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 Does Vitamin C Cause Kidney Stones? 
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Does Vitamin C Cause Kidney Stones?
From the email...

I know we answered this in detail before, but I can't find the post.

Quote:
I had a question,
I've heard that taking large doses of Vitamin C cause kidney stones,
is this true?
what were they talking about?
thank you very much.
Rey


In a word, NO.

This myth is perpetuated in medical texts without any study that has ever demonstrated such an effect. This is a theoretical concern based on vitamin Cs ability to increase the body's production of oxalates.

Dr. Robert Cathcart http://www.othomed.com is the physician who has the most clinical experience with high dose replacement ascorbate and he reports no cases of kidney stones in over 20,000 patients.

Linus the Great in the book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (Pauling, 1986) points out the the pH of the urine can determine which type of stones form. They don't form in neutral urine. The most common stones form in alkaline urine, and ascorbic acid should be taken to help turn the urine more acidic and prevent these stones.

If your urine is acidic, you might want to take the sodium ascorbate form of vitamin C to raise the pH and prevent kidney stones.

A recent large study found no relationship between vitamin C and kidney stone formation, but did find that low levels of vitamin B6 is correlated with the formation of kidney stones.

Finally, animals make between 3000 and 13,000 mg of ascobic acid daily adjusted for body weight. If medicine is right, then most animals are in a lot of pain a great deal of the time as they expell all these stones :wink:

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:19 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post vitaminc/kidney stones
This myth has a hard time dying.
Although ascorbate raises oxalate in some people, it does not cause kidney stones - it actually prevents them.

The antidote for oxalate stones is about 300-400 mg of magnesium and 25 - 50 mg of B6.
I prefer Ultra-mag by Source Naturals and Albion's chelates.

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"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush


Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:31 pm
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Post Something not correct
Quote:
Linus the Great in the book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (Pauling, 1986) points out the the pH of the urine can determine which type of stones form. They don't form in neutral urine. The most common stones form in alkaline urine, and ascorbic acid should be taken to help turn the urine more acidic and prevent these stones.


Something is not correct here. If this were true, than one would suspect that vegitarians would have lot's of kidney stones since fruits and vegetables are the most alkaline loading of all foods. See Dr. Cordain's table on Acid/Base balance.

There must be some other factor involved other than urine PH (which is the primary indicator of ph load on kidneys).

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Bobber


Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:38 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Pauling's Words
I copied these words before, but it doesn't hurt to restate them.

First, on page 39 of HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (Pauling, 1986 paperback) Pauling states:

Quote:
One reason for the high intake of water is that it leads to a high volume of urine; this reduces the burden on the kidneys, which excrete a dilute urine with less work than they do a concentrated urine. That is especially important for persons with impaired kidney function.

Another reason is that with a high intake of water there is less chance that crystals of one kind or another will form out of the body fluids. Gout results from the formation of crystals of sodium urate in the joints and tendons, and pseudo-gout from the similar crystallization of calcium pyrophosphate dihydrate. Urinary calculi (kidney stones) involve the formation of masses of crystals held in a protein matrix. The crystals are calcium and magnesium phosphates and urates or, less commonly, cystine. About 1 percent of people have a tendency to form these stones. The formation can be averted by keeping the water intake high, never allowing the urine volume to drop.



Then, to this point, on page 349 he responds to bad advice to avoid vitamin C if you tend to form stones.

Quote:
"This statement is wrong. The editors might quite properly have written that very large doses of ascorbic acid should be avoided in these patients, but there is no reason for patients to refrain from taking vitamin C in large doses, because it can be taken as sodium ascorbate, which does not acidify the urine. The statement made in the Medical Letter shows that the editors of the publication simply did not understand what they were writing about.

Vitamin C is in fact the ascorbate ion. This ion carries a negative electri charge, and we are accordingly not able to take vitamin C without taking an equivalent amount of some atom that carries a positive electric charge. In ascorbic acid this atom is a hydrogen ion, H+; in sodium ascorbate it is the sodium ion, Na+; and in the calcium ascorbate it is half of a calcium ion ½ Ca++. All of these substances contain vitamin C, the ascorbate ion, and each of them also contains something else. The effects of the "something else," the hydrogen ion, sodium ion or calcium ion, should not be confused with the effects of the ascorbate ion, as was done by the editors of the Medical Letter and continues to be done by writers whose understanding is incomplete.

It is well known that there are two classes of kidney stones, and that a tendency to from them should be controlled in two quite different ways. The stones of one class, comprising nearly one half of all urinary calculi, are composed of calcium phosphate, magnesium amomonium phosphate, calcium carbonate, or mixtures of these substances. They tend to form in alkaline urine, and persons with a tendency to form there are advised to keep their urine acidic. A good way, probably the best way, to acidify the urine is to take 1 g or more of ascorbic acid each day. Ascorbic acid is used by many physicians for this purpose and for preventing infections of the urinary tract, especially infection by organisms the hydrolyze urea to form ammonia and in this way alkalize the urine and promote the formation of kidney stones of this class.

The kidney stones of the other class, which tend to form in acidic urine, are composed of calcium oxalate, uric acid or cystine. Persons with a tendency to form these stones are advised to keep their urine alkaline. This can be achieved by their taking vitamin C as sodium ascorbate or by taking ascorbic acid with just enough sodium hydrogen carbonate (ordinary baking soda) or other alkalize to neutralize it


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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:31 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Your Right - Something is Wrong
Bobber, your right. I was wrong. The idea is generally correct, but depending on the type of stones one forms, one should then attempt to change the pH of the urine to prevent this type of stone. Pauling never stated that a neutral pH prevents stones, as I inferred. Thank you.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:36 pm
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Post See previous threads
Links to the two previous threads on this subject are below:

Cardiologist Says Vitamin C Will Damage Kidney
http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194

Kidneys and Vitamin C
http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=295


Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:49 pm
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Thanks!
This is such an important issue that I think I'll create a new forum devoted to the issue of stones to make it easier for people to find.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:44 am
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