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 Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in 
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Post Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Hi Dr. Fonorow, I have been writing to you since last 2007.. I actually told you about this already.. Anyway, my husband was diagnosed with an 80 blockage on his LAD and about 50% on other arteries last July 2007 using only a CT angio.. He didn't want to do an actual angiogram coz he didn't want doctors to open him up or put a stent on his arteries coz he believe that he can reverse his condition.. Before the diagnosis, he wasn't getting any chest pains but he was always weak and didn't have any energy..
He started with the Vitamin C treatment and other vitamins.. At the beginning he was taking up to 23,000mg of Vitamins C ( He was taking about 6 scoops of Ascorsine ) per day and other vitamins.. But when he started getting bowel problems we had to taper it down, now he takes 3 scoops of Ascorsine ( per day and other vitamins like unique Vit. e, Tocotrienol, fish oil, coconut oil, CoQ10 100mg, optimized carnitine, B complex, Lipoic acid, Vit K2 (mk7), L arginine, Usana multi vitamins and usana chelated minerals)..
When he started the vitamin supplementation his energy has gotten so much better, he's no longer weak and I would say his total well being has gotten better.. He works out three time a week.. Before he starts his actual work out, he walks around our village.. What we can't understand is at the beginning of his walk he would get a chest pain, and his heart rate will not even go up, or sometimes if its happens in the middle of his walk, suddenly his heart rate would drop (from 105bpm to 79bpm) and he will get a chest pain.. He would just stop for a bit and the pain will disappear fast.. Then when he starts with his actual work out and I mean this is a hard work out, he uses gymnastic rings for pull ups, dips and other things and there his heart would pump and his heart rate would go up and he wouldn't get a chest pain at all..
He still does not want to see an allopathic doctor coz he knows that they will scare him.. I have spoken to some naturopath doctors and they say that it has nothing to do with the blockage anymore but the electricity of the heart.. His last stress test said "incomplete right bundle branch block"..
we would appreciate very much if we could hear from You or somebody who has had or who have the same experience like my husband.. We are at a lost right now.. Going to the hospital is our last resort since we don't want the traditional cut and open treatment..
Thanks You So Very Much


Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:07 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
First, some basics. Increase magnesium (at least 300 mg, and more if possible), and make sure that he is not getting more than 2 mg daily of manganese. Double or triple the CoQ10.

In our decade long experience, as detailed in my book, http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/ relapses invariably occur when the vitamin C dosage is reduced. (Or at the same dosage, if people gain weight. See: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7593&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=dosage+stupid) Have him try taking smaller amounts of vitamin C (ascorsine), more frequently, so that he may increase the daily amount of vitamin C.

Otherwise the regimen seems excellent. How old is your husband?

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Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:25 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Quote:
Increase magnesium (at least 300 mg, and more if possible), and make sure that he is not getting more than 2 mg daily of manganese.


Don't you mean 2G (Grams) 2000mg? NOTE:magnesium!!!!

The Multi's he's taking have some Mag in it not much but needs to be added in total.

Make sure he spreads his coconut oil and fish oil at least 4 to 6 hours apart!

Question: Does he start coughing when he has those expisodes of low Heart Rate???

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Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:23 am
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Thanks for your replies:-) My husband just turned 57 years old this month. He's 5'10" and weights about 147 lbs.. He used to be 135 lbs last year but that was the time that he was taking lots of vitamin C.. We had to taper it down since he really gets loose bowel.. He still takes about more than 10,000mg of Vitamin C now and a little bit higher than that he gets loose bowel..
Last 2008 we went to United States and had his blood tested from Life Extension.. His CoQ 10 results came out to be very high, it was 5.96 ug/ml (normal was 0.37 to 2.20). That time he was taking about 200mg of COQ10 and after we saw the results we tapered it down to just 100 mg.. Is it bad to have a very high COQ10 in the blood?? Anyway, his recent blood test (Nov. 2009) wasn't that bad either, his total cholesterol is 200.40 mg/dl (normal 130.77- 200.00), LDL is 157.70 (normal 0.00-150.00), HDL is 42.31 (34.61-65.38), triglycerides 72.89 (40.00-161.00), glucose 79.81 (74.72-107.10), CRP 0.59 (0.00-5.00), ferritin 119.90 (16.4- 293.9), Fibrinogen 366.2 (180.0 -350.0), homocysteine 8.41 (5.9-16.0), HBA1C 5.5 (4.27-6.07)..
I checked the USANA chelated minerals we take and yes it has Manganese 1.25Mg per tablet and he takes 3 tablets of those a day.. We will taper it down to just 1 tablet / day.. Before he was taking transdermal Magnesium Coz I read that Magnesium is better absorbed if it's applied transdermally.. He gets the magnesium gel for massage, he soaks his feet from the flakes and sometimes we spray the oil on the skin.. Lately he stopped the magnesium because we read that magnesium is not good for people who are parasympathetic from the metabolic typing diet and he happens to fall on the parasympathetic type of people.. Nevertheless, i will put it back.. Are tablets better than applying it transdermally??
Sometimes the drop in his heart rate happens after the pain and vice versa... But remember, when the heart is pumping to over 100 bpm he doesn't get any pain at all. It only happens at the beginning of his walk..And it is not accompanied by coughing.. His takes his coconut oil with his breakfast and his carlson fish oil at night..
We would appreciate a reply from anybody... I am sure, there are somebody out there who maybe experiencing what my husband is experiencing now and we would appreciate very much your input...
Thank You so Very Much


Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:29 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Two things that indicate something is going on is with his weight and Vitamin C consumption to bowel tolerance figure’s out to be 150mg/kg Generally a healthy individual will reach bowel tolerance between 75 to 100mg/kg this could vary daily however it’s an attention getter.
Next is his Fibrinogen being on the high side. I’m not familiar with the measurements they used, normal lab ranges are 1.5-3.1 g/L. However the ranges you gave indicate High. Fibrinogen is a,” Acute Phase Reactant,” This means that fibrinogen levels may rise considerably in a condition that causes inflammation or tissue damage which could be anything. So this is telling us something is not right here. We know he’s getting occasional angina but it’s not classic. His CRP levels are good also so we need to look further.
Something that keeps popping into my head is teeth! Is he having any problems with his teeth or gums?
You said: “He happens to fall on the parasympathetic type of people.”
I’m familiar with the Parasympathetic nervous system could you explain what is meant by,” parasympathetic type of people.”

Owen is more familiar with the different types of magnesium then I’am Surely he can set you right on this.

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Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Hi Johnwen, Thanks for your reply.. Yes, his fibrinogen suddenly went up from his last blood test that was done May of last year.. I am associating it also from this thing laser light that's suppose to thin the blood. It's called laser chelation therapy.. It's done here in my country and they claim it's suppose to give oxygenation to the blood but I think it does the opposite.. We cut it off starting today since he uses the laser twice a day 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes before bedtime.. I think his condition should improve already..

He's got very healthy teeth and gums.. In fact he only got a filling (composite) last year on just one tooth.. Considering his age the dentist was really impressed.. I am the opposite though, am all filling and even root canaled.. Anyway, before the vitamin C supplementation his gums used to bleed a lot but that doesn't happen anymore after all these Vitamin C.

We found out about this metabolic typing diet from Dr. Mercola's website and we took it.. You will have to answers lots of questions and from there you will be given an answer on which category you fall on.. They will tell you what factors controls your metabolism and it will express the degrees of your metabolic imbalance. In his case he's determined as "Parasympathetic dominant" which means his metabolism is being controlled mostly by a system known as the autonomic Nervous system. Parasympathetic dominant type are also protein type. His type do poorly on vegetarian diet and he needs lots of good fats to basically acts as fuel to his body.. If they eat lots of carbohydrate it will worsen their condition. Ideally, you should be a balance of Sympathetic and Parasympathetic to achieve optimum health..

My husband was a vegan for 10 years and he got out of that diet 10 years ago.. When he was a vegan he was very scrawny and had no energy.. He shifted to eating meat 10 years ago but even then he never pigged out on meat in fact until now he doesn't eat pork.. His diet is mainly organic chicken, lots of small ocean fish, raw veggies and cooked veggies and lots of supplements.. If ever he will eat rice which is very seldom, it will have to be red rice or brown.. he has not eaten white rice for 2 decades already. He drinks fresh wheat grass everyday and he doesn't smoke nor drink. sleeps early and has very normal BP 110/70.. He meditates and is now just trying to be a farmer to get out of the rat race.

Basically he tried to lived a very healthy life style that his friends called him a weirdo since his lifestyle was just so different from the rest. After all of these thing that he has done he still found out he had blockages on his arteries and that was really a shock to him to us... He will definitely go for an alternative treatment.. His life has always been that.. But we are at a lost right now and any info on his condition or help will be greatly appreciated..

Thank You so very Much:-)


Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:31 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
As far as I'm concerned after reading this on their website this diet plan has no creditability and is nothing but a ploy to discredit supplementation.
I won't recommend this to my worst enemy.
This guy is so far off base it's sicking.
If I had a copy of this book it would end up in the garbage can!
These are my beleifs and I would like to know if anybody ever survived his reccomendations?

Quote:
MYTH: Everyone should take calcium (or vitamin C, or anti-oxidants, etc.).
REALITY: Nothing could be further from the truth. Through Metabolic Typing, we know that any nutrient can have opposite effects in different Metabolic Types. This is why a nutrient can help correct a condition in one person, have little or no effect on another person, or worsen the same condition in a different Metabolic Type.
Thus the old adage, "one’s food is another’s poison." This is why you should only take those supplements that are right for your Metabolic Type. Every nutrient raises or lowers up to 9 other nutrients in your body. So taking therapeutic doses of vitamin C can actually, for example, cause cancer (vitamin C lowers copper, so if you are already deficient in copper and take high therapeutic doses of vitamin C, you can seriously compromise your immune system).

MYTH: Drink lots of orange juice to help get rid of a cold
REALITY: Colds and flus are viruses and viruses thrive in an alkaline biochemical environment. Citrus juice, because it is such a highly alkalinizing food, is one of the worst things you can ingest to prevent and fight off a cold or flu virus. Interestingly, cold weather produces an alkaline shift in the body.

Please read this.
http://ourhealthcoop.com/coop_corner_fe ... theory.pdf

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Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:59 am
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Hi Johnwen, Thanks for your reply and for the website.. That was very informative:-) Interestingly, when you mentioned that vitamin c lowers the copper in the body.. Actually, a little more than a year ago we had our hair analysis done and mercury and copper were both very very high.. We took out all the copper pipes we could take out in our house because we know that that is one source of copper we ingest in our bodies. We also takes zinc since from what I read, they are the mitigators of copper.. We just had our hair analysis done again last week and I hope that we have not depleted ourselves of copper yet..

Do you have any idea what would be the effect of a very high CoQ10 in human's body? From what I read, it could cause heart burn too..

Any comments on the transdermal magnesium??

Reply would be greatly appreciated:-)


Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:04 pm
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Vitamin C Expert
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
vividus wrote:
Actually, a little more than a year ago we had our hair analysis done and mercury and copper were both very very high.
Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities
by Andrew Hall Cutler, PhD, PE
© 2004, 2008, 2009
http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html

Examples of mineral content of various body substances on a common basis, mcg/g
http://www.lymebook.com/hairmineral.htm


If I were him I would immediately stop taking these:
alpha lipoic acid, chlorella, glutathione, cysteine, cilantro, BAL, DMPS, DMSA, DMSO, EDTA, MSM, NAC, copper, manganese, iron, selenite, vinpocetine, histamine H2 blockers, GHB (gamma hydroxybutyrate), Acetaminophen, and Ibuprofen. This information is from the book Amalgam Illness (1999). On page 138 of that book you will find this:

Andrew Hall Cutler wrote:
Lipoic acid is sometimes recommended for the heart. DO NOT USE IT FOR THIS PURPOSE if you are mercury toxic!!!!!!! It will move mercury all over the place and make you incredibly sick! You have to use it in a careful and controlled manner as a chelating agent at the appropriate time!

vividus wrote:
Any comments on the transdermal magnesium??
What brand is it? Some are purer than others. I think Dr. Mark Sircus' website has links to one of the purer brands. I can search my records for one of the purer brands if you want.


Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:00 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Thanks Van (< He's very well versed on Heavy Metal's)

Here's another good copper site also.

http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/coppe ... ndrome.htm

Quote:
His diet is mainly organic chicken, lots of small ocean fish


There's a lot of talk about mercury in fish products, mostly from Northern Ocean waters.

CQ10 High= Lower Blood pressure, slightly Lower Blood Sugar, Stomach upset, Restlessnes all of these go away within 24 hours of lowering intakes.

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Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Thanks Van:-) and Thanks Johnwen:-)
It feels so good to know that there are good samaritans out there who just want to help:-) I will be for sure checking on the web sites you posted:-) Right now I get my transdermal magnesiums from this web site: http://www.magneticclay.com.. It was recommended by Mark Sircus from his book Transdermal Magnesium Therapy.. Looks like am on the right track on the Magnesium:-)

Wow, after what you have said about those supplements to avoid, I just realized that my husband had a lot of those especially when he was doing the EDTA chelation therapy... He would even get a glutathione injection before the EDTA and he had about 30 treatments of those aside from Plaxex treatment ( Phospatidylcholine Injection) .. He also took lots of Chlorella and we ate a lot of Cilantro..We also took DMSO... Wow, made me realized did we do everything wrong?? What about the 'Waiora Natural Cellular defense"? Is that bad too?? Am taking that right now for my mercury since I had all my amalgams taken out..

Hi Johnwen, Yes, I am aware of the mercury from the fish that's why I try to eat small fishes only since they say they don't contain Mercury as much as larger fishes.. Also, thanks so much for the info on high CoQ10, I always thought that it is actually better to have high CoQ10 not a low CoQ10..

I will still be awaiting for suggestions from you and from anybody who could hep us solve this puzzle.. We know that there's just a link missing.. We are doing everything we think is right..We are very determined and disciplined.. We couldn't go wrong right??

Thanks:-)


Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:43 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Trying to digest. You are getting good advice. To me, anyone who suggests cutting back on magnesium raises a red flag. I now start recommending at 300 mg daily after once not giving the amount, having the person take 3000 mg, and then wound up on the floor from "low blood pressure" leading to fainting. Magnesium will lower blood pressure and make the heart beat regular. Magnesium is vital for correct operation of the heart (and manganese can interfere by substituting for magnesium within the heart) Check all supplements for manganese. Can take up to 60 days after stopping manganese (< 2 mg) before heart beat becomes regular.

I am not familiar with that one form of chelation you mentioned, but let us know if things get better after stopping it. You may have to experiment with anything that seems questionable. Stop it and see what happens. But do not stop vitamin C, and perhaps shoot for 1000 mg of magnesium (need less if more absorbable , e.g. a chelated form)

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Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:15 am
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Post Re: Heart rate drops when walking then chest pain comes in
Thanks Dr. Fonorow,

Checked all his supplements and I found out one of his supplements has 10mg of manganese on one tablet... We hope, we are starting to unlock this mystery already..

Thanks so much for always taking time to answers all our queries:-)

Best of help to you and the rest of the forum members:-)


Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:14 pm
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