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 Absorption: 
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Post Absorption:
Hickey and Roberts book Ascorbate states, "In healthy, young adults, vitamin C is actively removed from the gut and at low doses, say below 60 mg, almost all is absorbed.The proportion (though not the absolute amount) absorbed in a healthy individual decreases with dose: up to 80-90% of a 180mg dose is absorbed, this reduces to 75% at 1 gram, 50% at 1.5 grams, 26% at 6 grams and 16% at 12 grams. So, with a single dose of 12 grams, the actual intake into a healthy body is about two grams and the rest is excreted."

I thought I read somewhere that Linus Pauling did a urinalysis that refuted the idea that we are peeing out the majority of our intake???


Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Absorption:
scottbushey wrote:
Hickey and Roberts book Ascorbate states, "In healthy, young adults, vitamin C is actively removed from the gut and at low doses, say below 60 mg, almost all is absorbed.The proportion (though not the absolute amount) absorbed in a healthy individual decreases with dose: up to 80-90% of a 180mg dose is absorbed, this reduces to 75% at 1 gram, 50% at 1.5 grams, 26% at 6 grams and 16% at 12 grams. So, with a single dose of 12 grams, the actual intake into a healthy body is about two grams and the rest is excreted."

I thought I read somewhere that Linus Pauling did a urinalysis that refuted the idea that we are peeing out the majority of our intake???


Interesting topic. Obviously there are variables, as per another recent post - taking with aloe vera may significantly impact these numbers. We know from Sherry Lewin that taking the vitamin with carbohydrates leads to accelerated breakdown in the gut, while taking with proteins "protects" (chelates) the vitamin and increases absorption. Obviously, when the body is accepting vast amounts under illness, such as a 100,000 mg cold, more vitamin C is absorbed (otherwise it would reach the rectum causing diarrhea).

But your general point seems to be, is it true that the more you take, the more is wasted? Maybe. My counter-argument is that what is really wasted reaches the rectum and causes diarrhea. If you can tolerate 12 g at one serving without diarrhea, then it becomes convenient to take that amount, say every 12 hours, rather than perhaps 2 grams or less every 2 hours. The pharmakinetics seem to indicate that an optimum dose w/r to keeping blood levels high and constant is 500 mg every 3/4 hours. Each of us excretes vitamin C differently, and while the blood level is controlled to ensure balance, Pauling pointed out all the good that comes from high levels of vitamin C in the urethra and bladder.

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Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:39 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
Owen,
I am a nurse that works for Cleveland Clinic; I am obsessive w/ details. I can't seem to get a straight answer in regards to efficacious dosing. At present I am ingesting 4 grams Ascorbic Acid every 4 hrs for about a total of 12g daily. A week or so ago, I believe I reached BT when I added another 6g for a total of 18g's. If taking a smaller dose more frequently is more beneficial, I would be willing to sacrifice and attempt the task.

Thoughts?


Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:21 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Absorption:
Quote:
every 4 hrs


Do you mean 3 times, to bring you to 12 g? Because that would mean you are dosing "properly" for 12 hours, and then "resting" for another 12. Remember the 30 minutes half life. I think you would be better served spreading the 12-18 grams throughout the day to keep the blood level constant and balanced.

We are all different, and bowel tolerance (as described here: http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm ) is the best "rule of thumb" to approximate a correct dosage for you. Sounds like your daily requirement is between 12,000 and 18,000 mg daily. I used to take 9,000 mg twice daily (every 12 hours) and I would get a tickle in my throat if I forgot the second dose, that is, until I read Hickey/Roberts: ASCORBATE: THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C. I now take smaller, but pretty large doses every 12 hours, but I also take a 500 mg tablet throughout the day (every 3/4 hours). You might see if this book (lulu.com/ascorbate) answers your questions if the Cathcart paper does not.

I must say that adding vitamin D in the winter has made a huge difference. I used to get sick in winter despite my huge vitamin C dosages. Once I began getting daily dosages of vitamin D above 5000 mg - almost nothing, although last year, I turned out my UV light in April, and coincidentally the very next day, I caught something! Taught me a lesson.

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Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:48 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
ofonorow wrote:
Quote:
every 4 hrs


Do you mean 3 times, to bring you to 12 g?


Yes.

Quote:
Because that would mean you are dosing "properly" for 12 hours, and then "resting" for another 12. Remember the 30 minutes half life. I think you would be better served spreading the 12-18 grams throughout the day to keep the blood level constant and balanced.


So, you feel that I should space it closer together and increase to the 18g's?

Quote:
We are all different, and bowel tolerance (as described here: http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm ) is the best "rule of thumb" to approximate a correct dosage for you. Sounds like your daily requirement is between 12,000 and 18,000 mg daily. I used to take 9,000 mg twice daily (every 12 hours) and I would get a tickle in my throat if I forgot the second dose, that is, until I read Hickey/Roberts: ASCORBATE: THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C. I now take smaller, but pretty large doses every 12 hours, but I also take a 500 mg tablet throughout the day (every 3/4 hours). You might see if this book (lulu.com/ascorbate) answers your questions if the Cathcart paper does not.


Owen, I have read both. It didn't really bring me to a better conclusion....

Quote:
I must say that adding vitamin D in the winter has made a huge difference. I used to get sick in winter despite my huge vitamin C dosages. Once I began getting daily dosages of vitamin D above 5000 mg - almost nothing, although last year, I turned out my UV light in April, and coincidentally the very next day, I caught something! Taught me a lesson.


I'm taking about 2 g's of D3 daily-should I increase?

Thanks in advance.

PS: I asked the questions that you had on your site to a physician I work with-he said, "Those are excellent questions".


Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:04 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Absorption:
Quote:
So, you feel that I should space it closer together and increase to the 18g's?


Well, I was thinking that you should spread the intake over waking hours e.g. 18 hours, not 12 hours, and perhaps take a larger dose before bed to keep the blood levels even throughout the day. (As opposed to taking for 12 hours, and not taking for another 12 hours.)

You say 2 g vitamin D3 - you mean 2000 iu (I hope)? The basics are that in the summer, 20 minutes of sun bathing between 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. generates approximately 8000 iu vitamin D3. I usually supplement 1000 iu in the summer. During the winter, in addition to a 20 minutes UV light, I have upped my D3 to 6000 iu, and so far so good!

Now there are those who are more expert in dosing vitamin D, but I find that if avoidance of cold/flu/infection is the objective, this dosage works.

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Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:16 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
ofonorow wrote:
Quote:
So, you feel that I should space it closer together and increase to the 18g's?


Well, I was thinking that you should spread the intake over waking hours e.g. 18 hours, not 12 hours, and perhaps take a larger dose before bed to keep the blood levels even throughout the day. (As opposed to taking for 12 hours, and not taking for another 12 hours.)

You say 2 g vitamin D3 - you mean 2000 iu (I hope)? The basics are that in the summer, 20 minutes of sun bathing between 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. generates approximately 8000 iu vitamin D3. I usually supplement 1000 iu in the summer. During the winter, in addition to a 20 minutes UV light, I have upped my D3 to 6000 iu, and so far so good!

Now there are those who are more expert in dosing vitamin D, but I find that if avoidance of cold/flu/infection is the objective, this dosage works.


Vitamin D has similar behavior to C in that when your body needs it, it can use 10 or even 20 times more than a maintenance dose. High dose D is definitely a good idea since it's a critical nutrient for many diverse functions. I would just suggest using CLO to get it so that it comes with a proper ratio of vitamin A. All the arguments for D in relation to the immune system basically apply to vitamin A as well. Search pubmed for "influenza vitamin A" and you can see many studies that confirm it's role in immune function. Other good searches are "retinol infection" or "vitamin A infection". Numerous vitamin A deficiency studies have shown multiple viral, bacterial, fungal infections. In addition, high dose vitamin D supplementation can lead to vitamin A deficiency--which can be very serious.

I'm starting to look at the relationship of A/D and C now.


Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Absorption:
I would suggest Weston a price foundation, i have read a very well written article abouth vitamin D and vitamin A and their antagonistic effeckts.


Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:02 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
ofonorow wrote:
Once I began getting daily dosages of vitamin D above 5000 mg - almost nothing,


Owen, I think you meant 5000 iu, not mg !


Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:08 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
ofonorow wrote:
.. During the winter, in addition to a 20 minutes UV light, I have upped my D3 to 6000 iu, and so far so good!

Now there are those who are more expert in dosing vitamin D, but I find that if avoidance of cold/flu/infection is the objective, this dosage works.

Owen,
what kind of UV light can be used to enhance vitamin D3 levels?
And did you check its additional effect with 25(OH)D level tests?

Thanks..


Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:36 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
It's UVB, noon light, doesn't go through glass.


Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:30 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Absorption:
Quote:
Owen,
what kind of UV light can be used to enhance vitamin D3 levels?
And did you check its additional effect with 25(OH)D level tests?

Thanks..


I use a UV/B light marketed for reptiles (who require UV/B light for the same reasons we do) and it comes with a dire warning not to be used by humans as it may cause cancer!

I use it for 20 minutes daily from fall equinox to spring equinox.

I think this is now my fourth, probably fifth year. And the first two years - nothing. No sniffles, nada. I did not get sick for two full years after starting the UV/B light! (Started this after getting a severe B strain flu in january about 5 or 6 years ago.) So I did not bother with a blood reading, although I did purchase a UV/B meter so I could measure the rays from the sun (and did indeed verify that no UV/B comes from sunlight through glass). And UV/B does change based on the season/date.

The third year - on the same bulb - I got sick!?! Turns out these bulbs can stop producing UV/B without burning out. (I feel sorry for the poor reptiles who are probably dying because their owners do not realize this.) This is why I purchased the meter, and from now on, I am purchasing a new bulb for each winter.

Because I used to consistently get sniffles, colds and even the flu, beginning in the month of October every year, despite my ultra high vitamin C intake, I have become a strong believer in vitamin D! (I also take 5000 to 6000 iu of oral D3 in winter.) In summer, I take 20 minutes of ordinary sunshine between 10:00 a.m and 2:00 p.m.

Anyway, last year, I stopped the darn light some time in March or early April - and I got sick the next day!? Even restarting the UV/B light didn't lessen the illness.

I don't like publishing the brand - its "dangerous" after all - just make sure it is mostly UV/B - enough to keep reptiles alive. Some lamps include UV/A (for tanning) and I am only interested in the UV/B portion for vitamin D generation. It is like a spot light, but if you really want to know, send me a Private Message and I'll provide details of my lamp.

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Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:22 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
Many thanks for the detailed reply. I first will check local reptile stores for the light.

ofonorow wrote:
.. I have become a strong believer in vitamin D! (I also take 5000 to 6000 iu of oral D3 in winter.) ..

Me too. I started Pauling's recommendations a year ago. However, due to my caution and the high prices only with doses closer to prevention. Half a year ago I increased to the more complete treatment recommendations, where the PAD started to impressively improve to double the original walking distance. Only with autumn it relapsed a bid again - which finally made me see the strong connection to vitamin D3 too (this summer I've got much sunlight due to outside construction work).

Regards..


Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:40 am
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Post Re: Absorption:
ofonorow wrote:
...
We are all different, and bowel tolerance (as described here: http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm ) is the best "rule of thumb" to approximate a correct dosage for you. Sounds like your daily requirement is between 12,000 and 18,000 mg daily. I used to take 9,000 mg twice daily (every 12 hours) and I would get a tickle in my throat if I forgot the second dose, that is, until I read Hickey/Roberts: ASCORBATE: THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C. I now take smaller, but pretty large doses every 12 hours, but I also take a 500 mg tablet throughout the day (every 3/4 hours). You might see if this book (lulu.com/ascorbate) answers your questions if the Cathcart paper does not.

I must say that adding vitamin D in the winter has made a huge difference. I used to get sick in winter despite my huge vitamin C dosages. Once I began getting daily dosages of vitamin D above 5000 mg - almost nothing, although last year, I turned out my UV light in April, and coincidentally the very next day, I caught something! Taught me a lesson.

Going back to these older posts that might soon get deleted, I found this posting interesting. Might it not foreshadow the tonsil infection that was so recently discovered and dealt with?


Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:13 am
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