High Blood Pressure & Elevated Heart rate

[Marjorie]

I have high blood pressure. Without meds it runs around 210/110. It is under control with clonidine.

I was able to completely get rid of it by going on an all fruit diet with no salt. First I did a juice fast for 6 days (carrot,apple,celery, mostly), Then I began eating fruit. Watermelon, cantelope, cherries, grapes, oranges, etc. I started feeling weird and dizzy. I took my blood pressure and it was 100/60. I quit taking my medicne and it came up to low normal levels. I did this for a couple of months. I felt wonderful for the most part. I also have some angina which is another topic, but that was better, really gone during my strict period of eating this way.

I got tired of the limited diet and am taking my medicine agan and eating other things. However I am going to experiment a lot more. I believe the lack of salt may have been a huge factor in this. I did start adding some salt (celtic sea salt) to my watermelon, canteloupe and a couple of fruits I lie it on. MY BP came up a liittle but still was in normal ranges.

I think maybe adding foods with very large amounts of omega 3's to the fruit diet will keep it low. I forgot to mention that I added raw veggies about halfway in to the diet and it stayed low. There aren't enough calories though without making fruit the main part of your diet wthout adding cooked starches, etc. I still have more research to do on it. But, I don't think anyone who goes on an all fruit (eating plenty is important) diet with no salt will have high blood pressure. It may take a couple of weeks to clear the blood, I am not sure.

There is a book by Dr. Doug Graham called the 80 10 10 diet. He eats this way and has for I believe 30 years. He is an athlete, so it is possible to be healthy. He does not take supplements and councils other athletes who desire to eat this way.

I would prefer to eat a wider variety, but I am glad I know this option til I figure it out.
Marjorie

[alive]

Wow, Marjorie. 210/110 ! That's pretty extreme.
Is this like a genetic condition?

A nd yes, I also think pretty much anything can be healed/cured by avoiding toxins and eating properly. Nothing else needed.

But its a pain in the butt to keep up such a diet in the modern world, unfortunately.

[Marjorie]

It is awfully high. It may be genetic. I didn't know my biological father, but I do know he died from at heart attack at 50, Yikes

My BP was even higher than that in the hospital once. They called it a supra (not super) hypertension crisis. I was in a lot of physical pain though. They did a cat scan of my head and neck because they were afraid I would bleed with it so high. But everything was okay. They tried different meds and none would bring it down except clonidine which lowers the adrenal stress hormones. I guess I could have adrenal issues cause my mother did too. She didn't get high BP til she had to take prednisone for Temporal Arteritis(not arthritis).

I do get tired of real restrictive diets. My husband can eat anything and still have good BP and cholesterol. He has the constitution of a bull. t isn't fair, I guess if I didn't have the problem I wouldn't help find the answer. So, I guess it is my mission to help ll of the other genetically or whatever challenged people like me.

[alive]

It is awfully high. It may be genetic. I didn't know my biological father, but I do know he died from at heart attack at 50, Yikes

My BP was even higher than that in the hospital once. They called it a supra (not super) hypertension crisis. I was in a lot of physical pain though. They did a cat scan of my head and neck because they were afraid I would bleed with it so high. But everything was okay. They tried different meds and none would bring it down except clonidine which lowers the adrenal stress hormones. I guess I could have adrenal issues cause my mother did too. She didn't get high BP til she had to take prednisone for Temporal Arteritis(not arthritis).

I do get tired of real restrictive diets. My husband can eat anything and still have good BP and cholesterol. He has the constitution of a bull. t isn't fair, I guess if I didn't have the problem I wouldn't help find the answer. So, I guess it is my mission to help ll of the other genetically or whatever challenged people like me.

Supra Hypertension, holy smokes!

Have you had any luck with lysine + vit C. I guess not?

Maybe you want to consider giving the Mukta Vati a try.
It might help a little bit, who knows. I don't want to make promises. All I can say is that it works wonders for myself and my father.

[Marjorie]

Thanks, I probably will try it. I know there are many causes, so it probably corrects some of them that are related. Everyone can only try. I am not so desperate about BP as I used to be. I had it for years, building all the time, but I was scared to take the drugs, go to strange doctors. And my first experience lived up to my nightmares. I'll spare you additional details. But, I am that much more determined to keep my health care in the hands of doctors I choose when necessary, but mostly in my own--with as many smart advisors as I can get!

I'm glad it works for you and your dad!

Marjorie

[Frank]

Marjorie, your story is amazing.
Did you lose much weight while you were on the 80/10/10 diet? How long were you on it?

I tried most of the different types of diets maily low cal, bread, Atkins and Paleo. None of them lowered BP (except Atkins a little due to its diuretic feature). What did reduce BP was the diet associated weight loss. So I am wondering if the 80/10/10 reduces BP or weight.

I never heard about the 80/10/10 diet before this afternoon reading your post. Did a quick check on the internet. The potassium to sodium ratio is about the highest of all the diets I know of. This does promote BP lowering. But to the degree of your results is amazing.

My Mukta Vati solution has crashed to some degree. Without the prescription diuretic my BP held down for a while but then it rose significantly. I decided to take 1/2 diuretic and cut out the ACE Inhibitor. I increased the Mukta Vati to the 6 tabs per day. My diastolic is now up to 84. I am not optimistic. But maybe it takes a while to work fully. I have only been taking it for about 9 days. It has worked well for Alive so I guess everyone is different.

[Cis4me]

If it's an adrenal type issue, could niacin and/or niacinamide along with vitamin C help?

[Marjorie]

Hi Frank, The dramatic lowering of pressure had nothing to do with weight loss because it happened too fast. Also, my blood pressure without medicine was always that high whether I was real thin or chubby. Most recently I have weighed more in fact because of the side effects of Cymbalta, an antidepressant I was on that I never should have been on. I quit taking it cold turey 4 days ago. No big problems. So, I guess the exra lbs. will come off but it isn't necessary in order to bring blood pressure down. Of course I don't know if someone were actually obese, t may matter then, but I think it would still work.

I think you are on to the whole reason it works with the potassium/sodium ratio. I also think the fruits hydrate the cells much better than water. That is just my guess, but I have read that true dehydration of the cells isn't easily remedied by drinking water. The fruits seem to do it. I did notice some extremely strong feelings of well being shortly into the diet. Kots of energy. But, that feeling kind of waned although the blood pressure stayed consistently very low. I did notice if you forgot to eat regularly or would fast for a day the BP would creep back up. Probably because you were liberating fat and toxins from the cells.

Are you thinking of trying it Frank? If you do, I don't know if the initial juice fast is necessary, but I do know I would sit down and eat a LOT of watermeon, or cherries or whatever. I didn't try to limit it. I was able to find a lot of organic, but not everything. I don't think that will matter as far as blood pressure.

Cis4me, were you talking to me or Frank about the niacin? If it was me, I did buy a big bottle of the Flush Free 500 MGS. I have taken it to make sure it agrees with me and it does. I haven't taken it enough, nor do I now how much to take for lowering blood pressure or dilating blood vessels, that would be good if it dilates vessels. Why would you think of it in connection with adrenals? I am just trying to add to my knowledge on it and I didn't know the adrenal connection.

Thank you both!

[ofonorow]

I'll try this again. (I hate MS Vista..)

This discussion reminded me of a great article in the latest TOWNSEND LETTER FOR DOCTORS AND PATIENTS, Aug/Sep 2008, VOl 301/302, page 79 Cancer, Pancreatic Enzymes, and Politics: An Interview with Nicholas Gonzalez MD.

While I have followed and promote the "pancreatic enzyme" approach, I largely ingored one part of the protocol because it seemed too complicated, that is, until I read that Dr. Gonzalez takes it very seriously.

An important part of the Kelly/Gonzalez protocol is that different people eat differently. The food that might be appropriate for one person may be entirely inappropriate for someone else. Kelly developed a system he called "metabolic typing" and according to Gonzalez "We have ten basic diets and about 90 variations, but it is still basically the ten diets that Kelly used going on 30 years ago."

Question: How did Kelly determine the diets?

NG" Kelly first did it by trial and error. When he first started, he kind of came out of the Gerson mode, he thought everyone should be a vegetarian. His wife at the time got really sick on the diet and almost died. Turned out she was a genetic meat-eater. He put her on red meat three times a day, and she really turned her health around..."

There is a questionaire, but its now gotten to the point that Dr. Gonzalez knows what types get what kind of cancers, so if you have breast cancer, he knows your probable metabolic type and what your diet should be.

I bring this up because if people do exist on a range between pure vegan to the other extreme of pure meat eater, we cannot expect a diet that happens to work for someone will work for us.

Sound like Margorie was on to something. I suggest reading the Gonzalez interview, and perhaps googling Kelly metabolic typing for more information.

[Marjorie]

I am defintely going to google that Owen, thanks. It makes sense. I have studied and studied both sides, meaning "very low fat vegan" and "low carb, high fat, high protein omnivore" Both sides have produced compelling studies that absolutely prove their point. In fact, last night I had written a very long post requesting help in figuring it out on one of the curezone forums I frequent. The high fat group do have to forego sugar, transfats and even complex carbs and whole grains, and must eat very little fruit. They can eat plenty of leafy greens and low density veggies.

So, I guess you're saying there are many more perfect diets for certain individuals than those 2. I would like to pick the one I like best

Anyway, thanks for telling me about it. You may have saved my sanity! I just couldn't find a hole in either scenario!

[Frank]

I must admit I am having difficulty finding consise Kelly Metabolic Typing websites. The principle itself appears to be true but complicated. Sure, no one diet can satisfy all. But I found that all modern diets work for reducing weight. The problem has always been maintenance.

I am looking for another step or another connection. You see, until was in my late forties and early fifties I had no problems. If fact I hardly had to go to the doctor up to that point. Then I wanted to give some blood to the blood bank and was told to see my doctor about high blood pressure (185/120). That was when I started to diet, exercise and research diets.

I believe that as we age, our absorption changes. And by not the same amount for all nutrients so that the balance of nutrients changes. So, the nutrients that kept me in balance and BP normal, no longer do so. The question now is, which nurients are down and which are normal? Unfortunately I don't know. Reading literature about this hasn't realy helped. One says this, another says that. A lot of them actually do improve BP, but marginally. Maybe the answer is to do it all. But unfortunately this is impossible because the list of things to do is so large. If one reads the ingredience in MV as one example, it has about 8 herbs, all needed. Imaging trying to gather all of them individually. An uphill battle. Except for prescription drugs I haven't found the answer yet. I don't feel that prescription drugs is a good solution. Might never find the right solution, but will look into the 80/10/10 more deeply. The problem here I think might be Vit B12.

As an interesting point about the sodium/potassium connection. When I found out about how sodium increases BP, I cut out all salt from my diet (except what is in the food itself) and my BP dropped quite well. Unfortunately it rose after a while. Don't know why because I am still on a low salt diet. I tried the other side. I supplemented potassium chloride and it did nothing. Maybe it all needs to be in food. Maybe its like "fruits hydrate the cells much better than water" that you mentioned , Marjorie.

[Cis4me]

I thought about the possibility using niacin (I can't remember who mentioned it) when someone mentioned adrenalin from reading about the work of Abrhm Hoffer and his use of niacin/niacinamide and ascorbic acid for his psychiatric paitents. It seems he noticed some interesting "side-effects" after having used it for 50-odd years in thousands of paitents.

I thought this paragraph from the link below was very interesting:

It is possible the beneficial effect of niacin is not due to the cholesterol effect but is due to a more basic mechanism. Are elevated cholesterol levels and arteriosclerosis both the end result of a more basic metabolic disturbance still not identified? If it were entirely an effect arising from lowered cholesterol levels, why did Clofibrate not have the same beneficial effect? An enumeration of some other properties of niacin may one day lead to this basic metabolic fault. Niacin has a rapid anti sludging effect. Sludged blood is present when the red blood cells clump together. They are not able to traverse the capillaries as well, as they must pass through in single file. This means that tissues will not receive their quota of red blood cells and will suffer anoxemia. Niacin changes the properties of the red cell surface membrane so that they do not stick to each other. Tissues are then able to get the blood they need. Niacin acts very quickly. Niacin increases healing, as it did with my gums. Perhaps it has a similar effect on the damaged intima of blood vessels.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_cardio.html

note: niacin = nicotinic acid (causes flushing, lowers (normalizes??) cholesterol etc.)
niacinamide = nicotinamide (no flushing, no effect on cholesterol but does have all the other benefits of niacin)

[whitney357]

I am 25 years old a college student and I went to the doctor to ask about blood pressure. Doctor told that it was too high. Though high blood pressure is going on with our family history but it wasn't a problem last time. I am a bit of a stress person. Some on told me that it is a problem of hormones that affect blood pressure? I am looking for the best advice to control my blood pressure. Plz advise me.

[sharonstar]

Marjorie,
I am also very impressed if you were able to get off blood pressure medicine with diet. From experience I know that eating fruit and vegetables and leaving off any processed foods will lower the blood pressure but I have never been able to get off any medication. I took diovan for 12 years and it simply quit working. Now I am taking clonidine 3 times daily and also an ace inhibitor. Even the low carb diets don't lower the blood pressure for me. One of my doctors put me on clonidine because of a BP crisis and my family doctor said it is so hard to get off due to the rebounding. I have been taking the clonidine for 5 months so you definitely give me hope. Thanks for sharing your story. My next doctor's appointment is in 3 weeks and I would love to get off these drugs.

The vitamin c and lysine has kept my carotid blockages from progressing but I can't see that it has had any effect on my blood pressure. But who knows? Maybe the bp would be worse if I didn't take the vitamin c and lysine. I'll never know because I will never stop it.

Sharon

[Frank]

I have done some tests on my diets. For example I tried the 80 10 10 diet to reduce my blood pressure. It did that, but only for a while and returned to where it was, more or less.

After Owen suggested to increase magnesium, I did that and also worked (for a while). Then it returned to where it was before (more or less).

I had a blood test a couple of weeks ago. The sodium reading was 143 mmol/L (135 - 145). The potassium reading was 4.0 mmol/L (3.6 - 5.4). The interesting thing is that my blood test results were pretty much the same 11 years ago. My current sodium intake now is about 700mg/day and potassium intake is about 5000mg/day. My intake 11 years ago was more standard - 2000 to 3000mg of sodium and probably 3000mg of potassium. Blood test results were virtually the same.

I have read that the body keeps these 2 minerals in fixed proportions by excreting the mineral that is high. This takes some time. This mechanism explains why my blood test exhibit similar results with totally different intakes of these minerals and my BP returns to similar readings. This mechanism works for other minerals as well. I believe that magnesium and calcium are also balanced by the body in this way as well.

I also note that my sodium reading is close to the maximum normal range and potassium is in the minimum normal range. Maybe this is contributing to my high BP. Maybe the key is to change the balance. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that and I have never read about being able to change it.

So far the only reliable methods (besides drugs) that I have found have been lowering weight and exercise.