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 Homemade Lypo C 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:41 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Great thread!

I started making liposomal C in January because of bowel tolerance and bloating issues with taking such high doses of regular ascorbic acid. (>20g a day; including Ascorsine-9) It has been great, and the effort has been worth it in our case.

Originally, I used Brooks formula/ratio and a blender to blend up the lecithin, and the resulting mixture looked milky and everything was uniform (no undissolved particles). I used a thin bottomed glass (whiskey glass) to mix the ascorbic acid, then added the lecithin, and put that glass in the Ultrasonic cleaner (UC) and set it for two runs at 480 seconds each. The resulting mixture appeared milky white in color, with the occasional orange glob.

I used 2 glasses which had 24g of vitamin C. (12g in each glass , volume of 375ml x 2)

Lemonaid wrote:
In the following video Dr. Donsbach is talking about lecithin as a phospholipid liposome carrier and raising temperature to 110 degrees to open them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuL4R6FTies


Thanks for the link LemonAid. That gave me idea to use the UC's heat function, and double up the ascorbic acid and lecithin in the same volume.

Ex: 2 Tablespoons of Ascorbic Acid in 1/2 cup of Distilled Water
6 Tablespoons of Lecithin in 1 cup of Distilled Water

This time I used the same glass, and added the lecithin and water in the glass, and put the glass in the UC. I stirred that solution a bit, and then added water to the UC and put the heat on, effectively making a 'double boiler.' I waited about 45 minutes and stirred every few minutes. The lecithin water mixture turned into a uniform globby gel at about 100F, and was an apple cider color.

At that point, I turned the UC heater off.

I dissolved the ascorbic acid in room temperature water and then added that to the gel of lecithin and water, and the gel like state was hard to stir. It eventually started to loosen up, and then I ran it through the UC for 3 runs of 480sec.

The end appearance looked like apple cider, and was very gel-like/syrupy. It had the occasional orange gel throughout. It didn't taste bitter or sour at all

Taking 8g (or 1/2 cup) did not cause bloating or any diarrhea! Trying to do that with the non heated only allowed about 5g/dose. So, this light heat application allowed to increase vitamin C intake to 24g (8g x 3 approx. 4 hours apart), plus 4 scoops of Ascorsine (6G of ascorbic acid). So that's a total of 30g daily! :D

I can fit 2 glasses in the larger UC, but am always looking for a way to increase volume per UC session with larger volume glassware.

I haven't tried the sodium ascorbate test yet, but am pleasantly surprised at the body tolerating such a high single dose of liposomal vitamin c without discomfort.


Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:17 am
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Vitamin C Master
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I've used the one pint UC to make Lypo C and liked it so well that I bought and have used the larger 2.5L unit. I've made homemade Lypo C in the large unit by:

1. Using a blender I dissolved six tablespoons lecithin in two cups of water. Dissolve two tablespoons of ascorbate in one cup of water in a separate container. Pour the water/ascorbate solution into the blender with water/lecithin and turn on blender for a few seconds. Pour blender contents (water/lecithin/ascorbate) into the 2.5L UC.

2. Repeat Step 1 twice. In the UC are now nine cups of water, six tablespoons ascorbate and 18 tablespoons of lecithin. The UC is now full of the mixture.

3. Run UC for a total of 30 minutes without heating.

You now have nine cups of Lypo C solution.

Question:
1. Why use a glass in the UC per the previous post?


Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:15 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Thanks for your posts Rife and Rsarver.

I believe some are concerned with leaching of stainless steel into the solution. I use stainless steel cookware for cooking so I also pour the solution directly into the UC.

If there's evidence sonication can leach stainless steel alloy material into the bath more so than in typical stainless steel cookware I'd be interested in this info. Thanks.


Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:29 pm
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:41 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Thanks for the feedback!

rasarver wrote:
....Question:
1. Why use a glass in the UC per the previous post?


Lemonaid wrote:
Thanks for your posts Rife and Rsarver.

I believe some are concerned with leaching of stainless steel into the solution. I use stainless steel cookware for cooking so I also pour the solution directly into the UC.

If there's evidence sonication can leach stainless steel alloy material into the bath more so than in typical stainless steel cookware I'd be interested in this info. Thanks.


Over the years, I've heard many herbalists state that if you are going to be making any type of herbal 'concoction', like an infusion or tincture, always use glass, or some type of non-reactive vessel... never use metal or plastic in the process. (NB My stirring utensil is made of wood, I forgot to mention that.)

Reading some of the abstracts on PubMed, it looks like there is a real possibility of stainless steel leaching (esp. nickel, chromium and iron). Is it significant to human health? Does applying ultrasonic waves change that in any way, or does leaching have any relationship to grade of stainless steel used? I don't know.

I do know that I don't want to introduce another potential variable.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9183330
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1514841
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9200869
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8086709

Temper that with the wise words of the Elders before me, I decided to honor their wisdom, use glass, and eliminate the whole issue altogether. :)


Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Rife, what do you use to cook with?


Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:37 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Lemonaid wrote:
Rife, what do you use to cook with?


Most of my cooking is done in cast iron, Corningware Visions glassware, and bamboo steamers. I also use stainless steel occasionally as well.

Of course there are 'issues' with every cookware. When cooking in cast iron, it also can leach iron into the food (more so with acidic food), and glass cookware can 'explode'. :shock:


Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:52 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
The question is, how bioavailable is the liposomal vitamin C? The Foundation has decided to begin offering Donsbach's Liposomal Vitamin C and Simplex-C, in addition to LivonLabs because they have begun encapsulating the liposomes in softgels - completely eliminating taste as an issue. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

However, the question arises, just how good is this delivery system?

We hope to run some tests on serum vitamin C levels after taking the liposomal products. Life Extension has a vitamin C blood test ($47 ea. for LEF members) and we have heard that metametrix.com is a highly regarded for its nutrient blood tests (but we didn't see any vitamin C tests. http://www.metametrix.com/content/DirectoryofServices/DOSCategories ) If anyone can find other vitamin C assays, (a small prick like a glucose test would be very nice), or has any other ideas for determining how much liposomal vitamin C consumed enters the blood, please post.

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Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:51 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Ermmhmmm...
Anyone try adding other stuff in as well? Like CoQ10 or Resveratrol?


Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:40 am
Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeU--wadrMY


Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
Thanks for posting Evil,

I have the larger 2.6qt more powerful transducer ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight with a heating element. In one of Dr. Donsbach's talks of liposomal C he states heating the lecithin to 90 degrees F (if I remember the temperature correctly) opens up the liposomes.

So I make my liposomal C the same way except I use the heating element and then place the finished batch in the fridge to complete the encapsulazation. Would love to see more "scientific" experiments as to how effective this method is in comparison to Livon Labs.


Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
This is a very interesting thread.

Thanks to everyone for pioneering and testing/developing a recipe.

Would anyone want to comment on the latest recipe? I see the last post was quite some time ago.



Also, would anyone happen to know, if one can use "Buffered" vitamin C for this?

Thanks.


Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:57 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I made my first batch 6 days ago using the small UC from Harbor Freight and it only had about 3/8 in of foam when doing the sodium bicarb test for encapsulation%. I used the recipe at this address http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/62.

I just posted last night about my first experience with this homemade Lipo C http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8511


alive wrote:
This is a very interesting thread.

Thanks to everyone for pioneering and testing/developing a recipe.

Would anyone want to comment on the latest recipe? I see the last post was quite some time ago.



Also, would anyone happen to know, if one can use "Buffered" vitamin C for this?

Thanks.

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Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:36 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I would like to get some suggestions on something other than sodium bicarbonate for the neutralizer. Using a high dose of the Liposome Vitamin C results in a pretty high load of the sodium. It has been a long time since chemistry and some of the results may not be stable enough for digestion or maybe would not release the ascorbate. Perhaps someone can offer an alternative for the neutralizing agent. Something with magnesium would seem to be a great alternative as there seems to be few problem with ingesting an "excess" of that.


Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:35 am
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I'm planning on making some homemade lipo C soon
and will be using sodium ascorbate (not sure why most people are
useing AA and Baking soda when you can buy PH neutral SA cheap)
So the usual recipe is dissolve:
3 TBS soy lecithin in 1 cup water.
1 TBS AA in 1/2 cup water.
Pour in the Ultra Sonic and run for 6 min or more.
Would it not make sense to disolve the AA in all the
water (1 and 1/2 cups) run this in the UltraSonic alone,
then add the dry Lecithin and run again?
My understanding is that the liposome is formed as soon
as the water meets the Lecithin.
Thanks.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Homemade Lypo C
I was wondering about the same thing a few weeks ago but don't understand the liposome structure to really have any answer for you. I did have some possible thoughts on it but did not follow up with any research to get them resolved.

The purpose of the liposome is to encapsulate some material that is within the structure and use the liposome to bypass the digestive process that would degrade or breakdown the material. The commercial product is a dried version of a liposome. Is it possible that the shell must be reconstituted with the water to recreate the hollow shell for the carrier? And could it be that in some fashion the AA material in solution would become incorporated into the shell material, not just within the shell itself, and cause it to not withstand the digestive process?

Depending upon the dose you are attempting to deliver, it can take quite a bit of the lecithin to incorporate it. It is not particularly tasty and drinking several cups a day of it gets old fast. My thought were on how to get the load of AA up for the amount of lecithin consumed. Reading through the whole thread again, I found one post which described a failed attempt to skip the dissolving lecithin in distilled water first. Evidently it just does not dissolve as well in the AA solution.

While you are correct that the Sodium buffered AA is fairly cheap, certainly as compared to most OTC or prescription meds, it is still quite a bit more costly than the home made version. I had found a source for AA buffered with several other minerals and was considering the magnesium and potassium versions. I did get some ankle swelling from the Sodium buffered homemade version after a couple of weeks of high doses.

I do hope you will post a followup of how your work turn out.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:20 pm
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