Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Physician Reference and discussion of the methods, protocols and effects of intravenous vitamin C (versus oral or liposomal).

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Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:11 am

I am a 55 year old Caucasian male that was recently on a treatment program for chronic hepatitis c. It was a 24 week course involving the combination of pegylated interferon and ribavirin. After 7 weeks I was taken off the treatment because of some of the nasty side effects. I am being treated at [deleted] clinic at the University of [deleted]. I ended up spending 72 hours in one of the mental health units. I met a nurse there that was interviewing me for part of my release process. I told her that I may have to go back on the treatment somewhere in the future, only they would have to mix in antidepressants too.

She mentioned the Vitamin C Foundation and the book Primal Panacea by Tom Levy. She suggested trying vitamin c treatment first. She had a successful experience with it as a treatment for hepatitis b that she had contracted. And she said she will be using high dosages of vitamin c for life. I would like some information about beginning a vitamin c treatment plan. What products, dosages, length of treatment, etc. After my 4th week of treatment the virus was already undetectable. My genotype is 3A. My liver MRI before treatment showed my liver was pretty much undamaged. No swelling, scarring, or cirrhosis. The only noticeable symptom is a slightly high fat count. I was referred to you by a gentleman from the vitamin c foundation that I spoke with today.

Thank You,

Jerry



Sorry for your difficulties, and it sounds like you have a great nurse, so I won't publish the name of the hospital! (It is likely that the reason my primary care physician was fired recently was because she ordered intravenous vitamin C for me - at my request. I don't know for sure, but she was fired.)

If I read you correctly, the virus is currently under control, so you are thinking of vitamin C for maintenance? Normally an intravenous vitamin C regimen would be required to accomplish eradication of the virus.

The amount of vitamin C people can take and need differs.

An alternative to IV/C is a true liposomal vitamin C product, such as Lypo-C from LivonLabs.com

Primal Panacea is an excellent overview. The more specific dosage information for hepatitis are in the updated Levy book CURING THE INCURABLE:Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins. LivonBooks.com

Also, any liver problem makes me think glutathione - and livon has an excellent liposomal glutathione - Lypo-GSH.

If it were me, and I could afford it, I would take some regular vitamin C, mostly ascorbic acid, to what is called bowel tolerance. For me that is around 15,000 to 20,000 mg daily. Then I would add 5 packets of Lypo-C at one time, once or twice a day (as these 5 can simulate blood levels after a small IV/C). I would take one Lypo-GSH daily.

Finally, have they checked your vitamin B12 levels? The number one cause of depression in the world is probably a vitamin B12 deficiency that can not be rectified with oral B12. Shots or the new b12 patch.
(My brother's depression was relieved in about 4 hours after starting the patch http://www.b12patch.com/about-b12patch.html
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#2  Post by gofanu » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:07 pm

A few years ago, I did a lot of investigation into HepC, at the request of a suffering friend. I am tuned into it as a result.
The basic antiviral qualities of V-C orally to max tolerance or IV, and the C-augmenting powers of ALA are well established. So are those of selenium and iodine , though you'd not know it in this country.

ALA is first line treatment for all liver disease in Europe.
Burt Berkson is the US ALA expert.
This is a place to start:
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine Vol 13 No1 1998
Alpha-Lipoic acid (Thiocitic acid)

There is much more from him if you search.
And he has a clinic/practice in New Mexico.

The Berkson Clinical Study
http://www.janis7hepc.com/Nutrition/Ber ... 0Study.htm
(this is essential reading - if you cannot find it, PM me and I will send you a copy!)

Long-Term Survival with Alpha-Lipoic Acid (Intravenous), Multiple Antioxidants, and Low-Dose Naltrexone (pancreatic cancer, but the treatment is similar)
http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/pancreatic_02.htm

I got my friend through a lot of bad side issues before he felt well enough to try the Medi-Pharm interferon scam.

The interferon treatment is brutal, and at least in the form of a "study" there is apparently no requirement to be certain the subject is doing the correct thing, but only that he conform to the study. First requirement for ANY HepC/Liver thing is to drink a lot of water to detox whatever is happening. They were testing his blood constantly, and it had to be like roof tar. We were on a road tour (musician) and I was with him 24/hrs for 10 days straight - he drank a maximum of one day's water requirement total in that time. He had all the signs of near fatal dehydration, including insanity. As "minder" I had to discuss this, and lost my oldest friend as a result in the ensuing argument. I do not know how much of that was the actual interferon, and how much the dehydration.

"The only noticeable symptom is a slightly high fat count. "
This is a well known result of low choline, a very widespread deficiency, contributing to all manner of things especially involving liver health and far more. It is part of the B vitamin group and interacts with others. Also having significant effects throughout the body.
See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906248

"any liver problem makes me think glutathione"
Owen - see my rant about glutathione I posted tonight, I think in the "tooth decay" thread.

"number one cause of depression in the world"
Again, post yesterday in "V-C fat burning etc"
ONE POSSIBLE IMMEDIATE cause. Probably consequent to many combined deficiencies involving B vitamins and other things. Just like "cortisol", it can give results that are covering and obscuring multiple possibly fatal ongoing failures.

If anybody wants to know, in addition to 2001 estrangement of above friend, in 2008 my wife and another long term friend died of Pancreatic cancer, while a third equally long term died of ovarian cancer - very similar to pancreatic and liver things. I am not pleased with Medi-Pharm, who would not read or discuss any of this.

FRM

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:05 am

I looked but couldn't find it. link?
"any liver problem makes me think glutathione"
Owen - see my rant about glutathione I posted tonight, I think in the "tooth decay" thread.


What I think I know is based on two different viewpoints.

Life Extension feels that the primary reason Tylenol (Acetaminophen) is so toxic to the liver is because it depletes glutathione in the liver. (LEF has tried to introduce a version of this pain reliever that includes NAC. Whether that would work or not, the FDA wouldn't let them.)

From Chris Shade, an environmental scientist, I learned that glutathione is the primary cell detoxification agent - GSH is made in the cell, and has one path - out - of the cell after it attaches to some toxin. Toxins can include viruses, etc.

Putting these ideas together - the liver is the primary detoxification organ in the human body, and if Chris Shade's understanding is correct, we would expect high levels of glutathione in the liver. So again, when I hear about liver problems, the first nutritional attack would be to increase glutathione levels, (and according to Boyd Haley, the only "proven" way to increase intracellular glutathione is high dose vitamin C. However, another point Chris Shade made was that liposomal GSH seems to be able to increase intracellular GSH levels.)
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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#4  Post by gofanu » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:00 am

Sorry, wrong rant!
In the farmer Smith > G6PD one.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10023&p=29796#p29796

Part of my HepC research got mixed up with the then appropriate inquiry into aspirin/Reyes syndrome, as my daughter was at the age when that "issue" arises. It was immediately obvious that the big issue with HepC is liver damage subsequent to total destruction of V-C by the infection. It was also obvious that the big issue with "Reye's" is liver damage caused by total loss of V-C subsequent to "minor" (???) "flu" infections, coupled with the teenage general severe stress deficiencies elucidated by Hans Selye and Adelle Davis. I would not have hesitated to give my daughter aspirin with shovels of C, but wife was in charge.
I did not fight because I then had no knowledge of the evils of acetaminophen, and in fact converted my personal pain reliever to acetaminophen. And soon noticed disturbing effects, so I started looking into that. Much worse than aspirin! And ALL OTC pain relieve products have similar though not identical effects, some worse than others. But still C is protective - I hope.
Subsequent adventures have led to my total lack of need or use of any pain reliever for the past 10 or so years, so the issue is moot for me. And could be for thee.

It may well be that glutathione is the sole operative agent against these poisons in the liver, rejuvenated by V-C. Or it may be the V-C itself, or some combination.

I find this statement quite astonishing: "according to Boyd Haley, the only "proven" way to increase intracellular glutathione is high dose vitamin C", since it was a quote from Dr Haley that first put me onto the selenium/glutathione/mercury path, which the good Doctor seems to have fallen off - or maybe just his usurpers.

My main criticism of the approaches you and many others give and preach and practice is:
The body will produce any and all hormones, enzymes etc that it may require, in exactly correct and non toxic amounts, IF you supply it with the necessary ingredients- read "nutrients". This is elsewhere known as the BASIS of "orthomolecular" medicine, the genius insight of Hoffer & Pauling & Ames & Ely. Eating glutathione, cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, melatonin etc & etc. MIGHT help something briefly, but it DOES circumvent natural control systems, and it DOES NOT fix the underlying deficiency. The underlying deficiency may and usually does pop up again, frequently far worse than previous; this is why the pages of evil "side effects" are often or always a worse form of the initial problem drugs are used to treat.

My approach is always to start at the beginning, and let the wondrous awesome biological machine do its thing. My brain is fair, but it cannot keep the chem plant running like the ol' bod can. (note the word - bio + LOGICAL). From an evolutionary perspective, the brain's JOB is to figure out how to find what the body NEEDS.

FRM

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:28 am

I heard Dr. Boyd Haley make that statement in person ("High dose vitamin C is the only proven way to increase intracellular glutathione") during a lecture devoted to a new antiooxidant product he developed (named OSR, from memory). Haley was then trying to experimentally prove OSR could do the same thing.

Generally, you can not "eat" glutathione. It will not enter cells via the blood (although there was a general feeling at the conference that liposomal GSH was a new development that could raise intracellular GSH).

So we are talking about the effects of poisoning - causing GSH depletion in the liver. (Not overcoming a nutrient deficiency.)


My main criticism of the approaches you and many others give and preach and practice is:
The body will produce any and all hormones, enzymes etc that it may require, in exactly correct and non toxic amounts, IF you supply it with the necessary ingredients- read "nutrients". This is elsewhere known as the BASIS of "orthomolecular" medicine, the genius insight of Hoffer & Pauling & Ames & Ely. Eating glutathione, cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, melatonin etc & etc. MIGHT help something briefly, but it DOES circumvent natural control systems, and it DOES NOT fix the underlying deficiency. The underlying deficiency may and usually does pop up again, frequently far worse than previous; this is why the pages of evil "side effects" are often or always a worse form of the initial problem drugs are used to treat.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#6  Post by majkinetor » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:42 am

I heard Dr. Boyd Haley make that statement in person ("High dose vitamin C is the only proven way to increase intracellular glutathione") during a lecture devoted to a new antiooxidant product he developed (named OSR, from memory). Haley was then trying to experimentally prove OSR could do the same thing.

Great info. Now Boyd Haley definitely is on my next-to-ignore list.

Again:

N-Acetylcysteine--a safe antidote for cysteine/glutathione deficiency
http://www.fluimucil.ir/pdf/meta-analysis-2007.pdf

N-acetylcysteine enhances muscle cysteine and glutathione availability and attenuates fatigue during prolonged exercise in endurance-trained individuals
http://www.jappl.org/content/97/4/1477.full

N-Acetylcysteine (NAC) and glutathione (GSH): Antioxidant and chemopreventive properties, with special reference to lung cancer
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 5/abstract

High-dose oral N-acetylcysteine, a glutathione prodrug, modulates inflammation in cystic fibrosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed

Actually, you can find bunch of papers on this topic.

BUT, perhaps Boyd put those papers in 'unproven' category.
Last edited by majkinetor on Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:50 am

Okay, let me think about this.

Trust and listen to emeritus professor of Chemistry Boyd Halley, who has spent his later years fighting the establishment at all levels over mercury poisoning leading to Alzheimer's, at great cost to his reputation.

Or trust and listen someone prone to ridiculous, off-the-cuff, easy to dismiss comments, based upon remarkably miniscule evidence and a complete lack of perspective.

Hmmmm
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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#8  Post by majkinetor » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:39 am

Its not the first time you dismiss what you clearly don't understand. Actually, its more like a rule now.

With attitude like that from main promoters, its no wonder vitamin C has bad reputation.

I think I had enough nonsense cause I am sure you will continue living in your fantasy worlds.

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#9  Post by Jacquie » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:11 pm

ofonorow wrote:Life Extension feels that the primary reason Tylenol (Acetaminophen) is so toxic to the liver is because it depletes glutathione in the liver.

It's not just Life Extension that thinks this - incredibly, the allopaths do, too. Standard of Care treatment for acetaminophen/paracetamol toxicity includes intravenous NAC, to regenerate glutathione in the liver (for more explanation). It's hard to believe, but every so often those crazy funsters do it right.

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Re: Using vitamin C to treat chronic hepatitis c

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:27 am

Thanks Jacquie. (I referred to LEF because they usually have more credibility.) There is little doubt that glutathione depletion is the primary issue in liver toxicity caused by Tylenol and other toxins.

Imagine if they added vitamin C to the intravenous NAC protocol! (Along with oral Milk Thistle).


To date, there are no known clinical studies conducted to evaluate the use of NAC in patients who present late with hepatotoxicity but without signs of hepatic failure
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


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