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 After 18 months on HT 
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Post After 18 months on HT
I wrote to this forum last year regarding my atrial fibrillation and the desire to give up my meds, I was taking lipitor, sotalol, warfarin, and digoxin. While taking lipitor my cholesterol was 5.6. As a result of the feedback I have now been on Heart Technology for 18 months (4 teasp daily) and as well take magnesium, coq10 and fish oil. I stopped all my meds at that time with the exception of warfarin. My cardiologist scared me too much to give that up. I also had all my mercury fillings removed at great expense hoping it might have some effect on my cholesterol reading and AF. About a month ago I went to my quite liberal thinking doctor to get my latest cholesterol results and my total cholesterol is now up to 7.9, triglyceride 3.6 there is no reading for ldl. He started quoting all sorts of statistics at me and when I told him about the vit. c therapy he told me about all the misinformation on the net and convinced me I should go on Crestor to bring it down. I took his advice for about 3 weeks during which time my phantom limb pain (arm amputation as a result of accident) became unbearable, I stopped the crestor a few days ago and it seems to have improved I don't know if its a coincidence or not. I really don't want to take any drugs but there is a strong family history of heart problems and my parents now in their 80s believe it is only all their meds that have kept them alive.
I was hoping that 18 months on HT would have shown some improvement, and I was hoping that the fish oils would have influenced the INR readings to enable me to cut the warfarin back (I don't know if it works like that or not). I really don't know now what to do but would be grateful for any advice I can get. I am otherwise healthy apart from very painful feet that no-one can find a cause for. My blood pressure is always normal. I am 59 male. I am in permanent AF but it doesn't cause me any problems.


Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:02 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Cholesterol
If I understand your post, your judging your progress on your cholesterol level? Are there any other objective measures? What about the atrial fib? And importantly how are you feeling? Did you feel better, or worse after dropping the meds and starting the Pauling therapy? You mention feeling well, except for your feet, where there any differences?


I'd also need to know your vitamin C bowel tolerance. (You say for example you are taking 2 servings, or 6000 mg (6 grams), but if your vitamin C bowel tolerance is closer to 20,000 mg (20 g), then you may have to add additional vitamin C to the HeartTechnology formula. We are all biologically different )

I am not familiar with your cholesterol units, buf it high, that is an indicator of a toxic load and/or your vitamin C intake is still too low. Root canals?

Other major issues are blood sugar, possible dental toxicity, and of course, the warfarin - as this "rat poision" causes rapid calcification of soft tissues. You are wise to stop Crestor, but make sure you keep getting a good amount of magnesium and micrograms of vitamin K2 to help counteract the calcium build-up.

Based on rereading your post, I would add at least 500 mg of vitamin C every 4 hours between the HT servings and start vitamin K2.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:38 am
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Post thanks for your reply Owen
I guess I was judging my progress by my cholesterol levels, the doctor really scared me. However looking at it in context I do feel much better being on the Pauling therapy, my atrial fib hasn't changed and I don't expect now that it will, the major problem with it is having to be on the warfarin, if you can lead me to any information that may give my doctor second thoughts on this I would appreciate it.
I will start on the extra vit c straight away. I cannot find a supplier of vit k2 in Aust., are you able to give me the name of a recommended source from your end of the world? I am taking 100mg daily of coQ10 and 4 x 1000mg fish oil is that enough of those in your opinion? Once I get the k2 how much should I take of it?
My blood sugar levels are fine and I have no dental toxicity now having had all the mercury removed.
I thank you for your advice.


Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:44 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9078
Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Medline database
Well, Your doctor learns what he thinks he knows from drug companies.

However, this link points to the US MEDLINE database:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... id=9743228

It currently points to some 156 studies that indicate the calcification problem, and if you want to print off 156 abstracts, that might impress the doctor.

I'll leave the K2 question to Ralph Lotz. Check out his posts on K2 and there is a web site he likes.

for the record, in case this search ever goes away..

Quote:

Items 1 - 20 of 156Page of 8Next
1: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Faus SA, Williamson MK.

Warfarin causes rapid calcification of the elastic lamellae in rat arteries and heart valves.
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PMID: 9743228 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]2: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Faus SA, Williamson MK.

Warfarin-induced artery calcification is accelerated by growth and vitamin D.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2000 Feb;20(2):317-27.
PMID: 10669626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]3: Related Articles, LinksSchurgers LJ, Spronk HM, Soute BA, Schiffers PM, DeMey JG, Vermeer C.

Regression of warfarin-induced medial elastocalcinosis by high intake of vitamin K in rats.
Blood. 2007 Apr 1;109(7):2823-31.
PMID: 17138823 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]4: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Faus SA, Williamson MK.

Bisphosphonates alendronate and ibandronate inhibit artery calcification at doses comparable to those that inhibit bone resorption.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2001 May;21(5):817-24.
PMID: 11348880 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]5: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Chan WS, Jolson DM, Williamson MK.

The elastic lamellae of devitalized arteries calcify when incubated in serum: evidence for a serum calcification factor.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2006 May;26(5):1079-85. Epub 2006 Mar 9.
PMID: 16528009 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]6: Related Articles, LinksShanahan CM, Proudfoot D, Farzaneh-Far A, Weissberg PL.

The role of Gla proteins in vascular calcification.
Crit Rev Eukaryot Gene Expr. 1998;8(3-4):357-75. Review.
PMID: 9807700 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]7: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, June HH, Buckley JR, Williamson MK.

Osteoprotegerin inhibits artery calcification induced by warfarin and by vitamin D.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2001 Oct;21(10):1610-6.
PMID: 11597934 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]8: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Buckley JR, Williamson MK.

The amino bisphosphonate ibandronate prevents vitamin D toxicity and inhibits vitamin D-induced calcification of arteries, cartilage, lungs and kidneys in rats.
J Nutr. 2001 Nov;131(11):2910-5.
PMID: 11694617 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]9: Related Articles, LinksSchurgers LJ, Dissel PE, Spronk HM, Soute BA, Dhore CR, Cleutjens JP, Vermeer C.

Role of vitamin K and vitamin K-dependent proteins in vascular calcification.
Z Kardiol. 2001;90 Suppl 3:57-63.
PMID: 11374034 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]10: Related Articles, LinksSpronk HM, Soute BA, Schurgers LJ, Cleutjens JP, Thijssen HH, De Mey JG, Vermeer C.

Matrix Gla protein accumulates at the border of regions of calcification and normal tissue in the media of the arterial vessel wall.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2001 Nov 30;289(2):485-90.
PMID: 11716499 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]11: Related Articles, LinksWallin R, Cain D, Sane DC.

Matrix Gla protein synthesis and gamma-carboxylation in the aortic vessel wall and proliferating vascular smooth muscle cells--a cell system which resembles the system in bone cells.
Thromb Haemost. 1999 Dec;82(6):1764-7.
PMID: 10613667 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]12: Related Articles, LinksSchurgers LJ, Teunissen KJ, Knapen MH, Kwaijtaal M, van Diest R, Appels A, Reutelingsperger CP, Cleutjens JP, Vermeer C.

Novel conformation-specific antibodies against matrix gamma-carboxyglutamic acid (Gla) protein: undercarboxylated matrix Gla protein as marker for vascular calcification.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2005 Aug;25(8):1629-33. Epub 2005 Jun 16.
PMID: 15961706 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]13: Related Articles, LinksHowe AM, Webster WS.

Warfarin exposure and calcification of the arterial system in the rat.
Int J Exp Pathol. 2000 Feb;81(1):51-6.
PMID: 10718864 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]14: Related Articles, LinksSpeer MY, McKee MD, Guldberg RE, Liaw L, Yang HY, Tung E, Karsenty G, Giachelli CM.

Inactivation of the osteopontin gene enhances vascular calcification of matrix Gla protein-deficient mice: evidence for osteopontin as an inducible inhibitor of vascular calcification in vivo.
J Exp Med. 2002 Oct 21;196(8):1047-55.
PMID: 12391016 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]15: Related Articles, LinksSato Y, Nakamura R, Satoh M, Fujishita K, Mori S, Ishida S, Yamaguchi T, Inoue K, Nagao T, Ohno Y.

Thyroid hormone targets matrix Gla protein gene associated with vascular smooth muscle calcification.
Circ Res. 2005 Sep 16;97(6):550-7. Epub 2005 Aug 11.
PMID: 16100044 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]16: Related Articles, LinksSweatt A, Sane DC, Hutson SM, Wallin R.

Matrix Gla protein (MGP) and bone morphogenetic protein-2 in aortic calcified lesions of aging rats.
J Thromb Haemost. 2003 Jan;1(1):178-85.
PMID: 12871556 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]17: Related Articles, LinksEssalihi R, Dao HH, Yamaguchi N, Moreau P.

A new model of isolated systolic hypertension induced by chronic warfarin and vitamin K1 treatment.
Am J Hypertens. 2003 Feb;16(2):103-10.
PMID: 12559675 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]18: Related Articles, LinksLalaoui MZ, El Midaoui A, de Champlain J, Moreau P.

Is there a role for reactive oxygen species in arterial medial elastocalcinosis?
Vascul Pharmacol. 2007 Mar;46(3):201-6. Epub 2006 Oct 19.
PMID: 17127099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]19: Related Articles, LinksPrice PA, Thomas GR, Pardini AW, Figueira WF, Caputo JM, Williamson MK.

Discovery of a high molecular weight complex of calcium, phosphate, fetuin, and matrix gamma-carboxyglutamic acid protein in the serum of etidronate-treated rats.
J Biol Chem. 2002 Feb 8;277(6):3926-34. Epub 2001 Nov 27.
PMID: 11724771 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]20: Related Articles, LinksHowe AM, Webster WS.

The warfarin embryopathy: a rat model showing maxillonasal hypoplasia and other skeletal disturbances.
Teratology. 1992 Oct;46(4):379-90.
PMID: 1412066 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

_________________
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:59 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
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Post Continuing progress reports
Quote:
Hi Owen,

In this case the term "settled down", what I mean is that the benefits of vitamin C have
stabilised. That is, I can bend over and pick things up from the floor without losing my
breath. My energy levels are far greater than they were before stopping statins, and have continued to increase since taking Tower A9 at 18gm per day.

I have no problems with you using my name. I don't think much of anonymous references. If I make it over to Arizona in April I'll catch up with you. I will probably have a few diversions so far as the itinery is concerned.

Regards,

Alan Oliver, Australia

_________________
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:29 pm
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