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 Proof that the unblocking of arteries has occurred 
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post The reason I asked
The reason I asked is because if you are on the standard protocol - the Purple pill or another nuclear acid blocker (proton pump inhibitor you won't have enough stomach acid to absorb many nutrients - including vitamin C. This could explain a great deal.

In any event, I would suggest taking more of your C as sodium ascorbate.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:45 pm
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Post No, I'm not taking any medication that reduce stomach acid
I've reached full titration in regards to my vitamin C intake, I cannot stomach any more than what I'm currently taking.


Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:14 pm
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Post I just had my cholesterol lab work done, except for LPA
My doctor was adamant that I did not need it. I will try and ask him again to see if he will authorize the analysis of the lpa levels in the next week.

I'm curious to see what my lab results show after being on the protocol and not having any tests done for almost 5 months now.


Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:16 pm
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Post Re: I just had my cholesterol lab work done, except for LPA
jonscubas wrote:
My doctor was adamant that I did not need it. I will try and ask him again to see if he will authorize the analysis of the lpa levels in the next week.

I'm curious to see what my lab results show after being on the protocol and not having any tests done for almost 5 months now.




Here are my results from April of this year compared to the results I just received for my current results as of yesterday:

As of 4/16/07
Total Cholesterol - 163 mg/dl
Triglycerides - 122 mg/dl
HDL - 56 mg/dl
LDL "Bad" - 83 mg/dl


As of 9/14/07
Total Cholesterol - 199 mg/dl
Triglycerides - 136 mg/dl
HDL - 43 mg/dl
LDL "Bad" - 129 mg/dl



I'm going back on Red Yeast rice, I'm concerned that even my HDL went down. This really sucks.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:55 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Artificially Lower Cholesterol
Well, I don't think your cholesterol numbers (total around 200 mg/dl) are something to be concerned about, but I would like to see the Lp(a) number too. There is no question that drugs or the "natural plant poison" lowers serum cholesterol. The only question is whether the drugs promote better or worse health. (By the way, it is likely the red yeast rice elevates Lp(a) in the same manner of the statin drugs, as reported in advertisements in the canadian version of the NEJM/)
See: http://naturesperfectstatin.com/canada.htm

Why do you think your body is "naturally" producing so much cholesterol?

I know that you are not buying the concept that your body produces cholesterol as a protective mechanism, in the same way it produces more mucous in the sinus in response to infection, otherwise you wouldn't be in such a hurry to treat the symptom. But it was Dr. Thomas Levy who opened my eyes to the idea that cholesterol is one of the body's primary detoxification mechanisms. A protective mechanism, that Levy found (in the literature) rises in response to toxic load. These are repeatable experiments.

You may not be experiencing relief from the extra vitamin C and lysine, but I doubt very much that you will experience relief of your symptoms by artificially lowering your body's response to what-ever is going wrong.

Please let us know how you react to the reintoduction of red yeast rice.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:41 am
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Post Owen what about Intravenous Clinical Vitamin C Treatment
How effective is this treatment versus taking orally like the products mentioned on this site. How much more potent would say taking 100Grams of Clinical Vitamin C be taking it through the veins, then ascorbic powdered Vitamin C.


Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:24 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Cathcart Videos
The late doctor Cathcart answers this question on one of the videos at
http://vitamincfoundation.org/videos

In a nutshell, from memory, ascorbic acid is twice as effective as sodium ascorbate orally.

However, only sodium ascorbate can be used IV.

The IV is (4 or 5 times?) as effective as oral administration.

The net effect is that the IV as sodium ascorbate is twice(?) as effective as ascorbic acid orally.

Whether the above numbers are precise (I'll fix them or someone will correct them) the point is that you can not and probably should not be tied to an IV for long periods of time, unless you are treating cancer.

Cathcart recommended pills of ascorbic acid when ever possible.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Cathcart Videos
ofonorow wrote:
The late doctor Cathcart answers this question on one of the videos at
http://vitamincfoundation.org/videos

In a nutshell, from memory, ascorbic acid is twice as effective as sodium ascorbate orally.

However, only sodium ascorbate can be used IV.

The IV is (4 or 5 times?) as effective as oral administration.

The net effect is that the IV as sodium ascorbate is twice(?) as effective as ascorbic acid orally.

Whether the above numbers are precise (I'll fix them or someone will correct them) the point is that you can not and probably should not be tied to an IV for long periods of time, unless you are treating cancer.

Cathcart recommended pills of ascorbic acid when ever possible.











I'm wondering what affect it would have on unblocking or breaking down plaque in the arteries?


Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:24 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Dynamic Flow is better for Heart Disease
Quote:
I'm wondering what affect it would have on unblocking or breaking down plaque in the arteries?


I think Hickey/Roberts are basically correct, and humans need to maintain dynamic flow - just as the animals making vitamin C do. This means at least 500 mg orally every 4 hours. Not necessarily very high amounts for short periods (the cure for viral infections and potentially cancer.)

There is a large movement in alternative medicine devoted to IV EDTA chelation, which has had positive effects. I'd advocate the entire protocol (including IV ascorbate) if you want to try an IV approach, but I have enough experience to know this isn't the permanent answer, at least for the people who contact us.

Now I don't know how many, if any, doctors try to add lysine to the IV.

Plus there are all the issues that Levy writes about in STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER. If the narrowing has progressed from a white plaque to something more like callous, with capillaries, etc. then it will take longer for the artery, under constant pressure from the heart beat, to return to normal.

If you have a low bowel tolerance, then an intermediate step is to get more ascorbate into your system following the dynamic flow model with a product like Lypo-C livonlabs.com.


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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:24 am
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Owen,

Do you have any recommendation for non-IV EDTA? Is it worthwhile? Any brands stand out?

Also how does EDTA therapy compare to IP6?

Thanks.


Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:48 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Post Not an IP6 Expert
wfleitz wrote:
Owen,

Do you have any recommendation for non-IV EDTA? Is it worthwhile? Any brands stand out?

Also how does EDTA therapy compare to IP6?

Thanks.


Great question for Ralph Lotz. (I'm not an IP6 expert, but Ralph is working hard to change that :) )

I really have no opinion on so-called "oral" EDTA. Does it complement vitamin C and lysine in any way? I don't know. If the intent is to help remove calcium, then I would prefer vitamin K.

I have read enough about the anecdotal success stories from patients on IV EDTA chelation therapy (vision returning, etc.) that I understand how and why the doctors who administer it consider it a miracle therapy.

I have had some IV EDTA chelation, but I did it for the profound (but little publicized) anti-cancer effect.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:48 pm
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Post 
Thanks for your response Owen. I am curious how does Vitamin K work to help remove calcium? Also what type is recommended (e.g., K2, menaquinone, etc.)

Bill


Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:00 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Hoping Ralph would Reply
Ralph has answered this question and I was hoping he would reply.

Here is an excellent overview article from Life Extension Foundation about vitamin K and its anti-calcium properties

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 am
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