Vit C effect on bowel flora / ph

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trillian
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Vit C effect on bowel flora / ph

Post Number:#1  Post by trillian » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:01 am

I am curious what thoughts / conclusions there are about the effect of large-ish doses of vitamin C on the ph of the large intestines.

My concern would be the lowering of the bowel ph to an acidic state and thus facilitating overgrowths of Candida Albicans etc.

So; does vit C alter the bowel ph and if so to what degree and what effect does this have on bacteria / yeast / fungus in the gut?

-trillian

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Post Number:#2  Post by joiv » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:13 am

Robert F. Catchart MD - http://www.orthomed.com/unprimed.htm wrote:However, the taking of the necessary doses of ascorbate is frequently difficult because of common nuisance problems in these patients. The production of much intestinal gas is frequent. Many patients with these allergies have a bowel flora that contains Candida albicans (12,13) and other gas producing organisms. Clinically, the sometimes enormous production of gas is suggestive that Candida and other organisms actually ferment ascorbate, or that ascorbate somehow accelerates their fermentation of other foods. However, some patients seem to break through a barrier where even larger doses of ascorbate reduce the amount of gas produced. Perhaps the decreased transit time associated with these large doses of ascorbic acid physically wash out much of the gas producing flora, or perhaps high enough levels of ascorbate finally inhibit fermentation. Interestingly, large amounts of intravenous sodium ascorbate in the range of 60 grams a day for a day or two, administered while the patient takes as much ascorbic acid as possible orally, may "prime" the patient in such a way that large doses of ascorbic acid are well tolerated by mouth. Measures to starve and kill intestinal Candida should be taken and when effective will reduce the intestinal gas.

zucic

Re: Vit C effect on bowel flora / ph

Post Number:#3  Post by zucic » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:11 pm

trillian wrote:My concern would be the lowering of the bowel ph to an acidic state and thus facilitating overgrowths of Candida Albicans etc.

Don't worry, ascorbic acid is very weak acid, compared to stomach acid.

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Another GREAT question!

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:18 am

trillian wrote:I am curious what thoughts / conclusions there are about the effect of large-ish doses of vitamin C on the ph of the large intestines.

My concern would be the lowering of the bowel ph to an acidic state and thus facilitating overgrowths of Candida Albicans etc.

So; does vit C alter the bowel ph and if so to what degree and what effect does this have on bacteria / yeast / fungus in the gut?

-trillian


We have such bright people reading and contributing to this forum!!

Now, Zuric is right - a lot of the acid from the stomach, one would surmise, passes into the small intestine, yet somehow the pH in the small intestine is 8.0 ?? So, either the acid is neutralized as "chum" before it leaves the stomach or there is some other mechanism triggered in the small intestine, when the acidic stomach contents arrive.

One answer (thanks to Hickey/Roberts) is that a lot of ascorbic acid gets into the blood stream via or through the stomach lining - hmmmmm Sodium-ascorbate passes through to the intestines. This may be a better explanation why Cathcart gets his ascorbate effect from ascorbic acid orally - and not "mineral ascorbates"

But lets say that Nature never intended for us to take such large doses - and that taking the generally weak acid, hydrogen ascorbate, lowers the pH of the bowel. One answer - take more as sodium ascorbate.

But for AA, lets examine the two scenarios. With meals and before (or way after) meals.

Before meals: Seems to be better absorbed - the reports we get. Even if pH of bowel is lowered - no food to digest, so what? May ben help control fungi.

With meals: What ever mechanism "neutralizes" stomach contents should work for AA too, right?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

joiv
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Post Number:#5  Post by joiv » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:05 am

Fluids from pancreas (secreted into duodenum) contains a lot of HCO3-.

This ensures optimal pH for enzymes from pancreas and protects the epithelium in duodenum from being damaged by the acidic contents of ventriculus. The passage of stomach contents into duodenum is regulated by hormones and autonomic nerves.

Factors that contribute to slower gastric emptying are:
+ increased pressure in duodenum
+ low pH
+ large amounts of fat
+ high concentration of peptides
+ high osmolarity

The hormone sekretin (don't know if that's the international name for it) stimulates the pancreas to secrete more HCO3-.


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