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 Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me 
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
thanks for the tip on looking up recipes for "homemade Lypo-C" on the forum- The munufactored one is very expensive at 2 packets / day. I looked on my multivitamins (PureCaps Nutrient 950 without copper or iron) and it does have iodine (potassium) at 200 mcg, magnesium at 200 mg ( I take an extra 300 on top of this), selinium 200mcg, plus the B vitamins. I just started taking these about 2 months ago.


Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Hello, I finally found the post of another person that was healthy with high ( 50-60gms) BT. Under "Bowel Tolerance" there is a "topic Vit C how often" and the person posting was Clark DeBona who posted this on 5/10/06 at 6:43pm. So it seems there are others indeed with insanely high BT that are healthy. As I have said I do exercise and I understand it could increase the BT, but to 60? Time will tell.........


Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:48 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
cindylouwho wrote:
do you also have a high BT? Are you taking that amount every day even without illness? ... Thanks for all responses and would love to know there are heathy people out there with high BT too!
Hi cindylouwho,
I tested my bowel tolerance once and will post that story for a 2nd time when I find it. (It's frustrating when your posts get deleted due to a poor choice of bulletin board settings and you have to waste valuable time searching dusty old HDD's to find them again.)

There's not a lot of data to show whether or not it's a good idea for healthy people to take high doses of vitamin C. Pauling, Cathcart, and Klenner didn't leave us with any guidelines once we go past 18 grams daily. Not only would it be physically inconvenient and questionable from a financial viewpoint, but you would be acting as both the mad scientist and the guinea pig simultaneously. Might be a good idea, might not. If anyone has evidence there would be no risk from self-induced acidosis then I'm all ears. Until then, why bet your life on such a little tested hypothesis?

As far as my research shows the top 5 bowel tolerance levels reached by "healthy" folks on this forum are: a New Zealander [30 grams], two other forum members (no longer posting here apparently) - (quickstep [50 grams] and les [60 grams], you [61 grams], and me [97 grams].

The thread regarding 'les' and the New Zealander can be found here:
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=627

And you may be interested in these quotes from the thread regarding quickstep:
On March 11, 2006 quickstep wrote:
Looking at the chart for "bowel tolerance" http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm, I have yet to achieve it after consuming 140 grams. I've tried to deduce why I'm not achieving bowel tolerance yet, does anyone have a recommendation on how to best approach this?

First, I have been consuming 20g of ascorbic acid for 1 month and decided to try achieving "bowel tolerance"

I increased my dosage to 100g in one day without luck, so over the next 6 days I increased to 125g. I dropped the dose to 20g daily again, waited a week and jumped up to about 140g in one day. No results.

I've tried two different brands (twin labs & NOW) of pure ascorbic acid. I eat very healthy, exercising daily, I'm in my upper 20's. Although, I do have environmental (dust, pollen) and food allergies (wheat - gluten, yeast), but could this cause a tolerance so high?

Consuming over 100g daily seems inconvenient and causes some excessive gas at times.
On March 31, 2006 quickstep wrote:
I started taking Ascorbic Acid in January 20grams per day for 2 months (I purchase online from http://www.bulknutrition.com or locally Seattle Super Supplements). After some research - thank goodness for this forum - I concluded I needed to achieve a higher dose to BT.

The strange thing is, as I increased to 100g+ for several days my gas level was about the same as when I was taking 20g. Maybe a little more bloating, but never to BT. I have now tried 5 different brands, all ascorbic acid, 2 powers and 3 pill form. Maybe it is a coincidence that I was just getting sick or my allergies kicking in due to the change in season, or other stresses.

I've been in an unsick mode for a little while now taking 50g per day and I'm considering getting another IgE allergy test, plus a blood test by a local doctor.
-Both quotes above are from a thread in Bowel Tolerance subforum entitled 'How high should I go to achieve bowel tolerance?'http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=341&start=0


Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:01 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
well, as I said time will tell! Seems shortly after I posted my last post here, I detected a lymph node enlarged on my neck. My internist thought it was most likely due to a really bad virus I had this past winter. It could have been enlarged for awhile and I only noticed it when I turned my head to the same side as the enlarged lymph node. I went to my acupuncturist a few times as well, and it has decreased somewhat in size- it was 2 cm ( had an ultrasound done), it is nonpainful but freely moveable. I hesitate to have a needle biopsy since it is going down in size.....it is very close to my carotid artery:). I plan on a recheck with the internist and possibly a visit to the ENT and remeasure of the node via ultrasound. I also had bloodwork done, which was all normal and the same as bloodwork done last fall for a routine physical. If the node has not decreased or has increased from ultrasound measurements, I will proceed with the biopsy. So, as far as the BT, well it went down to 55, then 40 and seems a bit spurious, but going down. Some days, I can not risk being at my BT for social reasons! So, all and all it is going down. The doc said it is probably a drainage problem with the lymph node and I have since talked with people who said they had the same thing after a bad cold or virus and it can take many months. In the meantime, my BT is going down and no other lymph nodes are palpable. I am taking this as a good sign. It is interesting that only one person with the high BT, Vancanada, is still noting their high BT. Maybe the others did have something wrong and never came back to let the forum know. I was floored that a virus could do this 6-8 wks after it was over. Thanks so much for checking the old posts for the high BT, "healthy" folks - guess I am off that list!


Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:49 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
cindylouwho wrote:
It is interesting that only one person with the high BT, Vancanada, is still noting their high BT. Maybe the others did have something wrong and never came back to let the forum know.
It was a one-time test. As a case study I don't imagine it's worth much to other people because it had an N=1.
But that reminds me. I should do a follow-up test and see where I stand now.


Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:19 pm
Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
cindylouwho wrote:
...I would love to know if there are folks out there ingesting large amounts of V-C for maintence - well above the norm that truely are healthy. It would be interesting to know.
In a since deleted thread from 2009 I, VanCanada wrote:
It might help if I mention I'm in my early 40's, male, I experience tinnitus, my memory has gotten worse, I'm clumsy sometimes, I get asthma sometimes, cold extremeties... relatively minor things.... (For what's it's worth, I would trace these to having mercury poisoning from amalgam tooth fillings.)

In June 2009 I did my first bowel tolerance test. This test involved 100% ascorbic acid powder/no bioflavonoids. My goal was to see how much ascorbic acid I needed to consume orally before loose stools occurred. I started my first AA oral dose at 7 am. My doses were usually 7.9 g (a level tablespoon) usually every 20 minutes. I had the urge to defecate starting at ~8 am after ~22 grams. Nothing happened while sitting on the toilet so I kept the oral intake experiment going. My stomach was rumbling and feeling upset after ~10 am (79 grams). I pushed on --- er, uhhh :) ha ha ha, I mean I continued taking the AA powder. Several times I would feel the urge, I would go sit on the toilet, but nothing happened. The last few intakes seemed to taste more and more sour, more unpleasant, as if my body was throwing up, err, I mean Raising up :) some sort of surrender flag. The last intake was at 10:50 am. The total intake was 97 grams. I had had enough.

Now in my writing I'm getting more serious. I'm not joking around anymore.
My goal of loose stools was attained at 12:15 pm, and then at 1:00 pm, and then again at 1:50 pm. At 2:20 pm I felt a bit dizzy and had a final big, liquid BM.

{...I took 600 mg of sustained release N-acetyl-cysteine at 10:05am. I took no food or other supplements until after 2:20 pm}

END of experiment
-----------------

Some followup:

One day in July (2009) I tried 45 grams in 6 hours but only experienced a bit of flatulence. The next day I took 61 grams in 9 hours and experienced some stomach rumbling after 42 grams that day. No loose stools either day. I'm now taking 5 to 8 grams AA (in tablet form) and 2 g lysine daily, etc.


Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:45 pm
Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I've now done a followup test of my bowel tolerance (using ascorbic acid powder) and will posting details shortly. It was a lot less than than my 2009 test but still way above the population average. I had all amalgam fillings removed in the Fall of 2009. Maybe that was a major or minor factor in my reduced vitamin C bowel tolerance.

Since Owen posted the following in another thread, I think my next bowel tolerance test will include me taking some Betaine Hydrochloride and see what effect if any that might have on my bowel tolerance. Owen's theory would predict my bowel tolerance would decrease, no?
ofonorow wrote:
And yes, research and logic both support the notion that low stomach acid interferes with the absorption of ascorbic acid (vitamin C).


Mon May 16, 2011 4:07 pm
Post May 2011 Bowel Tolerance test
Here are the details of my May 2011 vitamin C bowel tolerance test:
6 oral doses of approximately 8.3 grams ascorbic acid powder each, taken approximately 45 minutes apart. A total of 49.8 grams AA powder taken in a time of 4 hours 8 minutes between the first dose and the first bowel movement.

Dose 1, 7.9 grams ascorbic acid powder. Dose 2, 8.4 grams, 43 mins after 1st dose. 40 minutes later, feeling slightly nauseous, feeling of throwing up starting to commence, but did not throw up or even have this nauseous feeling again after this. (With hindsight my dosages were too large for performing a good test of daily tolerance, I probably should have stopped at my second dose and continued another day at a smaller dose, or else continued on with decreased dosing, but I continued with the experiment...) Dose 3, 8.5 grams, 45 mins after 2nd. Dose 4, 8.3 g, 45 minutes later. 10 minutes after dose 4, slight gurgling in my bowels. Dose 5, 8.4 g, 45 mins after dose 4. Ate a small snack 30 minutes after dose 5. Dose 6, 8.3 g, 45 mins after dose 5. 25 minutes after dose 6 I had the 1st of 5 bowel movements (BM). BM 1 = watery stools. 35 minutes later, BM 2 = watery. 38 minutes later, BM 3 = watery. 112 minutes later, BM 4 = big, watery, time-consuming. 60 minutes later, BM 5 (final BM of the day) = smaller, watery.
END of experiement.
______________________________________________

Comments: For those of you testing your bowel tolerance I would limit my intake to no more than 2 grams per individual dose, and would adjust one's daily total dose by increasing (or decreasing) the dosing frequency. I could never understand why I had such a large tolerance for vitamin C compared to others. If theory is correct then I should be quite ill, but subjectively I'm not. The oxidative stress from my chronic exposure to mercury is one possible explanation. (And amalgam fillings' effect on one's vitamin C bowel tolerance should IMO be explored more fully using scientific studies.) Mercury exposure was my one and only hypothesis. And one might have cause for worry, based on Cathcart's table/chart and the Pauling/Rath theory. Might I have cancer or some other very serious disease even though I have no pain, discomfort or other obvious symptoms, based solely on my high bowel tolerance level? You see, I was basically free of symptoms. That is, until now. Some curious sign appeared that makes me suspect I have another chronic condition - a condition that, according to the "Professional Guide to Diseases" "usually produces no symptoms" and that "doesn't cause symptoms". I'll keep you hanging about what that is until I can be checked by a health care provider (or until someone guesses which medical condition I'm referring to). We'll see if my current self-diagnosis matches the professional diagnosis and whether or not the Pauling/Rath theory receives further confirmation (or lack of disproof to be exact, which is what science is about) in my case or not. It's too bad some of the other forum members mentioned in this thread did not continue posting about their use of vitamin C and their health status.


Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
In light of the last posting, I did want to give you my health status. I apparently have a reactive lymph node in my neck from a prior virus this past winter ( which happens to be the first winter in maybe 20 yrs that I got a flu vaccine). I did have a contrast CT scan of my neck, as well as bloodwork and thyroid tests that were all normal. The CT scan showed a mildly enlarged lymph node that did decrease by a few millimeters since the ultrasound scan of my neck in late March. I have routinely taken approximately 10 gms of V-C a day without any intolerence problems. I have yet to retest my tolerence at this point since the lymph node is still a bit enlarged. The ENT doc did say it could stay enlarged indefinitely and be the new normal. I did have a BT of 60 + this past winter and I will test at some point, but it does just cause me to worry without finding a cause. So, at some point I will recheck my BT, but for now I am taking a break from worrying about if there is some "silent" cancer lurking within. There would be realisticly nothing to do at this point about a high BT except to note it and see if it has gone up or down as a trend. For Van Canada, I thought yours was higher in the past, so maybe this is an improvement.


Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
cindylouwho wrote:
My questions concern bowel tolerance, but also the necessity of taking this dose daily. I am a healthy 110# woman and I finally, after 1 month got to BT at 61 gms. It was a very uncomfortable month once I hit 40 gms. No matter what form of VC I took - capsules or powder, I felt bloated and full. I tried with food, without food, in OJ, capsules + powder + chewable.....all of it made me feel bad. I tapered myself down to 20 gms a day and that works. My question, I simple terms, is how can something that is suppose to be so good, make me feel so bad. From a fluid standpoint, I was ingesting water all the time to get 61 gms in. This is a lot for a small person that is and has been well all her life. Does BT really correlate with an illness. I sure feel a lot better NOW than when I was consuming so much. Thanks!


Do you mega dose on empty stomach first thing in the morning ?
This will dramatically reduce your bowel tolerance.

Also, you can feel bloated because of to much water. It is NOT good to drink ton of water.


Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
hi Lunar, I had exactly the same situation as you and it was 61 gms as well. I am the same weight, 110# and very healthy. I took the 61 gms over the coarse of the day, but that is a lot of water for a small person AND because I was so full of water I could not eat as much as normal- not good in my mind. I just settled on 15-20 gms per day as maintaince.....arbitrary to some degree. I knew Linus Pauling was taking 18-20 gms daily and that is what I decided. Not very scientific, but there it is.


Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:12 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
But did you try to go to bowel tolerance on an empty stomach first thing in the morning ?


Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:22 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
No, I took 61 gms throughout the day......still hard to do. I think there have been prior discussions about dose tolerance ( say how much VC taken in 1-2 hrs) vs bowel tolerence, which from my understanding is how much one can tolerate by taking the vit C all day long. It would be of some importance when your BT is high to know the dose tolerence so you do not confuse that with BT. I hope I am makeing sense for you!


Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:49 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Just take lipospheric C, and you will have no problems. 6g will be all you need.


Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Quote:
6g will be all you need.


Again M, what are you basing the 6 Pkt advice on? If people have huge and varying requirements for vitamin C depending on the stress of their illness, (see: orthomed.com/titrate.htm) how could 6 packets of Lypo-C be correct for everyone, especially those with at least 61 g normal C bowel tolerance? Or are you guessing that those with 60 g BT for ordinary C would get the same "bang" with 6 Lypo-C? No doubt they would benefit and it is easier, but I just wonder how you came up with this number?

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Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:54 am
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