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 Homemade Lypo C 
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
In the following attempts I dissolved in a bid more water (170 ml), so less lecithin settled at the bottom of the mixture.

The main difference I felt since I started taking self-made liposomal encapsulated vitamin C is, that I didn't get a flush from the Niacin taken afterwards anymore (discondinued 3 months ago and now raising it slowly again, presently at 700 mg).

Because of a bit of overenthusiam I increased right away the daily total from 43 to 52 grams ascorbic acid (including the 12 g of selfmade lipo-C mixture). This caused liquid stools the following day, but only after regular Vitamin C and many hours away from the liposomal kind. Therefore I decreased and increase at a slower pace again.

I encountered difficulties in falling asleep by taking the lipo-C mix for three days in the evening, which isn't a problem for me otherwise at all. Therefore I take it in the morning instead and this problem has stopped.

pamojja wrote:
Titrating for almost 3 weeks now, and not experiencing any perceivable easing as other seem to have - for example of my always clogged nose - makes me curious if it will make a difference this way.
Interestingly, I got a running nose with some sneezing each day an hour or two - but no clearing yet - by titrating and testing it with the self-made lipo-C mixture for 5 days now.

Does anyone else has experience with titrating ascorbic acid and adding some original Lypo-SphericTM Vitamin C?

Because if liposomal C would be even superior to intravenous vit C - one could expect that it would raise the bowel tolerance much more and beyond the encapsulated amount..


Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:06 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Hi all,

Sorry, I've been busy and unable to follow up as quickly as I would have liked, but it's good to see that others are trying their hand at the home made lypo C. I want to report some of the things that I have done and some of the results.

I am using the larger 160 watt harbor freight US unit for these experiments. I did finally get a chance to use the granular lecithin, and it is MUCH less messy than the liquid form. Much more highly recommended just from the stand point of clean up. That being said, the final product did not seem to be any different than from when I used the liquid lecithin.

during this last round of experimentation, I attempted to use a small pyrex bowl to mix the ingredients, but apparently the thick bottom decreased the strength of the soundwaves and attempts at dissolving the ingredients were impaired. I went back to using the flask which has much thinner walls and allowed much more of the US soundwaves through. I started with half a cup of distilled water into which I added 1 tablespoon of AA that dissolved completely. The next step was to add the granules of lecithin. Since there were reports of excess undissolved lecithin, I decided to start with 1 tablespoon. If that dissolved completely, then I would move on to add more. The first tablespoon did not totally dissolve, so I just left it at at that. I stirred the solution for 6-8 minutes, until there was no more evidence of the lecithin dissolving any further.

I was interested in testing the batch, but I wasn't really convinced with the foam height method because it seemed to me that the height of the foam would be more a function of the surface tension of the liquid than the amount of AA dissolved. In other words, since the lecithin was dissolved into the water, it could increase the surface tension of the water, with higher tension, you would have more bubbles and less of the popping, developing more height in the glass. However, what did occur to me was that the bubbles were a byproduct of the reaction, so if I could measure the amount of GAS that was released, that would be a better indicator of how much AA was interacting with the baking soda. To measure the amount of gas released from the home made lypo, I created another batch of 1 table spoon dissolved into a 1/2 cup of water. I then poured equal amounts of aa/water only and lypo c into two different test tubes. I then took a balloon, washed it out, and added 3 tablespoons of water with dissolved baking soda. I carefully placed the lip of the balloon around the mouth of the test tube, then inverted the balloon so the baking soda would fall into the test tube and watched the balloon inflate. I started with the plain AA in water. This gave me my reference point. I then did the same thing with the lypo C test tube reusing the same balloon to make sure the same amount of elastic resistance was present in both experiments. The lypo C mixture also inflated the balloon, but to a lesser degree. I would estimate that the balloon inflated to about 70%-75% of the volume of the AA only mixture. I take this to mean that there was some encapsulation of the AA. Was it 25%? I don't know, I'm not sure if there is a linear relationship that we can extrapolate from, but I suppose some encapsulation is good.

So far, the home made lypo C encapsulation liquid has seemed to pass the bowel tolerance test and the baking soda reaction test. It also seems that others are having similar results. But this leaves me with a few questions.

1) Has anyone found the home made lypo C to provide greater benefits than regular oral AA?

2) Does anyone have any personal experience with the commercial Lypo C that they can compare with the home made version?

3) Does someone have personal experience with the commercial version of Lypo C that can attest to its being superior to regular oral AA or even IV C? (I know Levy states that it is, but he is a paid consultant and some personal feedback from some forum users would be nice.)

I think the next step in the process might be to devise a way to separate the encapsulated C from the AA water, a purification step, and then return the unencapsulated portion for a second go through on the machine.

also, another thought that has occurred to me is that I may need to add more lecithin to the mixture since it is very likely only a portion of the lecithin is able to form the lypo c and the portion that is not dissolving doesn't even form the lyposomal spheres. Can someone come up with a purification process?


Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:35 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Cool to be getting all this feed back. Before long we will have the recipe perfected. (Hope, Hope).

I made my 2nd batch today. This time I simply used room temperature distilled water and tried to mix the lecithin granules much more toughly prior to running the ultrasonic cleaner. To accomplish this I got a large jar with a sealing lid to mix the lecithin granules with distilled water. Instead of stirring with a straw I literally shook the jar to dissolve the granules. I accomplished complete dissolving of all granules in five minutes or less.

Than I took the 1/2 cup of distilled water with VCF C dissolved and combined with the big jar of lecithin solution together in that big jar and agitated/shook for just a few seconds, than poured the total solution (1 & 1/2 cups) into the small Harbor Freight UC and turned it on.

The solution immediate bubbled pretty good so I closed the lid. About a minute into the run I opened the lid and gave a brief stir. I continued in this opening and closing lid mode through 3 cycles.

The liposomal C is now in the refrigerator waiting to see if it settles as before. In the morning I'll again do the 4 oz./ bicarbonate of soda test and see if it's a different outcome than last try.

One observation. The solution has been sitting in the fridge for about 4 hours and has yet to show any signs of settling. Could be the complete dissolving of the lecithin prior is the key or maybe that early agitation screwed things up. Guess I'll no more when I run the test in the morning.

Good Luck & Good Health,

Del


Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I think dissolving the lecithin first should be very beneficial. I'll try that in the run and see how big the balloon gets.


Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Hi jaamzg and Del,

jaamzg wrote:
.. I started with half a cup of distilled water into which I added 1 tablespoon of AA that dissolved completely. The next step was to add the granules of lecithin. Since there were reports of excess undissolved lecithin, I decided to start with 1 tablespoon. If that dissolved completely, then I would move on to add more. The first tablespoon did not totally dissolve, so I just left it at at that...

Just yesterday I tried to simplify the process too, by dissolving 12 gram of ascorbic acid into 240 ml of distilled water, and next dissolving 16 grams of lecithin into this mixture. However, this way the lecithin desolved least and a many times greater part of granules remained undesolved than when dissolved in water separately. The acidity or something seems to really hinder the dissolving of lecithin.

Del wrote:
This time I simply used room temperature distilled water and tried to mix the lecithin granules much more toughly prior to running the ultrasonic cleaner. To accomplish this I got a large jar with a sealing lid to mix the lecithin granules with distilled water. Instead of stirring with a straw I literally shook the jar to dissolve the granules. I accomplished complete dissolving of all granules in five minutes or less.

Great idea! Since the complete dissolving of granules provides the highest possible percentage of Phosphatidyl-Choline to encapsulate the Vitamin C. Also letting it soak and stirring it from time to time - stirring in total at least for 10 minutes - helps for better dissolution. However, shaking for only 5 minutes seems a much better way..

jaamzg wrote:
.. also, another thought that has occurred to me is that I may need to add more lecithin to the mixture since it is very likely only a portion of the lecithin is able to form the lypo c and the portion that is not dissolving doesn't even form the lyposomal spheres. Can someone come up with a purification process?

As far as I understood only the 23% Phosphatidyl-Choline portion of granular lecithin seems to encapsule the AA. By using much more concentrated Phosphatidyl-Choline you would get much more concentrated Lypo-C. However, I don't believe this extra effort or additional costs are in any relation to the effect: having a much more concentrated Lypo-C mixture vs. a more voluminous mixture with some uncapsulated Vit C and lecithin.

jaamzg wrote:
1) Has anyone found the home made lypo C to provide greater benefits than regular oral AA?
Does this mean that you haven't subjectively felt any difference to oral C? - How about you, Del?

As I already noted, I get quite strong flushes while increasing Niacin. Usually I feel intense heat and tingling sensations mainly in my head and in the upper body; my arms, throad and sometimes more parts of my body turn red, and I get some strange pressure in my ears - which usually all eases after 20 minutes.

Titrating upto 45 grams of Vit C to my bowel tolerance for more than 2 weeks didn't change anything about that.
But since I started to add the 12 gram of self-made lypo-C mixtures Niacin flushes have completely ceased if taken after the lypo-C. And are much more milder if taken a half day apart.

To me this is a really big change to regular oral ascorbic acid. But maybe this is only so evitent for myself - with the easing of impressive Niacin flushes..

jaamzg wrote:
2) Does anyone have any personal experience with the commercial Lypo C that they can compare with the home made version?

3) Does someone have personal experience with the commercial version of Lypo C that can attest to its being superior to regular oral AA or even IV C? (I know Levy states that it is, but he is a paid consultant and some personal feedback from some forum users would be nice.)

To which I would like to append my former question again:
pamojja wrote:
4) Does anyone else has experience with titrating ascorbic acid and adding some original Lypo-SphericTM Vitamin C?

Kind Regards..


Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
jaamzg,

I'm fortunate to be in remission so my normal vitamin C intake has been a 10 gram maintenance or preventative dose, far below my bowel tolerance of 32 g. So I have been taking four oz. of homemade liposomal (contains 4 grams VCF) daily with the belief that's got to be more than equivalent to my regular maintenance dose.

I haven't anything objective to say there is more bang for the buck other than my gut. If my gut didn't tell me there was something good to come from this effort I would not be investing my time.

Having never taken the commercial liposomal C I can't offer any reference or information.

Keep us posted on your efforts.

Good Luck & Good Health,

Del


Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Hi Del and Pamojja,

Based on your recommendations, I started first dissolving the lecithin granules into distilled water. It was on a small scale, in one of the test tubes. It was about 2 1/2 tablespoons of water with 1 teaspoon of lecithin. I put this into the US and stirred for about 3 or 4 minutes and was able to get the lecithin to completely dissolve (to my amazement). To this, I added 1 teaspoon of AA crystals, NOT premixing or predissolving in water. I then stirred this in the US for another 4 to 5 minutes and the AA completely dissolved into the solution. This is the first time that the mix has been totally homogenized with consistent color and no left over lecithin floating around. The mixture also does not appear like it will separate.

So, this has been a great step forward. Of course, the ultimate question, how much AA encapsulation? I made a second batch of 2 1/2 tablespoons of water with 1 teaspoon of AA. The AA/water mixture tastes more acidic than the lecithin/AA/water mixture. I was going to do the bicarbonate/balloon test, but I'm just not satisfied that the results are as accurate as I would like since there has to be a certain amount of pressure generated to inflate the balloon and I'm really looking to measure more of the volume of gas generated. Maybe I'll look into picking up some PH strips?

At any rate, this iteration of the experiment has yielded the most homogenized and consistent looking batch of attempted lypo to date.

Pamojja:

I haven't had time to mix lypo c on a daily basis and did not have the inclination since the results I was getting were not to my liking. I originally started to play with this idea based on the upcoming flu season and the fear mongering being put forth about the swine flu. Without going to far off on a different tangent, I was concerned about maybe a vitamin c shortage (similar to what occurred in april/may after the first swine flu reports came out) and was looking for a way to make the vitamin C I had last longer and be more effective.

With that being said, if I could mix a 4 day to a week supply at a time, I might consider doing that, but to mix a small batch on a daily basis is a bit tedious for me. So, the only real subjective feedback I have are the few batches I have tried along the way. I also don't do the C to bowl tolerance levels unless I'm sick, so I don't really have a reference point to work from on that, either. Maybe I'll try making a larger batch and see how it works out over the course of a week or so.

I would still like to hear from someone's personal use of the commercial lypo c vs their use of regular AA and/or it's superior efficacy.


Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:29 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Well, if Brook's test is accurate the complete mixing of letichin with distilled water prior to combining with the Vitamin C solution is the key. (I accomplished this by shaking/agitating the distilled water/letichin solution in a sealable quart jar - see above post.)

Observation: The batch I made last night (my last post above) did not separate at all. It was just as consistent in color and texture this morning as it was when I poured it from the ultrasonic cleaner yesterday afternoon.

I mixed the 1/4 teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda in 1 oz. of distilled water as directed in Brook's post(s) and slowly poured the soda mixture into 4 oz. of the homemade liposomal C in a 12 ounce straight walled glass. (In my previous batch and test it bubbled up an inch or so.) This time there was just a thin layer of bubbles on the top of the liposomal. I would be hard pressed to say it was 1/8th inch.

So, assuming Brooks science is correct this batch is in excess of 75% efficient encapsulation.


Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:07 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Del wrote:
So, assuming Brooks science is correct this batch is in excess of 75% efficient encapsulation.
That's really good news, Del.
jaamzg wrote:
.. I started first dissolving the lecithin granules into distilled water. It was on a small scale, in one of the test tubes. It was about 2 1/2 tablespoons of water with 1 teaspoon of lecithin. I put this into the US and stirred for about 3 or 4 minutes and was able to get the lecithin to completely dissolve (to my amazement). To this, I added 1 teaspoon of AA crystals, NOT premixing or predissolving in water. I then stirred this in the US for another 4 to 5 minutes and the AA completely dissolved into the solution. This is the first time that the mix has been totally homogenized with consistent color and no left over lecithin floating around. The mixture also does not appear like it will separate.
I thought about dissolving the lecithin in the UC first too, however, this might cause the liposomal spheres to encapulate the water only, where any additional ascorbic acid wouldn't have a change to enter anymore.. :?:


Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:27 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Del,

Glad to hear that you had no separation and very little reaction with your second batch. It looks like that is the way to go. Could you please repost your quantities used and your exact steps. I have a good idea, but I'm not sure about the amount of lecithin you added to your cup of water.

Pamojja,

You have a good point about the encapsulation of non AA water. I had thought about that and thought that the US waves would collapse and reform new spheres, but maybe the spheres that were formed are to small to be reaffected by the US waves. I will try the bottle shake method next to see what results I get.

As a follow up to my last batch, this morning there was some mild separation, I would say about 20% of the mixture separated out to just liquid lecithin, it looked like a small layer of oil sitting on top. I drank the mixture and, even though it was only 4 grams, did experience an unexpected head rush, mild, but noticeable. I don't believe I have ever had that happen before with taking C, and at any amounts.

On the creation of the product, I am using a separate container and putting that in the water inside the UC. Since I have the larger harbor freight model, I would have to use quite a bit of product to produce a batch and I have been reluctant to do that. I think that having the solution directly in the machine is helpful, but I still have hesitations about creating lyposomal capsules in a stainless steel container not really knowing if there is any leaching of nickle or something from the metal into the spheres or combining with the AA and perhaps deactivating it.

thoughts? feedback?


Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I followed Brook's original recipe exactly. The Italics are my changes....

Quote:
1. Dissolved 3 level tablespoons of soy lecithin in 1 cup of water (preferably distilled). Note: This is key to being successful from the start. Mix the lecithin and distilled water in a seal-able quart jar so you can shake/agitate until the lecithin is completely dissolved. You don’t want any lecithin granules visible. Keep agitating until all granules are dissolved.

2. Dissolved 1 level tablespoon of ascorbic acid powder (Vit. “C”) in 1/2 cup of water.

3. Poured both solutions together in the ultrasonic cleaner bowl and turned the unit on. Using a plastic straw (leaving the top of the cleaner opened), gently, slowly, stirred the contents. Note: The cleaner will, automatically, self-stop about every 2 minutes. Just push ON button to continue. Repeat for a total of 3 series (6 minutes). By that time the entire solution should be blended into a cloudy, homogeneous, milk-like mixture. The LET solution is now formed. (Note: Tip: Pour the dissolved Vitamin C solution into the seal-able quart jar with the dissolved lecithin and shake briefly prior to pouring into the ultra-sonic cleaner. If you dissolved your lecithin first as directed in the note above you will need to close the lid due to bubbling. Simply open the lid frequently and give the mixture a quick stir before closing the lid again.)

4. This protocol furnishes about 12 grams (12000mg.) of vitamin C product. At 70% encapsulation efficiency, 8400 mg would be of the LET type. This solution will keep, acceptably, at room temperature for 3 to 4 days. Refrigerated, it will keep much longer.
Note: You can use the verification test described in comment #3 below to test the efficacy of your Liposomal Vitamin C. If you followed the tip about completely dissolving the lecithin granules prior to mixing in the ultrasonic cleaner you should have 75%+ encapsulation.



Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:38 am

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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Please read my findings from Livon Labs and one other supplier:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7590

The Key Point, use sodium ascorbate but not pure vitamin c powder...

I am going to make my new mixture today and see what happens.


Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:22 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I’m a chemical engineer but haven’t tried making homemade lypo vitamin C. Has anyone considered using a vacuum distillation step as the last step in various homemade methods?

Notice that Lypo C from livonlabs has no gross free water in the package. I’ll bet their last step in production is a vacuum distillation that removes essentially all free water from their product. This probably helps the lypo molecules encapsulate around the sodium ascorbate molecules. I agree with a previous post that the high pressure stream hitting the plate causes the organic lypo to break into small particles that encapsulate the sodium ascorbate.
Why use vacuum distillation? The ascorbate is temperature sensitive and is destroyed by heat (I’ve read about 140F temperature). Vacuum distillation actually reduces the temperature of the water/lypo/sodium ascorbate solution so that there would no degradation of the ascorbate. The chemical industry routinely uses vacuum distillation when working with heat sensitive organic molecules.

Setting up a vacuum is easy and inexpensive but it does require a little effort. The expensive way is to buy a vacuum pump. The cheap way is to buy one of the first two aspirators at http://www.google.com/products?sourceid ... CCgQrQQwAw (cost $14.50 plus S&H) and use that as the vacuum pump. I see no difference in the first two models. The specifications say minimum 7.5 psi water pressure (more than that is in your home faucets) will produce 28.5 inches of mercury vacuum. 29.92 – 28.5 = 1.42 inches of mercury absolute pressure. Now 1.42 inches of mercury x 25.4mm/inch equals 36 mm Hg absolute pressure and looking at http://www.mwit.ac.th/~physicslab/hbase ... atvap.html , this corresponds to about 90F temperature. Keep the lypo solution above 90F (keep container in a warm but not hot water bath) and you can distill essentially all the free water from the solution. Really that’s all there is to it. If you want, you can read more about vacuum distillation by doing a Google search on “vacuum distillation”.

If you have access to a vacuum pump or source (chemical labs usually have vacuum capability), it’s very easy to vacuum distill the finished lypo C solutions made in the above posts. Don’t use too much vacuum (boil the solution too fast) or the solution will experience a rapid drop in temperature as the water is boiled off under vacuum and you’ll actually form ice crystals in the solution (livonlabs says don’t freeze lypo C).

Most of you probably know that by pulling enough vacuum on a water solution you can cause the solution to boil from room temperature all the way down to the freezing point of the solution (32F for pure water). When the water vaporizes it absorbs heat from the solution (latent heat of vaporization) and this causes the solution to cool (the temperature to drop).


Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I have made several batches since my last post. Some I made with just Vitamin C from the foundation and some I added Bob's bicarbonate of soda to create absorbate. I also played with using a blender rather that shaking in a large jar to dissolve the lecithin prior to pouring in the ultra-sonic unit.

Pretty well convinced it just matters what level of vitamin C supplementation you're planning whether to trouble yourself with creating absorbate first. If I was doing several ounces daily I would make with absorbate to keep blood pH in range without taxing my body. If you're just using a tablespoon or so daily it seems extra effort for little gain.

Other posts have convinced me the liposome bubbles are smaller if you don't use the blender to mix the lecithin first although I would be the first to tell you that view could be incorrect. I also think the liposomes are smaller and more viable if you do 6 or more runs on the ultra-sonic as opposed to just the 3 runs in the recipe....

Anyway, I'm still playing with it. Will try to give the water removal exercise some thought although I'm hoping someone else will tackle doing it first.

Good Luck & Good Health,

Del


Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
In the following video Dr. Donsbach is talking about lecithin as a phospholipid liposome carrier and raising temperature to 110 degrees to open them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuL4R6FTies


Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:44 am
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