My tests always showed me in "range" but I've felt hypo all this time.

Have you made any changes to your dosage in the last 8 weeks??
No

How much do you weigh???
I am now down to 202 from an all time high of 215 in Apr.

Why was your thyroid removed??
In January of 1992 I was dxd Graves disease and they destroyed my thyroid with radioactive iodine. They gave me too much stuff and it died in a few days versus weeks and they felt they may have damaged the parathyroid. Since that time I'm always cold (was living in desert SW), get leg cramps, lost my hair on arms and legs and now don't have much in eyebrows, am fatigued, etc.

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#4  Post by KewlKat » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:44 am

We have had quite a few discusions on starting V-C. In general dosing to bowel tolerance which gives an idea of your bodies needs and adjust down till the running to the bathroom stops


I've been taking Vit C for several yrs now, and at one time I was at 12,000 mgs without any bowel issues. I never continued to increase to bowel tolerance as life got in the way but I take at least 9,000 mgs a day now, 3 caps 3 times a day. My bottle says it's ascorbic acid and nothing else except the ingredients for the capsule.

Capping The L-Lysine to 6 grams while doing this.

I've never taken lysine tho I've read about it being good for herpes suppression. I do have herpes issues as I've gotten recurrent shingles, per the dr, since I was 10 yrs old. I'm just getting over a bout right now after not having any outbreaks for several years. It always made me feel so much worse where my ears were concerned. I'm going deaf and have very little balance from the vestibular system.

I do appreciate any help with this Lp(a) issue. I've not had much luck with the medical community. I just keep pushing on and hope for even the smallest improvements. Also, what about the proline? How much should I take of that?

Is taking these three in capsule form okay? or should I be doing powder? Funds are tight as my spouse retired last year and I want to get him on something for plague build up as well.

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#5  Post by gofanu » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:57 pm

The Pauling vitamin C/lysine anti Lp(a) therapy has a lot to recommend it, but in my view it is a workaround patch up for more basic issues. Those are best explained by Dr Kilmer McCully, in this interview:
http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_li ... teine.html
I think that attending to the underlying factors is more sensible.
You will note that this is all about B vitamins at the most basic level, with inflammation/oxidation coming in later. The Paulling therapy comes in late here, so far as the Lp(a) is concerned, though it is primary with regard to both the initial infection/inflammation and the postulated arterial weakness.

It is apparent to me that you had and still have thyroid issues, which I would normally suggest requires iodine and selenium. Drs Abraham and Brownstein are the main experts here. See:
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

This article by Dr Alan R Gaby tells you a lot, especially why the current thyroid tests are useless or worse, and a better way to deal with this.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... ntent;col1

Since you have been used as a sacrifice in the Med Prop program and now do not have a thyroid, you likely cannot fix the problem per Dr Abraham/Brownstein, though iodine and selenium in addition to the Armour may still be of great for extra thyroidal functions. In particular, there are three deiodinase enzymes that are absolutely dependent on selenium; these convert T4 to T3 to T2 to T1. (the T2>T1 is evidently new knowledge since Gaby wrote this)

About 2009 there was a great kerfuffle about FDA making Armour Thyroid disappear. See this, something may sound familiar, esp. the comments!:
http://cltampa.com/dailyloaf/archives/2 ... taken-away

However, it is still available, so FDA must have been shot down:
http://www.armourthyroid.com/

**
It is essential to understand that in addition to Dr McCully's explanations regarding homocysteine and B vitamins, virtually EVERYTHING that happens in your body depends on B vitamins as enzymes, and very much depends on iodine and selenium, either as thyroid hormones OR otherwise. Most of these processes also end up with magnesium in the mitochondria, so shortage of magnesium is a critical issue; magnesium deficiencies are a major cause of all sorts of heart problems.
**
This is an index to a bunch of very good interviews. Among other things, Dr
Passwater is a pioneer in selenium research, so has interviewed everybody working in the field.
http://www.drpasswater.com/
**
Since many of these enzymes are produced in the thyroid, but also in other organs, I have no idea how your situation affects this. Certainly, the Armour will contain some of them.
If you can find a competent and interested Doctor, the following might give leads, but it is technical and complex!
http://iodine4health.com/research/zimme ... lenium.pdf

FRM

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#6  Post by KewlKat » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:42 pm

FRM,

Thank you for all this information. I will read all the links.

Maybe tomorrow I'll have the cortisol results. Wondering if maybe the hypo symptoms may be adrenal fatigue.

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#7  Post by gofanu » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:37 pm

Might also want to look at this:
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1 ... 2-p085.pdf
While it is mainly about thyroid and breast cancer, it has a couple of important little bits.
"Firstly, in order to avoid pituitary overstimulation no patient should be allowed to remain in a hypothyroid state following thyroidectomy." Which you effectively have had.
"Nor is there any indication cholesterol levels were used to determine optimum dose of thyroid."
"About half would have high blood cholesterol levels. The dose of desiccated thyroid would be increased until cholesterol levels, if high, decreased to about 175 mg. per cent."

I have had no success in finding Loeser's 1954 paper Hoffer referred to.

FRM

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#8  Post by KewlKat » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:07 am

FRM,

Thanks for that. I also suggested to this new dr that get my thyroid right and cholesterol will follow. Now I'll have to see if I can find more info on this. I'm due to see her again next week to go over all the tests that have been done. I'm going to take in info from Dr Pauling on the Lp(a) stuff and on vit c in general. I may once again be in the market for another doctor. She told me on my first visit that she approaches things in a holistic manner..........so I was shocked when the first thing that came to mind on my cholesterol was statin....... :roll:

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#9  Post by scottbushey » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:16 am

Ultimately, it is no an Lpa issue per se; it is the type of Lpa you are producing. If it is the large fluffy type-no problem, if it is small dense, thats an issue. The idea is to change your diet so that the small dense chang to large fluffies.

Here's an excellent primer on the above:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4723.html

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#10  Post by KewlKat » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:43 am

scottbushey wrote:Ultimately, it is no an Lpa issue per se; it is the type of Lpa you are producing. If it is the large fluffy type-no problem,


All my LDL is large and fluffy. So if that's the case the Lp(a) is not an issue?

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#11  Post by scottbushey » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:51 am

That is correct; the large fluffies are not considered atherogenic.

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Re: Elevated Lp(a)

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:06 am

Sorry for replaying late. In a sense GOFANU is correct, however Pauling's theory encompasses McCully's and Pauling has long recommended a B-complex (plus Vitamins C, E, A and a multi).

Even if the Lp(a) is not atherogenic - the fact that it is elevated means your body is reacting to issues which normally lead to the build-up of plaque. As long as your vitamin C intake is good, see: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8026
in my view, everything else is secondary. Jobs 2 and 3 are lysine and proline.

The reason for taking these "Lp(a) binding inhibitors" is that they are completely nontoxic and render Lp(a) inert - unable to bind with any existing/growing plaques. (Vitamin C will correct the problem w/r to collagen and help arteries heal and maintain their health.)

So deviate from Linus Pauling's recommendations at your own risk!

Your lack of thyroid complicates matters and previous advice appears sound.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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