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 Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech 
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
Quote:

Owen,
After 6 jars of Heart Technology (2 to 3 times daily) my cholesterol numbers DOUBLED (LDL is almost 300) and my Lp(a) went up from 20 to 22. These are the worst test results I've had in 14 years of regular testing. I had been using ProFibe which was wonderful at keeping the numbers almost reasonable. I stopped that when I went on the Vitamin C



From what you report - something was holding the cholesterol down. This is a very unusual report and we would appreciate more details. We do see elevations in the beginning - as cholesterol comes off the arterial wall, enters blood and is not expelled for some time.

It would also mean you need to find your vitamin C bowel tolerance and add more vitamin C to heart tech/A-9. Vitamin C is "weaker" at lowering cholesterol than a statin - meaning you need more, which will help all your cells. At the optimum level, vitamin C can control cholesterol, but you obviously need more, maybe a lot more vitamin C to equal whatever you were using before that "artificially" lowered your hypercholesterolemia. With that high cholesterol, I am surprised you don't have a home cholesterol meter - pricks your finger,now sold out of UK (Made in Taiwan)

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:42 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Posts: 1167
Post Re: Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
Is he just worried about numbers or the condition of his heart? High numbers like his now, are a sign something needs healing and that's what the heart tech is all about healing the condition that is causing the high numbers. V-c is not a body destroying drug that gives good numbers and messes up the whole system in the process, It is a aid for the body to correct the damage that has been done over the years. Somepeople with fresh damage will see amazing results but the average person who has spent years developing damage will take maybe years to see recovery. As Owen said try for "bowel tolerance" to see how messed up things are, the higher the doseage required will let you know how bad they are and it'll take a while to heal. If he's worried about numbers there's lots of drugs that'll blast his liver into orbit but the numbers will be good!!!! :!:

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Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:54 pm
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Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 906
Post Re: Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
Furthermore, high cholesterol is not considered risk factor any more, particularly for women.

For instance:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20470020
Quote:
Participants with low serum total cholesterol seem to have a lower survival rate than participants with an elevated cholesterol level, irrespective of concomitant diseases or health status


Or:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 767.x/full

Quote:
Our study provides an updated epidemiological indication of possible errors in the CVD risk algorithms of many clinical guidelines. If our findings are generalizable, clinical and public health recommendations regarding the ‘dangers’ of cholesterol should be revised. This is especially true for women, for whom moderately elevated cholesterol (by current standards) may prove to be not only harmless but even beneficial
.


Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:25 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Posts: 1167
Post Re: Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
If you think raising your HDL or BETTER KNOWN AS "GOOD CHOLESTEROL" Is going to help think again!!!
GEE I wonder why that is?? Maybe Cholesterol isn't really what causes heart disease???

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarti ... mber11.xml

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Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:39 am
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Post Re: Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
I thought I would follow-up as I am the originator of the note voicing concerns to Owen.

My background briefly:
I had a MI in April of 1997 at the age of 42. An angiogram revealed the RCA to be completely occluded. A stent was not placed as it was deemed too dangerous. I was strongly advised to have a bypass. I refused and said I would like to try other alternatives first.

I purchased Dr. Dean Ornish’s book “Reversing Heart Disease” and followed his protocol to the letter. (I’ve since relaxed it a bit but still eat a low-saturated fat diet, exercise, and try to reduce stress via several methods.) Second, I stared taking ProFibe 3x daily, (wwww.profibe.com) a grapefruit pectin fiber supplement that has been shown to eliminate soft arterial plaques.

Within 6 months all discomfort/pressure in my throat had ceased. I had 2 subsequent thalium stress tests over the next 3 years that showed good blood flow. Bottom line is I’ve felt great now going on 14 years.

So why the change? I decided to try the Pauling Protocol as my LP(a) was high. My cardiologist first tested it back in ’98 or ’99 and told me it was near 100. She also said it was hard to measure and nothing could lower it so I needed to be on a statin. I’ve been on and off (off for the last couple of years) statins and Niaspan (once). I had my first VAP test 7 months ago and it measured my Lp(a) at 20, much better but still not good. I have a strong family history so I wanted to try to get it down to the recommended 10.

So 7 months later (off the ProFibe, instead taking the max recommended Heart Tech (per packaging). So the VAP I just had 2 weeks ago not only showed my Lp(a) going up to 22 but all my numbers were much worse that my first test 14 years ago when I was eating horribly, and I wasn’t even fasting for that test. I had just had a very fatty lunch!

So, yeah numbers still scare me. I look at that picture of my angiogram and it kind of freaks me out when I see the following from this month:
Total 363
LDL 262
HDL 71
VLDL 30
apoB110-calc 174
LDL-R 208
Lp(a) 22
IDL 33
Rem Lipo 50
HDL-2 20
HDL-3 51
VLDL-3 17
LDL1 Pattern A 42.1
LDL2 Pattern A 81.2
LDL3 Pattern A 84.0
LDL4 Pattern A 0.5
LDL Density Pattern A

The only good news I see here is that my LDL density pattern is large buoyant. For reference, the first VAP test I had 7 months ago (before Heart Tech) my HDL was 83 and my LDL total was 180, still high. (OK, I over reacted in my e-mail, it didn’t double.) A new MD I saw (not my cardiologist, as she would be freaked by this) said not to worry, my HDL was great and my Pattern density was type A. But she did say I needed to get the Lp(a) down so I increased my niacin intake from 1 to 2g a day and started Vit C. You can see the results.

So yes, it was the ProFibe that was keeping my cholesterol numbers somewhat in check. (I’ve had them much better. I test all over the map, no consistency what so ever.) I also credit this stuff with clearing out my RCA and keeping me off the operating table.

Still I was hoping the Heart Tech would help with the Lp(a). So I am not sure if it will have any effect. That said, I am taking ProFibe again.

All comments are appreciated.


Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:44 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Hypercholesterolemia - LDL doubled on Heart Tech
My initial reaction.

The Ornish diet can work and the Pauling theory can still be correct because Ornish cuts out the trans fats that would lead to problems absorbing vitamin C. I believe less vitamin C would be necessary on such a diet, but I don't believe in very-low fat diets per se. Certainly low trans fat diets are great! It is interesting that you did well for 14 years on that diet!

That 100 Lp(a) number was probably computed or the units were nmol/l (not mg/dl) but the 20 Vap Lp(a) test score is still high.

How much vitamin C did you supplement over that 14 year period? The average daily intake?

In your case - combing grapefruit with a statin is prolematical - read the inserts of your statin drugs! The should say avoid grapefuit! Maybe the pectin isolate doesn't have the same effect on the P450 enzyme system?

So based on what you have reported, I would stay on the original diet that worked so well, and simply start by slowly increasing vitamin C to bowel tolerance. See if your body adjusts and you feel better with the elevated C intake. Find the right level, and it will over time lower/control your elevated cholesterol. If you then decide to add lysine, then a product like HT can be convenient and eliminate the fillers in pills.

If you decide to stay on the statins - make sure you are taking plenty of Coq10 - take with fats. It is not how much CoQ10 is taken - it is how much that is absorbed that counts, and fats/bile is required for CoQ10 absorption.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:05 am
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