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 Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally 
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Vitamin C Expert
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Post Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally
This is probably the wrong forum for this. It's more homeopathic vs ortho-melecular, but I know Dr Winston Price was able to reverse tooth decay in her patients with Healthy oils, etc.

Just wondering if anybody know a specific protocol? I've had some mild decay on the buckles of a couple of my lower teeth for about 12 years now. And now my dentist is just now saying it's finally just broken through the enamel. But I'm really skeptical because for 12 years they've just been saying I had some exposed roots and that's what's causing the sensitivity. Now they're saying the roots aren't exposed, the teeth are just degenerating.

Well, I know nutrition place an important roll in the health of teeth. And it took 12 years for them to say these teeth they were watching to actually breakthrough the enamel, so I feel like I start eating healthy I should be able to reverse the damage.

Tracy


Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:33 am
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Vitamin C Expert
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It goes like this:

Fish oil, 500mg DHA/EPA
Vitamin K2 MK7 1mg (or LEF Super K)
Coenzime Q10 30-100 mg
Magnesium 600mg
Vitamin C 1-10g
Low carb diet

First 2 are from weston price protocol (fish oil + butter i.e. Factor X to heal teeth).
http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble ... vitamin-k2

Vitamin C is suggested on weston price as invisible tootbrush
http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/i ... toothbrush

Other are from literature.

The last one is very important, probably for life if you don't want bad teeth. It virtually eliminates carries and teeth problems. I know I didnt visit dentist once after adopting it (vs ~5-10 times per year before )
http://thrivewithdiabetes.com/doc/Carbo ... seases.pdf

Let us know how it went.


Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:45 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Not a bad forum, since a dentist in the fifties wrote a booklet that in effect reported his observation that when patients consumed more than 6000 mg of vitamin C daily, they didn't have dental carries! No tooth decay.

Several people I know who wouldn't take C for other reasons, started taking it on the outside chance it would keep them out of the dentist's chair!

In my case, I have anecdotally experienced what this dentist reported, as a hoard of cavitites B. C. (before 6 grams of vitamin C, and nary a dental carrie since!) Note: Apparently you can still get dental infections!!!!!!!)

Dr. Levy has written (Primal Panacea) of the evidence showing the osteoporosis is "bone scurvy", in other words, bones weaken from a lack of vitamin C. Teeth are pretty bone like :D

And again, I have had proof that my "bones" are pretty strong as my dentist was unable to remove a wisdom tooth - and she tried!

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Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:11 am
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So That's 6 grams of regular oral VC. But that's just for maintenance right? So if I'm wanting to actually repair, I should probably be taking significantly more.

I just got a bottle of LyPo C from Lets Talk Health, and I'm going to take 2 grams in the morning of that, and 2 grams in the afternoon, Plus my regular oral VC regimin. That should ramp up the production of bone collagen I would think.

I'm wondering though if I should be taking Phosphorous supplements. That's the main other mineral besides Calcium that Weston Price seems to emphasize in the theoretical construct.


Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:27 am
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Also, do you think gargling with Sodium Ascorbate would help to get the VC directly into the gums and teeth?

I wouldn't want to use AA because it's likely too acidic.

Tracy


Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:36 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Sounds like a great idea, esp. if sodium ascorbate is as anti-microbial as Dr. Cathcart says. I would use the 50% solution. Say 2 g in 2 cc of water, etc.

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Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:46 am
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Gargling sodium ascorbate is a good idea. Let me know how that works out because I will start buying sodium ascorbate powder if it works for you.


Side note- I was at the dentist recently and for the first time ever when they flossed my teeth my gums didn't bleed. I can only attribute this to high doses of vc. I am horrible at remembering to floss my teeth and usually my gums bleed like crazy when I do floss.

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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally
Price painted teeth with butter oil. from butter produced only by cows eating rapidly growing grass, hence usually but not always spring butter. Stopped and reversed caries. This was "activator X" pretty conclusively identified as V-K2 now.

I did everything said to be good for teeth and gums- niacin, V-C, Mg, etc. but not K2 as I didn't know about it. And a lot of $$$ and time and dental floss and such. Caries stopped once I did these things, periodontal slowed but was always lurking. Everything "helped", nothing fixed it until I decided to take V-A to the point of eliminating V-A deficiency symptoms (for other things) until they were gone by my understanding, instead of listening to BS about "maximum" doses. At 80,000 IU/day, my gum conditions cleared and have stayed clear. I haven't been to a dentist in 21 years or flossed my teeth in 15.
Unfortunately, the decay from childhood and the incompetent care after and the limitation on V-A I had believed cost me a bunch of teeth before I figured this out.
I have since found that other things which affect V-A status help even more - iodine, selenium, V-E. I have been down to 40,000 V-A lately, right in line with my understanding of Price's findings.

FRM


Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:49 pm
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Interesting gofanu. Could you be a little more specific ?
What kind of A do you take ? Does it include beta carotene or is pure animal type ?

Vitamin A toxicity is contextual. If you are good with D and K2, there is no need to fear even with large doses you take.


Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:20 am
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10,000A, 400D from fish liver oils. x whatever/day 4 or 8 recently
plus D3 2000 x 4 /day currently
Beta carotene is not much use, and for many people no use.
The entire "vitamin A is evil" thing is nonsense and has no basis in fact, unless you are totally without D (and C).
Thing is, I was taking 40,000 IU A for many years and still having borderline gum problems, but 80,000 stopped it.
I will put the Periodontists out of business!
And I am very pissed that my wife succumbed to the OB/gynecologist's insistence that she reduce her vitamin A from her 30,000 to 10,000 max during pregnancy, so that my daughter had to have braces. But we had not read Price then -and neither did the damned doctors.
I will put the orthodontists out of business too!

Note that both my Periodontist (he was pretty radical for his tribe - suggested I take 500 mg C before and after dental surgery, but I was already taking 5-10 gm/day!) and daughter's Orthodontist were wonderful people and very nice, but their minds had been messed with. And they got paid well, until I had no more money, and daughter had straight teeth.

FRM


Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:42 am
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Post Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally
How do you find 10K IU A in fish oil ?
Here, that is the dose in 100g of oil.

Quote:
40,000 IU A for many years and still having borderline gum problems, but 80,000 stopped it.


Ha ha... insane... I am not sure if that advice is applicable on majority .... perhaps you have some kind of genetic vitamin A deficiency if such big amounts are needed for you. Or vitamin A is safer then promoted.


Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:28 am
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"How do you find 10K IU A in fish oil ?
Here, that is the dose in 100g of oil."
>>Puritan.com = cheap

"Quote:
40,000 IU A for many years and still having borderline gum problems, but 80,000 stopped it.

Ha ha... insane... I am not sure if that advice is applicable on majority .... perhaps you have some kind of genetic vitamin A deficiency if such big amounts are needed for you."
>> Maybe. Now recognize I have had symptoms since childhood, plus I work under fluorescent lamps, weld, drive a lot at night, and now computers = all destroy V-A.
Also, since V-C, V-E, iodine and selenium are all protective of V-A, shortages of those come in. Certainly my recent/current high I & Se have shown results normally ascribed to A & E, hence my recent reduction of A back to 40,000.

"Or vitamin A is safer then promoted."
>>understatement of the year! I had the original statement of the following but lost it in a computer perfluxation. So this is a fair reconstruction:

Vitamin A -
Party line is 10,000IU/day. Here's how they got this: people were given A in large quantities for long periods, like a year or more. It was found that some few people showed overdose symptoms at 100,000IU/day, while others showed no such at 100,000,000 IU/day. So, they arbitrarily divided the lowest exposure by ten, so that nobody could possibly show overdose symptoms. This was at the time the "minimum daily requirement"; it gradually became "daily recommendation" and has now inexplicably become the maximum dose. I read today in "Scientific American" no less, that "Vitamin A in doses over 10,000IU/day is dangerous". This is entirely hogwash, neglecting both the overall amounts and the individual variation established in the original determinations, known factors requiring more (necessity to use night vision a lot, bright light, fluorescent light, TV/monitor exposure, and disease states). Remember being locked in a dark room for measles, so you didn't go blind? That's because measles completely destroys A, to the point of destroying the optic nerve or retina (can't remember which)- something like 100,000IU/day of A will prevent that AND get rid of the measles in very short order.
Among other things, A is essential to the proper maturation of epithelial cells - that's the skin and mucous membranes which line your insides, including the little pipes that make up your kidneys. Without A, they grow too fast, but don't mature; they then flake off, plugging up the pipes. They also don't produce mucous correctly, and thereby fail to prevent bacteria from getting into the membranes. That's how you get colds and such, including virtually all infections. Further, the flaked off cells act as food for bacteria, creating a nice incubator for evil things.
Many eye problems are a result of A deficiency
M&M take 30,000-50,000 IU/day; I did too, for a long time, but was still showing deficiency symptoms (ALL my friggin' life!). When I found out what was the "basis" for the recommendations, I started increasing my intake. I took 80,000/day for several months until everything cleared up, then went back down to 40,000 - not enough, so I went to 70,000 - OK; then back to 50,000 = not enough, so back to 70,000; will try 60,000 sometime.
A is commonly sold in 10,000IU caps since that's the "maximum" permitted by law. It generally comes with 400IU of vit D, see below. Should be "from fish liver oils"

FRM


Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:56 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Thank you gofanu. That is terrific information, and likely applicable to a great many people.

An associate to the late Dr. Roger J. Williams (Don Davis) wrote the following article which he allowed us to post: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/journal/mega2.1.html

And the only death Dr. Davis was able to find in the medical literature - occurred from Beta Carotene! (At least from carrot juice).

We had one poster who claimed to have vitamin A toxicity, and he also claimed that just stopping did not clear his problems, but again, that was one poster who we really know nothing about. (If you are still with us, let us know what happened.)

As gofanu points out, one real threat that vitamin A poses to medicine is to chemotherapy, as vitamin A encourages cell differentiation... Cell differentiation is the "death" of aggressive undifferentiated cancer cells.

Linus Pauling's recommendation of 25,000 iu daily, while low, should be okay for most people over time, as they build up their stores in the liver. Vitamin A is so important that we have evolved to store this vitamin in the liver (so we can survive during times of low vitamin A intake.)

And I will not forgive LPI for editing Pauling's HTLLAFB (2005 edition) to asterisk Pauling's vitamin A recommendation!!! Don't get me started on LPI...


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Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:26 am
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Post Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally
@gofanu:

Can you provide me links about that megadose vitamin A tests ?
I am interested in vitamin A as regulator of adipogenicity. In some studies only 100mg of vitamin A (~330 000 IU AFAIK) reduced in rats fat tissue about 40% without any change in the diet. Do you have any observations in that direction maybe, since you were taking very high doses for very long time ?


Bonet, M L, J Ribot, F Felipe, and A Palou. “Vitamin A and the Regulation of Fat Reserves.” Cellular and Molecular Life Sciences: CMLS 60, no. 7 (July 2003): 1311–1321. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12943220.


Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:03 am
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Post Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally
Maj-
All that stuff was long before electronic media, which is why after I found it online I was so upset to lose it. But the bit I wrote (a few years ago to my sister) is pretty good from print sources and memory. Adelle Davis has a lot of it scattered in her books.
I just haven't been able to find that story again, as such.
Good place to start is here:
"A history of vitamin A and retinoids"
July 1, 1996 The FASEB Journal vol. 10 no. 9 1102-1107
and start searching the sources to see what turns up.

And a good overall review:
"Safety of Vitamin A" Bendich and Langseth
Am J Clin Nutr l989;49:358-71.

I personally am coming to the view that "toxicity" of V-A may be due to toxicity of OXIDISED V-A, and that can be prevented by C, D, E, and as I've found lately, iodine/selenium. Or, oxidation of V-A may deplete any/some/all of these, all of which are deficient in the general population, so that the "toxicity" is actually other induced deficiencies. Therefore high doses of some or any combination of these may be protective. This explains a lot of mysterious variation and apparently conflicting data, and might also apply as a principle to other "whole body" situations.

Owen - I did NOT say anything about cell differentiation above, but it does also apply. I was talking about maturation, and therefore function, of cells already differentiated.

Latest thought is that 1/6 of the proteome is in some way regulated by V-A. The Proteome is all the proteins produced by the genome AND their interactions, so is far more complex than the genome.

Here's a rather astounding study abstract (no full text access) involving V-A, folate, choline:
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/artic ... 4/abstract

The above V-A toxicity report cites 200 cases of hypervitaminosis A/year, vs 1 million V-A deficiency, world wide. The cases of excess are clearly gross errors in part. From what I've seen virtually everybody except me has clear deficiencies sufficient to be noticeable, so I think the "deficiency" side is very much higher, likely several orders of magnitude. The annoying to life threatening effects of deficiency lead me to suggest that everybody increase their V-A, maybe not to my levels, but certainly to Pauling's. This is precisely the situation we know with respect to V-C, and I think numerous other nutrients. The deficiencies are sickening or killing far more people than any possible excess could or will.

FRM


Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:47 pm
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