Medical Students examin Vit C and cold research

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Bobber
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Medical Students examin Vit C and cold research

Post Number:#1  Post by Bobber » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:17 pm

Here is a paper (PDF) done by students at Washington University medical school. It is an overview of vitamin C and common cold research. I thought everyone would be interested in seeing how these students present Linus Pauling and the issue of vitamin C and the common cold. In my opinion, there is an undue focus on Pauling and even some blame suggesting that a large placebo effect was induced by him and his book on the subject.
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Post Number:#2  Post by Dolev » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:44 pm

If someone would take 5 mg of aspirin for a headache and it didn't help him, could he conclude that aspirin is not effective for headaches?

Pauling used his great reputation to cast a world-wide placebo effect. That's a good one :!: :D :lol: :P :D :lol: :o :lol: :P He also made me into a genius, because my flock also gets helped :!: :lol: Good God, what an idea :!: Maybe they could find someone to placebo-up a cure for cancer. Let's see, who's the most famous and believable person in the world?
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Post Number:#3  Post by zucic » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:54 am

Bobber wrote:I thought everyone would be interested in seeing how these students present Linus Pauling and the issue of vitamin C and the common cold.

Just repeating old bad science, reviewing data collected before new findings about ascorbate pharmacology. All doses are most likely single doses, far below 5 grams daily. And there is no mention about glucose ascorbate antagonism. There is a good chance that examined subjects had far too much sugar in their diets. The adviser name is cited as Tom Defer, but I think the full name may be:
Thomas M. De Fer,
http://wuphysicians.wustl.edu/physician ... ysNum=1072
http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/3880.html
He is an internist.
In some documents the name is spelled as Thomas M. Defer.
He is involved in the program called "Mentors in Medicine".
There is a page which describes this program and lists sponsors (Pfizer, Takeda, Wyeth, Novartis):
http://outlook.wustl.edu/summer2005/mentors.html

Read it, it's interesting!

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Post Number:#4  Post by Bobber » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:35 am

Dr. Zucic,
Totally agree with you. But even more surprising is that they do not even come close to following the recomendations of Pauling which they are clearly trying to refute. Pauling sugggested 8 or more grams a day for prevention and good healht. I believe he suggested 12 hour periods (so 4 grams in the morning and 4 at night). Then, at the onset of symptoms, a gram per hour and increasing until symtoms decrease. There is no indication in any of the studies reviewed that these protocols were followed. So, even though we have more information on how ascorbate works than Pauling did, they still did not even try to duplicate Pauling suggestions from the time!
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Post Number:#5  Post by ascorbicjoe » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:52 am

Most cold studies are ridiculous! They never ramp up the dosage during an illness. A cold demands more vitamin c and even 3 grams a day will not really make a dent in reducing it.

It is not unlike how much water do you need to maintain your home. Normally, you need a little to wash stuff and water the plants. However, when your house catches fire that little amount will not match the immediate demand.

Joe

zucic

Post Number:#6  Post by zucic » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:14 pm

Bobber wrote:Dr. Zucic,
So, even though we have more information on how ascorbate works than Pauling did, they still did not even try to duplicate Pauling suggestions from the time!


Well, if they have duplicated his protocol, they will get positive results! Pauling also complained that sometimes the positive results achieved even with low doses were missinterpreted as negative.

I was never in USA, but whenever someone returns from this side of the ocean, I ask him/her about food. The answers range from "bad" to "disguisting". When I ask for more details, a typical comments are "too sweet", "cakes contain more sugar than flour" etc.

Linus Pauling said also that sugar intake should be reduced.

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Post Number:#7  Post by ascorbicjoe » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:39 am

zucic wrote:I was never in USA, but whenever someone returns from this side of the ocean, I ask him/her about food. The answers range from "bad" to "disguisting". When I ask for more details, a typical comments are "too sweet", "cakes contain more sugar than flour" etc.

Linus Pauling said also that sugar intake should be reduced.


I agree. Even organic packaged foods tend to follow the current sugar trends of America. Some are not too bad, but I feel I will end up making everything from scratch from basic ingredients.

zucic

Sugar trends

Post Number:#8  Post by zucic » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 am

ascorbicjoe wrote:Even organic packaged foods tend to follow the current sugar trends of America.

The same happens in transitional (former communist) countries. In the past, farmers were not allowed to posses more than 17 acres of land or so, so it simply didn't make sense to push hard and increase production (basic foods were overproduced anyway). Industrial goods were of inferior quality (the famous Yugo cars, for example), but food was great, and health care gave a good value for money. Now things are changing. The tasteless food from EU is significantly cheaper than local products. This is pushing local farmers to increase efficiency. For some reason, sweetness seems to be the converging point for plant derived foods! I guess that GMO technology will also go this way.

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Vitamin c and the common cold paper

Post Number:#9  Post by antioxidant_addict » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:07 am

Read it. What a load of @@@@.

1-2grams...WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. These "experts" obviously do not want to read up on mega ascorbate therapy and they've completely organised the study to make it fail. With all the evidence, just how do they think that 1-2grams will do anything? I suppose it would stop people from dying. They'd feel miserable though for the duration of virus.

It makes me wonder if they actually in fact [/b]know[/i] all about it, and makes me suspect that they're part of the nasty conspiracy theory to keep the pharmas in a state of perpetual world power.

I'm starting to get really annoyed about it now so I'll say simply at the people in charge of the study should be sacked(fired) and stripped of their jobs. Toss pots.

I killed all the symptoms of the flu (and it was influenza) in about 24 hours. After a week, I'd gone through 500grams of AA, knew that I still had the virus, but had no symptoms. The trick is to do BT as son as symptoms start to show (enlarged glands,sore throat, dry cough,headache,dizzines combined with tiredness.)

How is it that me, a layman with only a high school Chemsitry qualification, understand the workings of Ascorbic Acid, and yet these boneheads do not???
This was simply after reading one book about it, and testing the 8grams every 20 minutes therapy, as per Vitcfoundations web site.

As far I as I understand it, the ascorbate simply neutralises the free radicals caused by the virus, and boosts the entire immune system to kill off the virus with ease.But only when bowel tolerance has been achieved. Simple. Vitamin C can't prevent virus's getting into the body of course, but if you take say 20grams year round, you'll hardly notice any infections year round. When you do feel under attack, just take more until BTol happens, then take 1-2grams every hour or so. Am I missing something? This is what I do, and I haven't suffered when "under attack" for around 2 years. Amazing stuff and simple to do.

Its just a shame that the idiots in charge of the study can't understand or organise how to milk a cow.

Got off my soapbox now.
:cry: [/b]

zucic

Re: Vitamin c and the common cold paper

Post Number:#10  Post by zucic » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:45 am

> 1-2grams...WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. These "experts"
> obviously to not want to read up on mega ascorbate therapy
> and they've completely organised the study to make it fail.

These experts certainly know that megaascorbate therapy works,
and they know that there is some magic in the "safe limit" of
2 grams.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/prin ... aminc.html

The really bad thing is that students are learned to hide the
opposite views, evidence and references. They hide even such
facts as the existence of Robert F. Cathcart, and his entire experience.

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Post Number:#11  Post by chimp » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:39 am

I made it through my first winter without getting a cold. It appears that vitamin C works, in my case. Or it could be a placebo effect? I suspect that it is a real effect though :wink:

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Post Number:#12  Post by Dolev » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:34 pm

Chimp,

Congrats. You and about a million other people. Simple as can be to wipe out the common cold.

Dolev

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Vitamin C and The Common Cold reduced CVD 50%

Post Number:#13  Post by Ralph Lotz » Thu May 18, 2006 7:47 pm

It’s a resurgence that would cause Dr. Linus Pauling to be elated, having started one of these revivals in 1970 with the publication of his book, Vitamin C and the Common Cold. The consumption of vitamin C is reported to have jumped then by 300% and a dramatic drop in the mortality rate from coronary heart disease followed (public health authorities failed to report this). Dr. Pauling went on to write other books on vitamin C in 1986 and 1993 regarding cancer and longevity. During that era, before angioplasty, statin drugs or aspirin therapy were being touted, the number of annual deaths per 100,000 Americans due to coronary heart disease dropped from nearly 500 to about 250. [NIH Data]


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Re: Medical Students examin Vit C and cold research

Post Number:#14  Post by VanCanada » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:14 pm

:arrow:
:arrow: Bump
:arrow:


This is one of the best threads on this forum. I'm glad I stumbled across it.


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