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 A few bowel tolerance questions 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:06 am
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Post A few bowel tolerance questions
Hi all, I have a few questions. First, I am trying to treat Periodontal Disease (quite severe). I've read as much about treating it with vitamin C as I can find. I have been going slowly, adding 1000mg a day. I am now up to 41000mg, and still no end in sight. BTW, my gums have improved immensely!

Since this is not on the chart, I don't know how high I'll likely go before I get to bowel tolerance. Don't know if it would be considered a bacteria or not. Just wondering if anyone has any more info on gum disease and vitamin C.

So, if I keep going and reach bowel tolerance at say, 70000mg, I am confused. How long would I take 70000mg a day? And then what... would I gradually come down, and how do I know where to stop for a maintainance dose? (Just know that if you refer me to the titration link, for some reason I don't understand the way it is written. So if you wouldn't mind translating it for me?)

I am also thinking of trying to speed up the process. I started out upping my dosage 500mg a day, but it was taking forever. Now, as I said, I take 1000 more a day. It's been around 2 months, and I may not even be halfway there! So I'm thinking to get in my 41000, then to keep adding on alot more each day. Do you recommend 1000 and hour? Or maybe 2000 an hour? I want to reach bowel tolerance before another 2 months goes by!

Thanks so much!
Nancy


Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:14 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Nancy,

There's so much research showing how safe vitamin C is that I don't understand why you want to increase your daily dosages so gradually. What's the harm in taking a lot often, until you reach bowel tolerance - if your goal is to find what that bowel tolerance level is?

[This reminds me of Dave Stouder. He talks about a topic for which he coined the term "Nutriphobia" :) ]

For me bowel tolerance was at a dose of over 90 grams ascorbic acid powder in a time of less than 8 hours. Like you, I too have periodontal disease.

I don't know of many people on this message board with such large tolerances. I tried PM'ing one member here about it but no answer yet - it seems they aren't visiting here much anymore. When your stomach starts grumbling you may be close to your bowel tolerance level.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:42 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
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So, if I keep going and reach bowel tolerance at say, 70000mg, I am confused. How long would I take 70000mg a day? And then what...


Lets put it this way - you will know!! It is unpleasant and explosive.

Anyway, to address VanCanada's point, we recommend gradual increases for various reasons, not the least of which is we never know how low one's tolerance is. (As I have mentioned, my father's tolerance was 200 mg! You are currently at 41000 mg)

But at this point, we know that you not only have a high tolerance, but we can guess that it may be 2 to 4 times more than you are currently taking, so you might be able to take something like 3000 to 4000 mg fairly often. (Any more than that at one time and you may not be able to absorb it causing a "false" bowel tolerance alarm.

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Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:16 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Periodontal disease is characterized by gingival pockets exceeding 5mm, and specific bacteria in those pockets. It often starts as a result of a loss of circulation of the tissues, such as that which occurs in smokers and diabetics. If a person is a non-smoker, or has their diabetes under control it can be treated and new bone created w/ laser periodontal therapy. It involves anesthetizing the patient, cleaning the teeth going down to the bone(blunt dissection), and using the laser to kill the bacteria in the pocket. This essentially sets up a sterile environment for new connective tissue, and consequently bone, to grow back around the teeth. There is no cutting or sewing and postop discomfort is minimal. The procedure is called LANAP or LPT for anyone interested. I would imagine taking vit c would only help it.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:54 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
You may want to also consider using CoQ10. Several studies have shown effectiveness.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T9P-47SV3D3-23&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f8e5418a1483b22ee345de0a36a06285
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC388248/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/785563?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
From another site:
Quote:
Periodontal or gum disease is very common in the United States and other Western countries. Plaque-forming bacteria that live in the mouth appear to be an important trigger for the disease, which manifests as inflamed gum tissue that may eventually result in the loss of teeth, as the teeth become loose in their bony sockets. Healing and repair of periodontal tissues requires efficient energy production, which as we have seen, required sufficient amounts of CoQ10. As early as 1971, Dr. Folkers reported that gum tissue taken from patients with periodontal disease was often deficient in CoQ10. In 1973, Dr. Folkers and Dr. Matsumura completed a double-blind study using CoQ10 for periodontal disease. They reported that it was superior to the then treatment of choice for periodontal disease. Dr. Wilkinson reported in the late 70's that at dosages of 50 to 75 mg per day often halted the deterioration of the gums with healing sometimes occurring within days. As of 1988, a total of 9 clinical studies involving 304 patients have confirmed many experimental studies with animals. CoQ10 can effectively reverse gum disease.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:37 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Thank you all for the great info. I started out going slowly because I had read it somewhere. But, as I said, I would like to speed it up. So, as per suggestion by Owen to take 3000-4000 at a time, how often? Right now I am taking about 4000 to 5000 in an hour. I don't know how much more I will be able to handle at one time. It's difficult. My stomach has sounded like a thunder storm for days now. So say I take 4000 an hour. That takes me 11 hours to be at the 46000 I took today. I'm going to run out of hours in the day soon! But I'll worry about that when I get there.

Thanks Cobraman for the info on the laser treatments. I had heard about only one woman in Seattle doing something like that. I like the sound of it, and need to do it when I have the $. And good to know about the CoQ10 also.

Really appreciate your time and knowledge sharing.


Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:19 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Quote:
Right now I am taking about 4000 to 5000 in an hour. I don't know how much more I will be able to handle at one time. It's difficult. My stomach has sounded like a thunder storm for days now. So say I take 4000 an hour. That takes me 11 hours to be at the 46000 I took today. I'm going to run out of hours in the day soon! But I'll worry about that when I get there.


Try to spread it out evenly. In my case, for years I was able to follow Linus Pauling's lead and took approximately 9 g (9000 mg) at one time twice per day, about 12 hours apart. So, you may be able to work up to that much, although taking that per hour would be pretty amazing!

Since the Hickey/Roberts ASCORBATE: The Science of Vitamin C book and its dynamic flow theory, I have been taking smaller amounts more frequently, although I still probably take about 5 g twice per day.

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:16 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
I need to ask a couple of questions about the latest happenings.
I got low on C, which I have to drive 1 1/2 hours to get (I'm in the boonies!). I had gotten up to 70 grams, and still hadn't reached bowel tolerance. I needed to space out the C I had until I could brave the snow and get to the store, so I cut down to about 25g a day for 3 days.
Ever since I stocked up, it seems that my dosage is sporadic. One day I can take 45g, the next 25, the next back up. My grumblings are louder, and I hit a blowout today at 20g or so. And even though I don't take anymore C for the day when that happens, it continues for the next 8 hours or longer.
The thing I'm unclear of, is I thought that once I reached BT, I would stay there for a while. I don't feel like I ever reached it, and now I reach it all over the place.
Is this normal?
Thank you


Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:58 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Well, it sounds like what ever issue you were dealing with, perhaps it has been resolved and your tolerance really is low now? I have never heard of stopping for a few day or lowering the dosage affecting the tolerance level as you describe. Keep us informed.

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:13 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
nlpeet wrote:
and now I reach it all over the place.
Is this normal?


In my opinion, it certainly is not normal. But I think it is comparable to what my son goes through with his mercury toxicity. My son has chronically high vitamin C bowel tolerance associated with his schizophrenia illness. I got involved with this discussion board a couple years ago when I was observing my son needed about 50 grams per day to manage his chronic constipation. Then it dawned on me that I had no idea what his ultimate bowel tolerance was. We gradually pushed it higher and higher spreading it out as much as possible. There were days that we gave him well over 150 grams per day. All of that was before we discovered a connection with toxicity from mercury amalgams. His amalgam fillings were removed and we have been detoxing mercury ever since.

His bowel tolerance, like yours, is all over the place. We think it is directly related to the level of mercury in transit from storage sites to the elimination pathways. At times after we have been chelating for a week, his bowel tolerance seems to skyrocket. But there are other times when it seems to us that all the mercury must be tied up. His symptoms decline, and his dependence upon vitamin C drops for awhile.

If I were you, I would ask the question, "what exactly is it that is causing my body's huge oxidative load?" Mercury is an obvious possibility. Cancer is another.

I am not a doctor, but I don't think it is logical to consider high vitamin C bowel tolerance as normal. Find out the cause.

Ron


Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:53 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
OK, so a follow-up question on all this. First, I was able to increase the dosage after a few days of not being able to tolerate it. Don't know why that happened, but it ended quickly. Anyway, I was climbing back up, towards the 70g mark again, and I started to get quite intense pain, high up in my stomach. This happened at the end of the day, after I had taken all the C. I'm sure it was gas, that wasn't moving, but the pain was intense!

In the meantime, I am staying with a friend, and sharing a room, :wink: so....I had to cut down on the C, before I ever reached bowel tolerance. I have been taking about 24g until I am alone again.

I have had a molar that has had issues in the past. I recently developed an abscess on that tooth. From research, it sounds like I have an infected tooth.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there something I could do that would help to ease the stomach pain, so I can go past 70g? I have spread out the dosages; I have tried food, and it doesn't seem to help. I read something about baking soda, but am unsure.
2. Has anyone been able to treat an infected tooth by taking C?
3. If so, is there any data anywhere as to the usual bowel tolerance level that someone reaches with an infected tooth?

I'm sure this is why I was going up to such high levels. This infection has probably been there, a bit unnoticeable, until recently.

I do not want to have a root canal, or get this tooth pulled!

Thank you for this forum.


Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:54 pm
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Quote:
So, my questions are:

1. Is there something I could do that would help to ease the stomach pain, so I can go past 70g? I have spread out the dosages; I have tried food, and it doesn't seem to help. I read something about baking soda, but am unsure.


I forget the technical name, perhaps some kind of "hernia" but you probably have a lesion either at the bottom of your esophagus or stomach valve, and unlike the stomach cells, the cells around this lesion does not react well to the acid in high dosage ascorbic acid. So yes, baking soda is a good idea. I have something like this and now take my ascorbic acid with baking soda, and I will start taking our new sodium ascorbate when it is available (soon :D )

Quote:
2. Has anyone been able to treat an infected tooth by taking C?


Dr. Levy has made the analogy that in his experience, trying to use vitamin C to counteract most dental toxicity is like trying to use a blow dryer to dry up a small river or stream. You might try H2O2. Although I have been told it can be hard to reach the infection, I would gargle with a mouthwash to which I have added some 3% hydrogen peroxide.

Quote:
3. If so, is there any data anywhere as to the usual bowel tolerance level that someone reaches with an infected tooth?


I'm sure this is why I was going up to such high levels. This infection has probably been there, a bit unnoticeable, until recently.

I do not want to have a root canal, or get this tooth pulled!


Unknown and very likely your tolerance is connected to the infection. We agree on the root canal!
[/quote]

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Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Last August I had an abscess on a lower wisdom tooth. Doc gave me a prescription for penicillin and a date for extraction. Got the antibiotic and took it along with some echinacea in addition to my usual vitamin C and comprehensive multi-nutrient formula (LEF Mix). I also would floss with a bit of hydrogen peroxide held in my mouth to work it a bit deeper into the gum.

After half a course of penicillin (about 20 500mg tablets) abscess was completely gone. Six months later went back for regular check up / cleaning and had no issues (and all my original teeth intact :wink: ).


Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:27 am
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Post Re: A few bowel tolerance questions
Lemonaid wrote:
Last August I had an abscess on a lower wisdom tooth. Doc gave me a prescription for penicillin and a date for extraction. Got the antibiotic and took it along with some echinacea in addition to my usual vitamin C and comprehensive multi-nutrient formula (LEF Mix). I also would floss with a bit of hydrogen peroxide held in my mouth to work it a bit deeper into the gum.

After half a course of penicillin (about 20 500mg tablets) abscess was completely gone. Six months later went back for regular check up / cleaning and had no issues (and all my original teeth intact :wink: ).

Not unusual. Most times extraction of wisdom teeth is prophylactic. An infection of the gingiva(gum) surrounding the wisdom tooth is annoying and can be painful, but usually resolved w/ a course of antibiotics and more thorough home care. If someone is past age 25 little is gained from extraction. Extract only if there are no other options(and root canal is usually not even an option due to lack of working space).


Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:33 pm
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