Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me!)

Physician Reference and discussion of the methods, protocols and effects of intravenous vitamin C (versus oral or liposomal).

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Croatia
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#16  Post by Croatia » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:40 pm

ofonorow wrote:Dr. Bush, now in his 80s, thought he had candida, is now well, and credited MSM for a large part of his recovery.

However, in my case, I was susceptible to these infections, in part due to abscessed tonsil(s) and other sites of infection in my mouth, but mostly due to my aging body's inability to make enough cortisol!

Now that I have corrected the mouth - and am taking replacement cortisol - I am well!

And I must say, that when the symptoms of the cortisol deficiency got really bad (like rhuematoid arthritis), i.e., widespread pain and inflammation, I had trouble walking and thought I'd be spend a lot of my future in a wheel chair. Now, thanks to Dr. Jefferies (Safe Uses of Cortisol), I am playing tennis daily with my wife!


Owen I am glad you are well now.

Thank you for MSM pointer, I will look into that.

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#17  Post by montes » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:17 am

ofonorow wrote:

International Intravenous Vitamin C Association (iivca.org)


In an effort to spread this knowledge and connect patients with IV/C doctors, we are considering forming an international organization of medical doctors who perform IV/C. This will be a very private organization, and we may fly to meet any doctor and visit their practice before allowing them "in." The purpose will be to provide training and the very best information on how to use IV/C effectively in their practice. If the doc is willing to conform to certain principles/guidelines, such as the use of Cathcart-style sodium ascorbate, then they can become Vitamin C Foundation Approved. We hope to help patients who want IV/C to connect with these doctors, and the Foundation will try to help those in need get IV vitamin C treatments.

Suggestions for a better names for the org appreciated! Don't be shy!


Did this ever take off? The link is dead, it seems.

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#18  Post by ofonorow » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:17 am

Good question.
No. But the Riordan clinic serves a similar function, e.g. http://www.riordanclinic.org/ (promoting vitamin IV/C)
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#19  Post by jamesLdavis1 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:43 pm

This sounds like you had a major hypertonic overload.

20grams of sodium + the sodium from the lactated ringer's would have given your body an incredible sodium overload

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#20  Post by jamesLdavis1 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:36 am

ofonorow wrote:Note the dosages (250 g) that can now be given with the two stage (hot/cold) infusions.
Owen,

I just did a 200 gram fresh Cathcart (hot) drip for my brother last night. He dropped the bags ..each 900cc in lactated ringers in 2 and half hours...then we did a 500cc bag with 50gram mcguff non corn..


Buy the end of the mcguff (cold) bag his terrible herx was relieved and he was laughing and smiling again...this is a after he was burning in his eyes and head...and had major herx during the 200 gram drip.



This absolutely must have been a bad reaction and not a herx. People don'tfeel their eyes and head burning from a herx, they could feel that from sodium overload, a hypertonic solution problem.

Any word on how this guy's brother is doing? Have you followed up Owen?

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#21  Post by ofonorow » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:48 am

The point of the quote was that the bad reaction - whatever you want to call it - was only after a commercial vitamin C product was infused, in this case McGuff. This fellow had learned (the hard way) that the ordinary vitamin C infusions done by many doctors can be harmful and less effective than the sodium ascorbate administered in the manner of Dr. Robert Cathcart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuRTLoQlSks

This gentleman, and we'll call him Mike, first brought this difference to our attention attempting to help his mercury-poisoned sister. As per this account, http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7563 which was published in the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, her pain was used as a guide to how well the vitamin C was working. The ordinary infusions damaged her veins, which is something that never seems to happen using Cathcart's preparation which produces a correct neutral pH.

It was during this period that we were learning of the difference, our local alt. doc who is a trained biochemist could not believe such a difference existed. But after seeing it with his own eyes, has started calling Catchart style IV/C "hot C" and the commercial, usually BioNiche, "cold C". The body reacts strongly to the Hot C, and we call these reactions herxheimer, but you can call them what you want. Mike noticed that the parts of the body that are injured can be identified by these "Hot C" infusions, and I have experienced it. I have also taken a 200 gram IV/C of sodium ascorbate without any problems what-so-ever - hypertonic or otherwise.

Mike's brother had been poisoned with certain anti-pyschotic drugs, and Cathcart-style vitamin C infusions brought his brother back to almost normal. (You remind me that I should email Mike about Niacin!)
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#22  Post by davea0511 » Wed May 21, 2014 9:59 am

Hi Owen -

A better suited format, like a wiki, for recommended protocols (such as IV C) would be very useful. I'll post this in a new thread, but this ("Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol") is a perfect example. It's really really hard to digest everything spread out in a forum to ascertain the latest data and foremost interpretations for each condition.

Thx! Dave
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#23  Post by davea0511 » Wed May 21, 2014 12:07 pm

Ever considered doing an coffee enema to deal with the herx? It should help clean out the debris in your blood causing all the problem - that is after all it's purpose and why it's part of enzyme therapy.
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#24  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 27, 2014 10:00 am

Reasonable and good idea - but I would say it is hard enough to get pancreatic cancer patients to do these enemas, to expect IV/C patients to accept the idea. And, slowing down the drip at the end seems to perform the same function - a slow flush of toxins that have moved out of tissues into blood.
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#25  Post by davea0511 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:58 pm

Hi Owen - I have some more questions about this, as I'm consulting with a friend who is investigating IVC.

1) You earlier mentioned you can now do a 200g infusion without problem. Is that commercial solution or Cathcart? Can you now do a 100g Cathcart comfortably?

2) Are you still convinced your reaction had to do with a cortisol deficiency and do you know what that mechanism was?
The ascorbist-greeting:
"Score big, eh eh?", "Is yea.", "Excelente'."

(igpay-atinlay of: "Ascorbic?","Yes.","Excellent.")
Short-form: "Score?", "Score." [knuckle bump]

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#26  Post by ofonorow » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:03 am

I am trying to put these questions in context? My last comment in this post was regard to "Mike" discovering that some doctors use ascorbic acid (not buffered enough) and thus unintentionally ruin veins, and that the Cathcart method of preparation of sodium ascorbate produces a much more powerful form of IV/C than some commercial "off the shelf" vitamin C for injection products.

davea0511 wrote:Hi Owen - I have some more questions about this, as I'm consulting with a friend who is investigating IVC.

1) You earlier mentioned you can now do a 200g infusion without problem. Is that commercial solution or Cathcart? Can you now do a 100g Cathcart comfortably?


The answer, leading to the next question, is that I don't know. Once I discovered that my problem was adrenal insufficiency (low cortisol) I stopped the intravenous IV/Cs. From memory, I once did 200 grams - Cathcarts (I would be afraid to try something like BioNiche with that amount). I remember that amount required 2 IV bags.)

2) Are you still convinced your reaction had to do with a cortisol deficiency and do you know what that mechanism was?


Please be more specific. What reaction are you referring to?

My body (i.e. adrenal glands) now produces approximately 15-20% less cortisol than is required to keep me inflammation free. With 2-4 mg methyl prednisolone, and now 12.5 mg of hydrocortisone, I am well and essentially pain free.

Cortisol is the Steroidal Anti Inflammatory and what I am doing is essentially natural hormone replacement that is not well understood by the vast majority of medical doctors. (I have been able to influence, possibly change a few minds, with William Mck Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition, although the young endricinologist who prescribes my hydrocortisone seems to have a much better handle on it. So maybe things are improving in medical school.
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#27  Post by davea0511 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:02 am

Thank you for the replies Owen. As for context, for the last 6 months I've been doing my own "what, why and how" write-up for IVC, intended for the layperson (I'm actually about 100 pages into it so far, with 50+ different references to the medline database). As part of that effort I'm trying to assess whatever conditions will cause a contraindication, and your experience of severe RA during the Cathcart protocol is significant for a number of reasons, mainly because of the severity, and of course being that you are one of the foremost proponent of vitamin C therapies. It then follows that I should at least try to understand what might have caused the RA and any other adverse symptoms that you experienced.

I know that Solu-Cortef has been prescribed previously by many IVC practitioners to help mitigate the effects of herxheimer (prevents inflammation, allergic reaction) and you mentioned yourself that a push of it prior to administration made a big difference. As for a mechanism, endogenous steroids (cortisol) might always be necessary during IVC to keep the immune response system at bay and you didn't have enough. So it may be that anyone without sufficient cortisol will experience some sort of herxheimer-like reaction. Since it might be unrelated to preexisting toxins, I don't know however if that qualifies as a true herxheimer reaction though. I do have hydrocortisone (eg. SoluCortef) listed as one of a number of potential remedies for herxheimer type reaction.

I am also curious now why you now say that you would be afraid of doing 200g of Bioniche, when in fact it was the Cathcart that gave you the RA, yes?
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#28  Post by ofonorow » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:44 am

Sounds like you are doing very good work!

Regarding BioNiche. I don't understand why the commercial version (a buffered ascorbic acid) is so mild. So innocuous? Not much more than taking saline. I am not always a conspiracy theorist, but I know what I am taking with the Cathcart mixture, I am getting a real IV/C.

All my initial reports before being diagnosed with Adrenal Insufficiency are interesting, but for me, not relevant as I am now on cortisol replacement therapy. You might recommend the cortisol day-long saliva test, as the results really impressed me. The saliva test results matched almost exactly the replacement dosage that keeps me pain free. (showed I was low by almost the exact amount).
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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#29  Post by davea0511 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:53 pm

Do you have a link to that day-long saliva test protocol?
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"Score big, eh eh?", "Is yea.", "Excelente'."

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Re: Correct Intravenous Vitamin C Protocol (Now you tell me

Post Number:#30  Post by davea0511 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:58 pm

Also, is there any data anywhere, study or otherwise, that shows how much of the commercial IVC has been oxidized as it sits on the shelf. Since it's half-life in deionized water is about 90 minutes, I have to imagine that it's mostly DHAA (I'm adopting Kitt's abbreviation instead of the mor confusing "DHA"). Then, given the short half-life of DHAA, depends on the concentration and pH (I believe concentration is opposite from AA... lower concentration of DHAA is more stable) and being buffered half-life of DHAA is probably very short, maybe much/most of it isn't even vitamin C anymore by the time you get it.

I've spent hours trying to find such a study of commercial IVC solutions, to no avail.
The ascorbist-greeting:
"Score big, eh eh?", "Is yea.", "Excelente'."

(igpay-atinlay of: "Ascorbic?","Yes.","Excellent.")
Short-form: "Score?", "Score." [knuckle bump]


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