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 What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful! 
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 3:17 am
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Post What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
I'm dealing with a nasty virus that started in my lungs and is now in my sinuses. I'm miserable, and tried all I have in my arsenal at home but nothing budged.

I had 25 grams IV C today. My temperature has gone up from 99.4 to 101. My lungs feel slightly better, but my sinuses are miserable, my eyes are pouring tears, and I just still feel awful!

How does the C IV usually work? Should I be feeling better faster? Is one IV usually enough for a virus?

I have livon labs lipisomal C. Should I take some tonight? Or was the 25 grams today enough?

Thanks


Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:03 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
These are just my opinions.

AngieLynn wrote:
I'm dealing with a nasty virus that started in my lungs and is now in my sinuses. I'm miserable, and tried all I have in my arsenal at home but nothing budged.


Ideally, the 8 g every 20 minutes for 2 to 3 hours "surefire cure" at the outset may have mitigated your illness. Too late for you, but a word to the other wise people. (After you miss the chance to stop it in the beginning, we have computed here at this forum that it probably requires something like 450 grams (450,000 mg) to control an ongoing cold or virus (although some viral infections may require twice as much.) Ergo, you need to get between 400 and 500 grams of vitamin C into you as quickly as possible.

To me this is the advantage of IV/C - you could get say 4 - 100 gram treatments - without having to worry about your bowel tolerance.

Finally, for other readers, the way to avoid these viral infections completely. Seems to work like magic, is to keep your vitamin D levels as high as if you were in the sun each day for 30 minutes in the summer. (Pills may work, but UV/B light certainly works for me.)


Quote:
I had 25 grams IV C today. My temperature has gone up from 99.4 to 101. My lungs feel slightly better, but my sinuses are miserable, my eyes are pouring tears, and I just still feel awful!


Very small dose. You could have probably taken 4 times that much by mouth, because of the way the body absorbs vitamin C during illness. Please review the Catchcart Titrating to Bowel Tolerance paper, and note the 24 hour dosages for viral infections!!
http://vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/Vitamin_C_Dosage_in_Disease.pdf

Quote:
How does the C IV usually work? Should I be feeling better faster? Is one IV usually enough for a virus?


Do you know what they used for vitamin C in the IV? If they used BioNiche then in my experience, that was a very "weak" form of IV/C. The sodium ascorbate as described by Dr. Robert Cathcart, III, MD would have had a much more profound effect, but the fact remains that you still took a small dosage. For most conditions, 50 g IV is routinely prescribed, and for many, up to 200 grams.

Quote:

I have livon labs lipisomal C. Should I take some tonight? Or was the 25 grams today enough?

Thanks


Yes, and from your description, obviously 25 grams was not "enough". Livon advertisements claim that 5 packets at one time is equivalent to a 50 gram IV/C.
That is what I would start doing - 5 at a time, say every 12 hours.
And if the 5 to 50 equivalence holds, then instead of 500 grams of ordinary C, you would only require 50 grams of Livon Lypo-C (50 packets). Let us know.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:53 am
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 3:17 am
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Post Re: What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
Hi ofonorow,

Thanks for the reply. Great information! I think I'll be way more aggressive right from the start next time.

During this cold/virus I found that even with only 1000 mg of ascorbic acid I get diarrhea and I get gut burning even if I make the drink more alkaline. I know this is unusual.

I do much better with the livon labs packets. In the future, at the start of a cold can I do the packets every 20 minutes instead? If so, how many packets should I use?

Also, I use ozone insufflation daily. It really helps me, but it's confusing because vitamin C stops the effectiveness of this type of therapy. I believe I heard the half-life of the livon labs C is quite long. Do you have any thoughts on this?

And lastly, I take a glutathione IV once a week. I've been taking the livon labs C daily. On those days, should I do something different with the vitamin C? Does the livon labs vitamin C cause an oxidative process? And will the glutathione oppose it?

Thank you! Angie


Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:15 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
AngieLynn wrote:
Hi ofonorow,

Thanks for the reply. Great information! I think I'll be way more aggressive right from the start next time.

During this cold/virus I found that even with only 1000 mg of ascorbic acid I get diarrhea and I get gut burning even if I make the drink more alkaline. I know this is unusual.



You sound like my dad. Obviously liposomal is the answer. I don't usually recommend homemade, for a host of reasons, in your case, you should find out if you can take more than 1000 mg of homemade "liposomal", esp. given the expense of "true" liposomal vitamin C. (The homemade should provide better bioavialibity than the powder, using the best methods out there.)


Quote:
I do much better with the livon labs packets. In the future, at the start of a cold can I do the packets every 20 minutes instead? If so, how many packets should I use?


Good question and from what I think we are learning from another topic (glucose levels) (http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11219) the answer is no, with the exception of that which makes it through the mucous membranes of your mouth (little water as possible). Reason: it can take over 2 hours for the the liposomal vitamin C levels to peak in the blood.

Whereas pure ascorbic acid powder can peak blood levels in 15 minutes.

So an ideal approach might be the standard 8 g/ascorbic acid powder every 20 minutes for two hours - followed by a 5 packets of Lypo-c/Liposomal. (If you take the Lypo-C early, apparently it can capture the vitamin C preventing its early release into the blood stream.)


Quote:
Also, I use ozone insufflation daily. It really helps me, but it's confusing because vitamin C stops the effectiveness of this type of therapy. I believe I heard the half-life of the livon labs C is quite long. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Not sure what you mean by "insufflation"? Where/how is the ozone "insufflated?" I know there is a feeling the two therapies should be separated in time, but most (all) oxygen therapies are immediately broken down by catalase enzyme in the blood to water and and creating extra one or two oxygens in a very short time span. They create more oxygen in the blood. Whether vitamin C in the blood would react with oxygen is unknown by me, but I don't see why it would. Chemists??

Looks like the "half life" of true liposomal is something like 2-7 hours, (after peaking at 2-3 hours). But gain, truly encapsulated vitamin C in liposomes shouldn't react with oxygen, I wouldn't think.


Quote:
And lastly, I take a glutathione IV once a week. I've been taking the livon labs C daily. On those days, should I do something different with the vitamin C? Does the livon labs vitamin C cause an oxidative process? And will the glutathione oppose it?

Thank you! Angie

Thanks to alt docs, some of whom have contributed to this forum in the past, we know that Glutahione IV seems to work miracles - for largely unexplained reasons because GSH also have a very short half life in the blood. (I read 5 minutes and it doesn't enter cells??) Liposomal Glutathione (e.g LYPO-GSH) has an additional ability to enter cells, and thus may be even better than IV/GSH.

The antagonism between vitamin C and GSH seems related to fighting cancer, to my knowledge. Adding GSH/IV seems to protect cancer cells from extinction and is not recommended.

I have never heard that liposomal vitamin C works by an "oxidation" process - as Levy clearly explains in GSH Master Defender - the term "oxidation" is historical, and falsely implies oxygen, but really has nothing to do with oxygen atoms. Oxidation is a process of "stealing" electrons, and vitamin C is an electron donor.

Ordinary vitamin C does break down into the partially "oxidized" form DHA - and even Pauling wrote this (oxidized) face of vitamin C explains some of its properties, perhaps even its anti-viral effects inside cells.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:30 am
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 3:17 am
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Post Re: What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
So GSH and vitamin C would not oppose each other when it comes to vitamin C's anti-viral/bacterial qualities?


Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:47 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: What do I do now? Virus post Vit. C IV & feeling awful!
That depends, if vitamin C breaking down into DHA and quickly entering cells via the GLUT transporters, is the real anti-viral agent (oxidizing the virus), as one of our very smart posters once suggested, then in "theory" GSH at the same time in the blood might oppose.

And I still don't understand why IV/GSH has the effects is has (e.g., relieving parkinson's symptoms) with such a short existence in the blood and inability to enter cells.

These types of questions require research - both of existing papers and perhaps new experiments. Something we hope our Foundation might start contributing to soon. Vitamin C research.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:43 am
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