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 Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril 
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
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I am a 60 year old woman to had a stroke almost 10 years ago. The stroke was caused by carodid arteries being clogged. I got put on all kinds of meds that are dangerous, i also have left side paralises. I took all those meds for years and wanted to find something that would clear my arteries and lower my blood pressure.

I ordered cardio c in 2007 and took it for quite a while, srarted feeling better and decided to change it to Heart tech. Felt great , been taking it since my bp had been good most of the time unless i got sick with a bad cold or something.

I went to a doctor for him to look at a spot on my head that didn't look to good. my bp was 220/i dont know why. i was so concerned that im not worried about that thing on my head any longer. i dont like going to drs but i do like your advice. As far as i know my bp had been umder control after getting on heart tech. i slowly got off of all meds. now this dr put me on lisinopril 20mg daily.I have wrote to you before, have your book and i trust your judjment . Vickie


Maybe johnwen will respond about lisinopril.

As far as the spot on your head, I would apply a vitamin C paste. If cancer, it will crust and fall off..

See:
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/basal.htm

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Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:51 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
Lisinopril is made from the venmon of a snake from South America I believe it's the Jacara.
It's basically an ACE inhibitor but do to it's origin many foriegn doctors tend to shy away from it.
In fact I know one doc from South America who flat out refuses to dispence it. I have talked to him a few times and learned when he was an intern he used to treat the people who got bit while harvesting the venom and has seen the results of these bites first hand. This has left a lasting impression with him and has influenced me.
Although it's been around a long time it has a good track record and is used quite often. If she gets good results with it stick with it. Usually if results are iffy a beta blocker may be added this usually gives good results.
Let's face it 220/anything, is high and dangerous especially in a person who already has stroked out. Heart tech is good but with it in this situation I would add a couple/few more V-C pills and get up to BT per the procedure described in this forum. ( Don't have link handy Owen???).
Then stick with it. In her situation also I would avoid L-Arginine :x

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Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:52 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
he did answer right away thanks but what i really want to know is why do you think my bp came up so high after all the time i have been on the hearttech and other natural stuff and maybe it didnt clear my carodid arteries after all.What do you think I should do? sincerely Vicki Poole


Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:16 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
i have been looking on line for a carodid artery "unblocker" I have come across asomething called angioprim.it is expensive but woth it if it works. a cat scan is very expenseve. is there anything else sa person can do to have their arteries checked? Vickie Poole


Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:21 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
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he did answer right away thanks but what i really want to know is why do you think my bp came up so high after all the time i have been on the hearttech and other natural stuff and maybe it didnt clear my carodid arteries


Could be Stress and or adrenal fatigue, ageing, diet etc. Usually if there is a sudden spike in BP a very stressful incident in the persons life happened about 1 to 3 month's prior to the spike.

Quote:
is there anything else sa person can do to have their arteries checked?


That thing that Doctor's and nurses hang off their neck is the fastest and cheapest check there is. Called a sitescope! Listening to the cartoid arteries is the gold standard. When the cartoid's get blocked they produce a distinct sound known as a bruit. This is a swishing sound caused by turbulence of the high volumne of blood getting disturbed by a rise within the pipe. If you have one, just place the pick up next to your throat on either side then the other side. If you hear nothing or a thump there clear if you hear a swish or bubbling sound you need to see your doc. He then can evaluate it and give the best advise what the next step should be!

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Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:49 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
Surveyor wrote:
i have been looking on line for a carodid artery "unblocker" I have come across asomething called angioprim.it is expensive but woth it if it works. a cat scan is very expenseve. is there anything else sa person can do to have their arteries checked? Vickie Poole


I am interested in your answer to johnwen's question about recent stress - as there is a definite connection between adrenal "exhaustion" and blood pressure..... My new favorite subject..

as far as

Quote:
angioprim


THis is an old memory. They are good marketers. It doesn't have vitamin C, and we gained a lot of business from people who first tried this product.

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Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:00 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
"why do you think my bp came up so high after all the time"
Maybe going to the Doctor because you were thinking you now have cancer is a factor.
BP is known to go up a lot when people go to Doc for routine checks, never mind life
threatening possibilities.
One BP reading is not to be trusted or feared, several is another thing, if some of them are taken under non stress conditions.

FRM


Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:20 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
White coat hypertension is a common problem. Normally it adds about 30 points to the systolic and ten to the diastolic. So a person with normal bp would present with a 140-150 over 75-85 and would not get a second look.
When someone presents with higher then 170 your looking at a problem. At 200 action is to be taken. Especially in someone who already had circulatory problems. Continued stress contributes to many adverse effects on the body. As does, not giving the body what it needs to survive. Ie: poor diet. Trauma be it emotional or physical plays a big role in how a person’s BP will respond. These events in a person’s life are remembered by the body and at times it appears the body figures it’s easier to just stay on high alert rather then relax and then jump up when the need arises. Controlling these kind Bp problems usually ends up with poly pharmaceuticals.
Going to see a doctor for many people is just another form of???
HINT: It start’s with ST and you can figure the RESSt!

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Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:28 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
Johnwen-
I am not arguing that such readings should be ignored, but that they should be rechecked. We are given one reading or incidence only. And Vickie gets more damned pills.

And "just another form of???" is a pretty cavalier assessment of the situation, typical of the world in general and Doctors in particular.
"White coat hypertension" = yes, but a small factor here
Terror at cancer possibility - by 60 we all start to know people with this, and to have seen the consequences = more all too often useless pills and Doctors. We do not know her "fear of cancer status" - and maybe she doesn't either.

When people first meet these terrors personally, there is a quick emergency response from "Well I might have cancer" to thinking as if "I HAVE CANCER" AND I HAVE to GO to the DOCTOR AND TAKE MORE PILLS and I'm GONNA DIE and It is gonna HURT AND I'M SAD and MAD as HELL and I want to RUN and I WANT to KILL somebody like MY DOCTOR who was supposed to prevent this".

The "rational mind" and the "grown up emotions" might hide this from everyone (especially) including the patient/victim, but the scared little kid inside is REALLY scared and (her) body reacts as such.
The possibility that the "cancer" might mean that the DIY Vitamin C etc cure didn't work for cancer so it might not work for the stroke problem either = here we go AGAIN!
As in "why do you think my bp came up so high after all the time i have been on the hearttech and other natural stuff and maybe it didnt clear my carodid arteries after all."
Which is now "confirmed" by this BP reading, so the whole thing becomes a self feeding monster.

"My body betrayed me, my Doctor failed me, my alt med failed me, I have cancer(gonna suffer and die), I'm gonna have another stroke or a heart attack have to deliver myself up to the DOCTORS again to the drug again to the hospital again "

To a Mechanic, when your car has a problem, it is "Just" this or that and we can fix it; to you it is screwing up your schedule and you'll be late to work and your boss will be mad. Both are valid and true.
A Doctor should consider your physical state the same way, except that the "car" or "broken thing" IS ALSO the patient. That means that the Doctor CANNOT use "just {a mechanical problem}" in his thought about the patient.
In fact, as a Mechanic, I always considered my customer's state of mind to be a significant factor in how I dealt with him/her while I fixed the car. Didn't get paid for that either, and it was sometimes costly to me personally, but I sleep well.

Any "support" person who uses the word "just" to describe this situation and level of stress is deluding himself. Worse yet, if he says it to the patient, he is now questioning the validity of the single remaining "certainty" in the patient's life, now that all else has collapsed in the tsunami of terror and doubt.

FRM


Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:34 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
I'm still trying to figure out how cancer got in the mix of things here?
I keep rereading the original post and nothing ever is mentioned about it except in your postings.
Why would a person presume such a disease if it was never brought up.
She concerned about her Bp and the possibility of her cartoid arteries reclogging where did cancer come from????

Quote:
And "just another form of???" is a pretty cavalier assessment of the situation, typical of the world in general and Doctors in particular.


This is what is called taking things out of context. It is being used as a question and your assesing it as some sort of statement. Which is not the original intent.

Quote:
Going to see a doctor for many people is just another form of???


I don't know what your problem is? If you want to disscuss it you should start another post and it can be dealth with but to say, "some type of problem you have relates to everyone else!" I'm affraid you are mistaken.

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Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:19 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
Johnwen-
OP: "I went to a doctor for him to look at a spot on my head that didn't look to good."

In my experience this is frequently or always a way of saying "I fear cancer".
It has been any and every time I have heard it said. You may substitute "sore", "lump", "pain" etc for "spot". If I am wrong, then ignore my post.
It means that we cannot deal with this only or mainly as a BP problem, because the BP may be consequent to terror; focusing on, or treating the BP without that recognition is doomed to failure.

I was attempting to answer the OP question implied:
"my bp was 220/i dont know why. i was so concerned that im not worried about that thing on my head any longer."
And stated:
"what i really want to know is why do you think my bp came up so high after all the time... "

This issue is a major failing of the specialist system - you are a heart guy and see things from that vantage point, all fine perhaps, for the heart/BP itself. A Healer looks at the terrified person and realizes that the heart and associated BP is secondary, still recognizing that it may be immediately critical.

"Going to see a doctor for many people is just another form of???
HINT: It start’s with ST and you can figure the RESSt!"
Is your question, and I recognize it as a question, but it includes the "just", which as I am trying to say IS a STATEMENT of importance relevant to the OP's situation. I feel that if my assessment of the OP statement as explained is correct, then this is far more than "just" (another) stress, rather it is the descent into terror, certainly relevant to sudden high BP.
Yes the high BP should be attended to, first by determining if it is/was more than transient, and then by taking appropriate action if necessary. I see no indication that further measurements were taken, though I hope so, but my hopes are frequently not realized when they ought to be.

I find your paragraph re "white coat hypertension" to be wonderfully clear and informative, and would recommend it to all and sundry. The parts about stress and trauma are excellent and another way of saying what I am saying. The difference is that I consider the "just another form of" statement or implication to be possibly contributing greatly to the patient's stress and trauma.

I recognize and appreciate your "intent", and it is appropriate among "mechanics" to discuss technical things this way, but am trying to point out that the patient's fear can easily obscure and override any intent of a practitioner, with even the best of intent and effort.

Try as I might, I cannot figure out the meaning of, or the question you are asking in your ending paragraph.
If a new thread seems required, start it or tell me what you think it should be.

FRM


Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
Vickie, sorry for the digression... Perhaps there is a way for you to monitor your own blood pressure, and see how high it is during "calm" periods? (As johnwen has pointed out elsewhere, blood pressure has a cycle too.. (hmmmmmmm cortisol?) and varies in a fairly predictable way throughout the day.)

But assuming that it is that high, and you want the peace of mind of lowering it, I would begin by not only increasing your vitamin C, but adding an absorbable magnesium (300 to 1000 mg) and 200 mg of a good vitamin B6.

It is interesting that johnwen said to avoid arginine, because that is generally another amino given to lower blood pressure. Johnwen?

And if you can think of other things you might be doing, such as restricting salt, that might be having the opposite of its intended effect.




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Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:42 am
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Post Re: Stroke victim better on PT, but questions lisinopril
L-Arginine effects the production of endothiel cells by satisfying the body’s need for Nitric Oxide. When the body needs more nitric oxide it sends out markers to identify and repair damaged endo cells so they can come back on line or grow new ones to bring the NO levels back up. A person who has had a stroke which generally is clot breaking loose from a damaged area and moving into a smaller pipe and getting lodged blocking circulation to that portion of the body. Unfortunately the brain has the smallest arteries in the body and this is were the most damage is done. If the person survives the clot the body now has a lot of clean up to do. By adding V-C and L-lysine it gives the body the tools to rebuild these areas adding L-arginine sends signals of increased NO back which slows the body’s healing. I know it’s been ten years but her increase in BP tells me everything is not right. She should stick with the Vitamin C and l-lysine and her prescribed ACE inhibitors which do not mess with the NO production but blocks the agent that causes constriction of the arteries.
Now for the one that will raise some eyebrows!!!
If she were my patient!! I’d have her on a blood thinners also, till I seen a reduction in her BP. I’m not saying it would reduce her BP but would add a margin of safety if things go the wrong way.

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:04 pm
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