Discussion with Sally Fallon

What is vitamin C? Is there such a thing as a vitamin C complex? Why do so many people now believe in the complex?

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Post Number:#16  Post by Dottore » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:48 am

Interesting how the terminology has changed in this. What used to be called "natural" vs "synthetic" is now called C-complex against synthetic.
Perhaps it is the origin of synthetic vitamins from coal tar that disturbs their minds.
Coal tar, needless to say is derived from.....you guessed it and thus as natural as Nature deemed necessary.

The view about this C-complex thing is widespread, it is often mentioned alongside the comment that one cannot overdose on Vitamin A as long as it's "natural".


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Re: Discussion with Sally Fallon

Post Number:#17  Post by majkinetor » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:47 am

I still have to read entire nobel lecture, but:

Albert wrote:This colleague himself suffered from a serious haemorrhagic diathesis. Since I still did not have enough of this crystalline substance at my disposal then, I sent him paprikas. My colleague was cured. But later we tried in vain to obtain the same therapeutic effect with vitamin C."

wrong diagnosis wrote:Hemorrhagic diathesis: Spontaneous or near spontaneous bleeding caused by a defect in clotting mechanisms (BLOOD COAGULATION DISORDERS) or another abnormality causing a structural flaw in the blood vessels (VASCULAR HEMOSTATIC DISORDERS).

I was recently reading parts of the book "Vitamin K in health & disease" and I remember that vitamin K stops hemorrhage as it is clotting factor (hence its name, from Germain Koagulationsvitamin). Paprika indeed contains some of the Vitamin K - according to alpha, paprika contains 1.7 ug of it. Although its not much, perhaps synergistic effect with Vitamin C and P can explain how it did happen. In any way the healing effect might not have anything to do with so called vitamin C complex but with complex of adequate micronutritients (C,P,K ....). So, neither C variant can cure haemorrhagic diathesis by itself but in combination with other vitamins contained in paprika that are not part of vitamin C complex but just part of paprika vitamin complex (personal opinion).

Also its well known that Linus and Albert were friends so I guess this topic came up at one time. Linus stated, AFAIK, that synthetic Vitamin C is the same as "natural".

On survivediabetes the author also mentions vitamin C complex in false citation :
survivediabetes wrote:
Albert wrote:...My colleague was cured. But later we tried in vain to obtain the same therapeutic effect with pure vitamin C. the ascorbic acid complex which includes vitamin P B the bioflavonoids B is necessary to do that.

Incredibly, by 1937, Szent-Gyögyi had deduced that the vitamin C complex (not just vitamin C) neutralizes the oxygen free radical (a term not yet invented!) in two stages:
Ascorbic acid oxidase oxidizes [ascorbic] acid with oxygen to reversible dehydro-ascorbic acid, whereby the oxygen unites with the two labile H-atoms from the acid to form hydrogen peroxide. This peroxide reacts with peroxidase and oxidizes a second molecule of ascorbic acid. Both these molecules of dehydro-ascorbic acid again take up hydrogen from the foodstuff .
But peroxidase does not oxidize ascorbic acid directly. I succeeded in showing that another substance is interposed between the two, which belongs to the large group of yellow, water-soluble Y plant dyes (flavone, flavonol, flavanone). Here the peroxidase oxidizes [the flavon, the bioflavonoid] which then oxidizes the ascorbic acid directly, taking up both its H-atoms. (ibid)

Again, it seems to me there is a confusion here between vitamin C complex and bunch of vitamins in synergetic action.

While there might be a difference, its clear that synthetic C version works from works of others (Levy, Cathart etc.). It might not be that potent tho but high dosage compensates. So far, I think that best advice comes from doctoryourself:

doctoryourself wrote:My recommendation? When you are sick, eat as many oranges (and other vitamin-C rich fruits) as you can, while you also take tens of thousands of milligrams of cheap, supplemental ascorbic acid vitamin C.More ...

About artery thickening paper, there is another paper describing exactly the opposite, by Dr. Paul Wand, M.D., Neurologist. The experiment was repeated and conclusion was diametral:

Dr. Paul Wand wrote:Our direct observation, based on carotid ultrasound testing, show that very high vitamin C supplement users have remarkably healthy carotid arteries. When adjusted for other factors such as age, elevated homocysteine, LDL cholesterol and glucose, these very high vitamin C takers as a group appear to have less carotid pathology than the general population. A review of previously published findings indicates that consuming a wide variety of very high potency dietary supplements, combined with blood screening to monitor cholesterol, homocysteine, glucose, iron and other atherogenic risk factors, confers a significant protective effect against the development of carotid artery disease.

There is also comparison between 2 projects.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n24.shtml wrote:Robert Cathcart with experience on over 25,000 patients since 1969 has seen no cases of heart disease developing in patients who did not have any when first seen. He added that the thickening of the vessel walls, if true, indicates that the thinning that occurs with age is reversed. . .

About safety of megadoses of Vitamin C
http://www.survivediabetes.com wrote:A 1995 Hoffman LaRoche review which pronounced vitamin C safe included several studies in which up to 10 grams were taken each day for 3 years.

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