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 Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help 
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
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(1) Mid-March 2011 started experiencing chest discomfort (pressure) center of chest just below sternum.

(2) April 2011. The pain steadily increased and was constant - it can be somewhat alleviated by pressing just below the sternum. My GP did check up said everything looked fine but sent me off for blood test and EKG that day. All tests were normal.

(3) Long story short: Since April of 2011 I\'ve made 6 ER visits (no 24 hr stays) at a grand total of about $11,000 for what I thought was indicative of angina. All tests were normal: blood markers, EKG, blood O2 saturation, BP (120s/70-80 after 3rd measurement and calmed down) pulse (~ 40-50 bpm) etc. During one ER visit I had a Doppler echocardiogram stress test. Performed in the top 1% for 18 yo (I was 42). My total cholesterol in July 2011 after a 12 hour fast was 152 with LDL at 83 & HDL 40s, CRP was good, triglycerides were around 150 I think, glucose was about 90, homocysteine was mid range. Hospital cardiologist and referred cardiologist (2 visits) both concluded no problems based on evidence and physical. In July 2011, during 2nd office visit, the referred cardiologist suggested but didn\'t insist on an angiogram. I declined.

(4) During the last 15 months the dull pain has been persistent (symptoms have included occasional numbness in right or left hand/foot if I leave them in one position for too long - sometimes on awaking, light but sharp pain in center chest and back at top of inhale and bottom of exhale, infrequent slight pain in left bicep area, dull pressure in head but not a headache quality - I\'ve never had a headache, appearance of R & L temple blood vessels, rare ringing In left ear). Disenchanted with conventional toximoleclar medicine and invasive tests, I sought out various natural alternatives since that\'s my MO anyway. E.g. 10 IV EDTA chelation treatments, daily high dose (+30,000 mg) Vit C & lysine adjusted for body weight (I\'ve also used 3 containers of HT Cardioaide and A-9 in the last 2 months (March-April 2012), and the protocos/methods of Drs\' Ornish, McDougall, Essylsten, Garry Gordon, Andrew Saul, Hoffer, and of course Pauling/Rath. None of these approaches, combined!
or separate have entirely releaved symptoms. I\'ve literally spent thousands out of pocket.

Okay, stats: 43 yo, 5\'-7\", 147 lbs, good BMI, 29\" waist, no real history of heart disease in family - father had MI 20 years ago at 59 yo followed by 3-bypass and has done okay since when considering he\'s done no lifestyle changes, exercise regularly sim to P90X routine.

I guess I\'d like to know if you have any suggestion/s as I\'m convinced in the efficacy of orthomolecular medicine, esp. Pauling & V-C, but it\'s becoming increasingly time consuming and way too expensive (I have a family to support). I\'m also a little irritated/disappointed that I haven\'t experienced some positive improvement similar to others regardless of \"results may vary\".

R,
Tom


My first reaction given the lab results and the amount of vitamin C consumed is that the pain is not related to cardiovascular disease. I am very interested in Johnwen's opinion. I'll reread your email, think about this and revise and extend my remarks later.

In the meantime, what meds and supplements do you take regularly? I am interested in your magnesium
intake. There are muscles that surround the arteries that "squeeze" the artery for various reasons,
e.g. the fight-or-flight response. Magnesium and arginine may be able "relax" these muscles, increasing
blood flow.

Another random thought. I remember reading that a very high percentage of ER visits for apparent heart attack or chest pains are false alarms. I'll try to find the reference, but I believe that many are due to something like GERD or indigestion. Pains that are commonly mistaken for chest/heart pain.


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Sat May 05, 2012 1:58 am
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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
I'd opt for the angiogram with a good check of the aorta.
Could very well be a aortic aneurysm or a abdominal AA if not it'll give you peace of mind that the ticker will keep on ticking.
That's kind of a tricky spot you got the tip of the heart, the vagus nerve,the dissending aorta, the kidney arteries and the top of the stomach all in one area, not to mention the muscles either so I would really start with getting the aorta checked first because if it ruptures the rest wouldn't matter anyway.
This could be serious and really needs to be checked out ASAP.

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Sat May 05, 2012 4:27 am
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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
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I CAN'T POST TO FORUM YET. I'VE REPLIED BELOW UNTIL I CAN.


Thank you Mr. Fonorow.


If you'll allow me to expand for better accuracy, which may help:


I take no medications. Not even aspirin. I rarely if ever get a cold and never get the flu.


The pressure/dull pain has been localized just below & beneath the bottom of my sternum. It then radiates outwards & upwards in an 80 degree arc up and what feels like just behind the sternum. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd call it about a 5 at the worst and qualify it as a sore muscle rather than a broken bone or bumped knee. And as I said, it's constant.


Over the course of the last year I have felt a few infrequent heart flutters that lasted about 1-2 seconds. I'd say they've occurred about 1x per 2-3 months if that. I have not noted any consistency or increase in frequency. I just may be more (hyper)sensitive to something that's probably benign.


The pain also "travels" or sometimes presents just in my mid back between the spine & bottom of shoulder blade. It's centered on about a 2 in^2 area. When massaged or pressure is applied to this area I gain some relief although it's also simultaneously a "good" pain like when you pull a thorn out.


There have been occasions where I've gone a few days with negligible discomfort that I hardly notice it but these have been the exception and not the rule. Unfortunately, I haven't kept a journal for reference.


I started a knew fitness regimen and for a while I felt better. In fact, I felt comparatively better after exercising. But recently, it hasn't been as effective although I'm continuing with my routine. (I have been winded and felt my heart racing after quickly climbing up 50 feet of stairs at work but I typically can do 10 reps up and down the steps to the second floor of my house without too much trouble.)


As far as activity goes, I just cut and trimmed the yard, washed the car and helped clean the house. The pain pretty much stayed the same throughout: about a 3-5. I find it reduces with a little rest.


I have noticed that sometimes the area is aggravated when I eat something bulky and dry that passes it on the way down. And sometimes I feel like the pressure increases in the area when I eat certain meals.


I haven't experienced a shortness of breath. I seem to be breathing quite well. However, the pain increases about +1-2 upon deep breathing at the top of the inhale and I can sustain the elevated pain by holding my breadth. The same can be said for the exhale. This also presents pain in the area in my back.


I have noticed a mild dull ache in my left bicep that sometimes travels down the outside of the forearm along the radius bone that I can relieve it with a little massage/manipulation. This hasn't occurred with any degree of consistency.


I've never experienced sharp or crushing pains or what I'd call definite pain "in the heart". The pain isn't really diffuse or doesn't really travel throughout my pectoral region.


6 chest x-rays were normal. No pulmonary issues. Heart was normal. Last x-ray was in July 2011. Had a chest MRI on 09-29-11. Nothing of concern. Radiologist commented: "asymmetric hypertensive signal in the chondral cartilage of the inferior left hemithorax is present on sequence 5 but is not seen on any other sequence and is favored to represent artifact related to the gas filled stomach below. If this correlates to point tenderness over the left epigastric region, this could represent mild costochondritis."


Don't know if this is relevant but I had an MRI of spine after a bad accident on 02/10/2010 and was experiencing muscle twitches. Heavy equipment fell on me from behind. I mention it because I was told that these chest pain symptoms could be related since there were some reports of other people presenting "angina" as a result of similar circumstances. Results:


(a) Minimal C6-7 disc height loss (mild degenerative disease)
(b) C4-5 mild dorsal disc bulge (mild degenerative disease)
(c) C6-7 broad based mild dorsal disco osteophytic changes eccentric to the left with a small protrusion in the left paracentral region mildly effacing the ventral thecal sac cord in the left paracentral region.

More accurate numbers from AUG 2011 labs after 12 hour fast (I don't know all the units but this is an American lab):


(a) Glucose = 93 (ps: I'm a vegetarian and consume a high raw food by ratio plus raw veg. Juices)
(b) Insulin = 4
(c) Potassium = 4.3
(d) Magnesium = 1.9
(e) Iron, serum = 127
(f) Cholesterol = 152 (LDL = 82, HDL = 34)
(g) Triglyceride = 178 (high)
(h) Homocysteine = 7.7
(I) CRP = 0.5
(j) pH (urine) = 6.5
(k) sodium = 134 (low)


As I mentioned in previous email, I take over 30k mg of V-C/day with about 5k mg/day (sometimes more but not less - although I've just run out of A-9, Cardioaide & lysine. I also daily take niacin 4x250 mg , V-E mixed tocopherols 3x1000 mg, V-K2 mk7 3x1000 mcg, V-D3 3x5,000 IU, UBIQUINOL 4x100 mg, ALA 4x100mg, glutathione 1x500 mg, nattokinase 4x2000 IU, mixed carnitines, Curcumin 3x500 mg, astaxanthin 3x4 mg, Gary Gordon's Essential Daily Defense 4x, Gordon's Beyond Chelation Improved 2x, EDTA 12x750 mg, liquid garlic 2x1/4 tsp, Mg citrate 2x350mg, d-ribose 3x1tsp, sublingual B-12, lecithin 4x1Tbsp, lumbrokinase 2x20 mg, liquid nano zeolite and silver.


I get at least 30 mins of afternoon sunshine/ day and try to "ground" (re: Dr. Sinatra) as much as possible.


Well that's more than enough info to digest. Off to another dose of V-C and then the beach! Life doesn't stop just because of a little pain ;). And I refuse to "cripple" myself.


R,
Tom

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Mon May 07, 2012 3:29 am
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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
Johnwen wrote:
I'd opt for the angiogram with a good check of the aorta.
Could very well be a aortic aneurysm or a abdominal AA if not it'll give you peace of mind that the ticker will keep on ticking.
That's kind of a tricky spot you got the tip of the heart, the vagus nerve,the dissending aorta, the kidney arteries and the top of the stomach all in one area, not to mention the muscles either so I would really start with getting the aorta checked first because if it ruptures the rest wouldn't matter anyway.
This could be serious and really needs to be checked out ASAP.


Thank you. But after the stress test and 3 physicals by cardiologists they ruled out anything like this. My stress test was excellent. Beyond excellent according to the techs and Dr. Would this have been the case otherwise? Could they be that off? Could an aneurysm last for 15 months?


R,
Tom


p.s.

Forgot to mention: carotids were in good shape. No blockages.


Realizing the diagnostic limitations of an email, please understand my confusion about an aneurysm. This is the first time anyone's even mentioned it and that's after 3 cardiologists' assessments. Stress test and Doppler echo said there were no enlargements. 83% ejection fraction at peak stress. X-rays were normal.


But. I do appreciate Johnwen's assistance. Again, thank you.


R,
Tom

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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
The reason for my suspicion of this is the injury's you had. It don't take much wrong place wrong time and there it is. Even people in good overall health get banged the wrong way and they got problems. Remember this is just an idea and there is a good possibility your doc has already checked it out but worth asking him if he looked at this possibility.
Here's some links for further reading. On the second one look at, "injury."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_aneurysm

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/tc/a ... rysm-cause

Hope this helps if not at least it's educational :)

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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
Check with a Gastroenterologist you may have GERD. I have lesions in the stomach and when they act up the Vagus nerve becomes agitated and will emulate a heart attack. Not to mention pain in the pectoral muscles and neck, back. Vagus nerve runs throughout the abdomen and chest area as I' sure you are aware.

I have been diagnosed with the same condition and been fighting it for several years with stomach meds. Several times I though I was having the big one, the troponin test comes back negative and home I go to nurse the lesions. The pain is in the right area for heart trouble but is not exactly the same as heart attack symptoms...................but real close.


Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:35 am
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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
jknosplr - now for some new and different advice.

It is known how to resolve that pain.

Go to the library, read SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition (2004) by William Mck Jefferies - especially the cases.

If after reading you still have questions how to resolve the pain, I'd be happy to provide my newly acquired knowledge and input (Having lived with zero cortisol for some time, I can tell you that a) every potential trouble spot in the body will inflame and become painful when the cortisol supply dwindles, and b) at some level of cortisol - all pain can be eliminated. The trick, as the book suggests, is to determine whether a safe replacement dosage can work the miracle.)

Added:

Oh, and the other trick is getting the damn hydrocortisone prescription!

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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
let me see if I understand your advice correctly. You want me to treat stomach lesions with hydrocortisone a pain reliever. I'm already am being treated with a pain reliever.............I would like for it to heal. The meg does VC made it worse. Best thing to do is stay away from foods that produce an adverse reaction
I don't think I will be chasing the cortisol train today.
My posting was to help the gentleman who's heart and associated plumbing seem to be intact. He appears to have some of the same symptoms which I'm being treated for by a Gastroenterologist. He should get a gastrointestinal endoscopy performed before administering any of the over the counter and holistic concoction's that are provided in pharmacy's or on the Internet.

If its not diagnosed correctly how can the condition be treated?


Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:04 am
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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
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If its not diagnosed correctly how can the condition be treated?

Great question! I sometimes wonder that myself, now that I understand how to turn off my GERD, my hemorrhoid, my joint and muscle and back pain. Am I masking something; might the inflammation be helping? Could I be doing harm by turning off the inflammation?

In my case, I don't think so, as the inflammation was caused because my cortisol was too low, and
can be turned off now by something less than a replacement dose.

You can lead a horse to water...

I was suggesting that you read the book and form your own opinion.

The knowledge I inadvertently, unwittingly, stumbled upon, etc. and now possess is (from a macro perspective) how cortisol controls pain. So if someone is going to the emergency room because of pain that isn't heart related, and it almost goes without saying that they are under stress, AFTER reading the book, you or that person might want to consider the fact that the pain you are experiencing is because your adrenals are fatigued.

But some people like pain. Not for me to judge.

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Post Re: Johnwen - 6 ER v. Pain in chest, labs good, PT useless, help
My heart is in great condition now but after suffering a mild heart attack 2 and a half years ago I tend to get panicky sometimes if I get a pain for a second around my chest area. Anxiety attacks can present themselves with the physical symptoms of a heart attack/heart problems etc. Reading over this quickly when I saw your test results from the doppler echocardiogram and being in top 1% for 18 yo at the age of 42 I immediately thought anxiety. Question, when you get to the ER do you start to feel better? When you see the doctor are you feeling better? When you leave are you fine? Sounds like anxiety, add some niacin to your supplement regime and that should do the trick with your anxiety. Anxiety attacks can come on for no reason even if your not stressed about anything(this has been the case for me)

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