leaking heart valves, AFIB, on warfarin and BP meds

[ofonorow]

I have 2 leaking heart valves, and recently diagnosed with atrial fibrillation. I have been on Warfarin for almost 3 weeks, and blood ppressure meds. I have refused to take amiodorone after seeing literature on side effects. I would like to get off warfarin and treat atrial fib with natural cures.

I have been reading Linus Pauling site and others. Any recommendations would be welcome, and if you know of a local MD who uses natural treatments who could/would work with me on cutting back on these meds and improving heart function, I would be grateful.

Suggested Julian Whitaker.

Thank you for your response, and the Vitamincfoundation site. I have looked at that, and followed up references from there. Actually I have the book "Practicing Medicine Without a Licence", and also bought a Vit C product from Tower which has Vit C, Lysine, proline etc. I tried it yesterday, 1//2 a dose, and afterwards my head felt pressure and uncomfortable, so I wondered if it was clashing with my meds including the warfarin? I agree, I need to get off warfarin. What makes me nervous about doing so, and maybe you can help me on this, is I have been told that with atrial fibrillation I am at risk of a blood clot forming in the atrium and going to the brain if I don't take it.

Now I see that Lysine can thin the blood, but Vit C and Vit K have the opposite effect. If I don't take Warfarin, is the blood thinning effect of Lysine enough to keep a clot from forming in my heart? I have not found a cardiologist who knows enough about natural treatment to advise me on this.

Both the cardiologists I have consulted with follow and advise general protocol of warfarin, antiarrythmic drugs, cardio-version etc - none of which are appealing to me! Any further advice on this would be welcome!
Louise W.

[Johnwen]

1st Guy!
If there is a mechanical problem with the valve such as a broken chorde in the mitral theres really not to much that will help other then surgery. I'll say it again,"The longer you wait the worse it gets and the more damage your doing to your heart!!!"

2nd GuY!!

This is from a previous post!

Magnesium and Potassium Aspartate.

Mag 100mg,Potassium 99mg. 3 times a day.

Taking Lysine will not thin your blood to a protective level.
Pauling therapy's will not interfere with warfarin or pardaxa.

[Jacquie]

Also, with regards to vitamin K and warfarin, see this thread, and this post.

[ofonorow]

This one is a woman - louise.

Thank you for your response and for the topic site. I took a Vit K2 this morning, and will continue. I am waiting for other supplements to come in the mail - nattokinase, gingko, Essential Defense. As soon as these arrive, I hope I can go off the warfarin and just use the natural blood thinners until my atrial fibrillation is under control (also with use of natural
supplements). Does this sound about right to you? I have been told by the cardiologist that if I don't thin my blood, I am at risk of getting a clot form in the atrium and go to the brain, so I must keep avoiding that, i hope with the natural blood thinners.

In answer to your question about where did I hear/read about lysine being a blood thinner - I thought it was in the Linus Pauling literature, but on looking, I can't find it there. I did find this site which describes it as a blood thinner
_http://how-to-burn-fat.com/diet-supplements/lysine-supplements_ (http://how-to-burn-fat.com/diet-supplements/lysine-supplements) .
(article by Dr Millhaven).
Louise.

First, I don't recognize those other supplements so I don't know where the idea cam from? We recommend Pauling's therapy plus K2.

Johnwen commented (if I interpret correctly) and he thinks you risk much by delaying surgery.

I am not aware of people on high vitamin C/lysine who suffer blood clots. Sometimes drugs work differently, or problems appear when drugs are stopped suddenly.

Found this at web page you provided, but NEVER HEARD THIS BEFORE and I doubt the Doc is using the word "blood thinner" properly. (From the above link - if anyone can find support or can refute this statement, I'd appreciate the help.)

The Lysine supplement with the prescription medication might make your light headed or dizzy as it is a powerful blood thinner agent almost as powerful as garlic.

The reason do doubt this is that unlike "garlic", lysine is essential to life and everyone has to get about 1 g per day to exist!

[Jacquie]

From Johnwen's posts in the Warfarin and vitamin K thread, I get the understanding that none of the orthomolecular/natural products will thin the blood enough to get up to ~ 22 - 33 seconds prothrombin time (in theory, radically huge doses of vitamin E can do this - 2000 IU/kg body weight/day (140,000 IU for a 154 lb person) - but that's way more than a person could take and totally impractical). I am not a doctor, so I don't know if Warfarin has more negative side effects than just calcifying your tissues, but if it does not, I'd say stay on it, take large doses of vitamin K2, and you'll be able to have your cake and eat it, too.

[ofonorow]

I have been researching so much on-line re natural treatment for arrythmia, that I must be mixing up ideas from other sites. Actually, I have not been advised to have surgery - what was advised was to go onto Amiodarone, then have cardio conversion done, all the while being on warfarin, and then continue amiodarone after the cardio conversion.

Amiodarone has extremely toxic side effects - I think to take it would be worse than having atrial fibrillation. I went to another cardiologist, and he advised the same sequence, except with Multaq first. This medication is not quite as bad as Amiodarone, but not covered by insurance, so would cost me $300 a month. I don't care for either of these two options, and from what I've been reading, the correct supplements should improve my heart so these toxic medications would not be needed. Does Johnwen advise me to adhere
to this cardiologist protocol?

I haven't heard of Vitamin C causing blood clots either, but as long as I do take Warfarin, it is on the list the coumadin clinic gave me, of items that counter the effects of coumadin, and so they advise limiting intake. If I adhere to the Cardiologist outline, I would have to remain on warfarin, and keep going to the clinic weekly or every 2 weeks as the decide, and if my coumadin reading is below 2, then they will increase the dose. When a
bruise appeared on my arm a week or so ago, I took some spinach and vitamin C, and my next reading was down to 2.0, so I was reprimanded for taking the spinach and C, and advised to stick to the diet that limits those good things. (List of things that increase risk of bleeding while taking warfarin, and list of things that decrease it's effects attached - given to me by the coumadin clinic). I want to get off warfarin, which would be against either of the two cardiologist's advise! From what I have been reading, continued warfarin use causes more calcium to be deposited on artery walls and valve walls - I want to stop taking it!!!

Louise

Yes, the standard advice coincidentally "creates business" for their practices. Avoiding vitamin C and green leafy vegies!!?!! Arghh!? That advice is almost criminal to my mind.

Do I know where you live? Find an alternative doctor and do it fast!

I interpreted johnwen's comments that in his experience, depending on the situation as he inquired, surgery is the only/best option, but perhaps he will respond to your question about the protocol that has been recommended (above.)


Also we've discussed AFIB beforehttp://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8230

[Jacquie]

I haven't heard of Vitamin C causing blood clots either, but as long as I do take Warfarin, it is on the list the coumadin clinic gave me, of items that counter the effects of coumadin, and so they advise limiting intake.

All the research I've seen indicates the opposite. In Stop America's #1 Killer, Levy discusses the studies showing that vitamin C decreases the risk of blood clots, and furthermore, helps dissolve any blood clots that do happen to form. So definitely take vitamin C, unless someone can show you good research that says otherwise.

When a bruise appeared on my arm a week or so ago, I took some spinach and vitamin C, and my next reading was down to 2.0, so I was reprimanded for taking the spinach and C, and advised to stick to the diet that limits those good things.

...From what I have been reading, continued warfarin use causes more calcium to be deposited on artery walls and valve walls - I want to stop taking it!!!

Spinach definitely has vitamin K1 in it, and K1 will interfere with coumadin/warfarin's effect, to be sure. However, K2 has nothing to do with blood clotting, and everything to do with decalcifying your arteries.

Of course you must make the decision based on your own comfort, and evaluation of the risks and benefits, but remember, taking enough K2 stops warfarin from calcifying the blood vessels and valves, without increasing the risk of blood clots: Tissue-specific utilization of menaquinone-4 [vitamin K2 mk-4] results in the prevention of arterial calcification in warfarin-treated rats.

[Johnwen]

I'll repeat Warfarin is not affected by vitamin C
You trust your life to someone who don't know the difference between
VITAMIN C and PROTEIN C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_C

Caution on the

nattokinase, gingko

These are Highly reactive with warfarin.
you should be off it for at least 1 week.

AGAIN
Quote:
Magnesium and Potassium Aspartate.

Mag 100mg,Potassium 99mg. 3 times a day.